How can the culture be changed with Dubas still in charge?

[DarkKnight]

I am told Leaf Dubas added grit because the fanbase demanded grit. Unfortunately it was the wrong grit, but let's give it another go by starting with Simmonds. Sigh.

We’ve lost grit with Hyman and Bogo, curious how he addresses that.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I am told Leaf Dubas added grit because the fanbase demanded grit. Unfortunately it was the wrong grit, but let's give it another go by starting with Simmonds. Sigh.

And I like Wayne but a) he didn't really contribute much after his injury which was early. And b) we see how vets get played - all the time no matter what.

 

[Trapper]

And I like Wayne but a) he didn't really contribute much after his injury which was early. And b) we see how vets get played - all the time no matter what.

None of these guys are changing the core.
Simmonds on the 4th or Bogo bottom D doesn’t matter.
The issues lies with changing the engine dynamic.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Via a trade.

Players don't change

Really? Because they produced fine in the playoffs under a coach who knew how to line match

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Really? Because they produced fine in the playoffs under a coach who knew how to line match

Pat Quinn ?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Produce in playoffs

The Leafs

Two things that don't belong in the same book, let alone the same paragraph

 

[Captain Crunch]

A change can begin with a simple move, a nudge.

A change, to be effective, shouldn't be a revolution, where you divide but never conquer the resistance. The resistance will always be there waiting for an opportunity.

I'm not sure who needs the nudge, is it Matthews or marner or can it come from the ranks?

Dubas isn't on the ice, but he can determine who is available to be on the ice.
Keefe can't determine who is available, but he can determine who gets the minutes, I think he can influence more than Dubas.

The only problem with that is I think Keefe likes to do what he thinks Dubas wants.

 

[capfit9]

get more people from the soo

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

It does strike me as very weird how aggressively Dubas is standing behind his core group of players. How many other GMs across all sports have stated multiple times that they are willing to bet everything on their core players? Especially with such little reason to have complete faith in them. I'm not even saying he's necessarily wrong to bet on them (he probably is), but it's just bizarre

 

[Captain Crunch]

Thank you for this. The culture is fine... our core is still young, they are being battle hardened. If JT doesn't get KO'd in game 1, period 1 then we likely sweep the Habs and are having a much different conversation about the exact same roster.

So they lose JT and lose that game, then win the next 3, but then lose the next 3 in typical Leaf fashion, and you’re saying it was because we lost JT? Sorry, I’m not buying it. They choked once again!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Play-off losses are a result.

They are a result, but not the only result, even within the context of playoffs. And nothing about that result suggests the make-up of our team to be faulty.

Right, and it’s hard to build a competent supporting cast when you have to nickel and dime it

We have built a competent supporting cast though.

 

[kb]

I don't think I've ever seen our fanbase force us into a good trade, but I certainly remember watching Murphy get boo'ed out of town and the bring back Wendel banners beside me in the arena.

Exactly. Fans are at times their own worst enemy.

 

[supermann_98]

Better, smarter fans who don't overreact at every turn will change the culture.

Yeah it's the fans intelligence and overreaction that causes this team to choke every year

 

[ToneDog]

It does strike me as very weird how aggressively Dubas is standing behind his core group of players. How many other GMs across all sports have stated multiple times that they are willing to bet everything on their core players? Especially with such little reason to have complete faith in them. I'm not even saying he's necessarily wrong to bet on them (he probably is), but it's just bizarre

My guess is that he is hearing it in the media and from the fan base. As such he has to continue to defend his position. Gonna be hilarious seeing him die on that hill.

 

[Dreakmur]

They are a result, but not the only result, even within the context of playoffs. And nothing about that result suggests the make-up of our team to be faulty.

They are THE result.

Repeatedly losing suggests the make-up is faulty.

 

[capfit9]

beta's, emo's, literally's....

this thread has it all.

rose colored glasses, take them off

 

[Captain Crunch]

They are a result, but not the only result, even within the context of playoffs. And nothing about that result suggests the make-up of our team to be faulty.

We have built a competent supporting cast though.

Simmonds was okay before his wrist injury, but was not the same player when he returned. And Thornton’s best days are way behind him. He never should have been on PP1, and should have been a healthy scratch many times, as Simmonds should have been also.

 

[Dreakmur]

We have built a competent supporting cast though.

So why do they fail over and over?

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

It does strike me as very weird how aggressively Dubas is standing behind his core group of players. How many other GMs across all sports have stated multiple times that they are willing to bet everything on their core players? Especially with such little reason to have complete faith in them. I'm not even saying he's necessarily wrong to bet on them (he probably is), but it's just bizarre

I think that's more about deflecting criticism to him. I think he has area's he could improve, but he seems to be very much a players GM. Maybe that will be ground out of him over time, but he seems to stand up for them and support them. We just need that to translate into the players doing more for him.

Marner needs to prove he can be the player, he's paid to be. Matthews is paid fair value, Tavares is paid market value, Nylander is on a decent deal. I'd love if they all took less, but when they took those contracts and structured the cap around them, no one planned for a pandemic creating a flat cap. It makes judging contracts hard, sometimes I feel like the Leafs are just cursed, because had those three been signed two years earlier, we'd be laughing about it, two years later and the flat cap is a factor, but no we signed them at the time right before the world goes to shiat.

 

[Gallagbi]

If a management group is interacting with the fanbase to the extent that you are supposing - presumably on the Internet, I would suggest they have bigger problems than just negativity. There’s no way organizational policy can be linked to fanbase chatter.

Funny this is the actions I remember were primarily pre-Internet. I think this Era has largely taken so much hate (and through decades) that it is expected.

The rush moves that really hit home to me are the Murphy boo'ing and bring back Wendel movement that cost us Lou

 

[kb]

I always like a fast food analogy. The fanbase can ask for onion rings but it’s up to the cook to make it properly.

Good analogy. Here's mine.

This fanbase orders onion rings, then immediately starts yelling into the kitchen telling the cook how to do his job, and finally throws them all over the floor in disgust because they hate the cook.

 

[barilko05]

The North was playing regular season shinny which the Leafs love to play. Only the Habs were built for the playoffs and hence why they were able to dust the Leafs and Jets off in 7 straight games once they got their shit together. Sorry I am not optimistic Dubas can fix this over the summer. This team needs to take a step back in order to take two steps forward but they are in win-now mode so it won't happen.

Give it a rest! The Habs got where they did because of a) Carey Price and b) game management by the refs to the nth degree come playoff time....in every series, not just theirs. Not because Ben Chiarot and Jon Merrill are the second coming of Larry Robinson and Guy Lapointe.

 

[ToneDog]

Give it a rest! The Habs got where they did because of a) Carey Price and b) game management by the refs to the nth degree come playoff time....in every series, not just theirs. Not because Ben Chiarot and Jon Merrill are the second coming of Larry Robinson and Guy Lapointe.

Yup Weber, Chariot, Edmundson and Petry had nothing to do with it. It was all Price and of course the refs. Got it.

 

[supermann_98]

looks like we're gonna run it back with the same group with no changes.

looks like another year wasted.

Gonna run it back with the same group minus the hardest working forechecker (only forechecker?) on the team in Hyman. That's a recipe for improvement

 

[The CyNick]

lol I was gonna say....those are the two guys he brings up to make his point?

Baffling. Like if Marner played with half the heart that Kuch does, Leafs would have been in the second round easily.