How can the culture be changed with Dubas still in charge?

[egd27]

Like or hate Dubas, if you were a player on the Leafs right now, you would want to run through a wall for him (if you give a single shit about winning).

And if you don't, I suppose you'd spot an inferior team 2 or 3 goal leads when you could eliminate them instead.

Walls are hard to run through after all.

 

[myleafs]

Maybe all they have to do is shuffle the lines a bit.

Kerfoot looked like a real player once he was paired with a real player.

marner was able to put up decent points with Bozak as his center.

Tavares has produced with everyone he's played with.

Add a replacement for Hyman.

I like the optimism, and I agree that its a good way to go if we are keeping things (players) mostly the same, but I doubt we see those kinds of shuffling.

 

[myleafs]

Dubas is sticking with what hasn't worked and trying to squeeze that square peg into that round hole come hell or high water.

He may sign or trade for some marginal players, but the changes go way beyond adding a player or two. The problem is the core group. Marner can't perform under pressure, he plays scared. It's like he's night and day when the games are actually important. Even Matthews has been trash the last two seasons when the games have mattered most.

I'll still watch, because I love the Leafs, but my expectations aren't like they were last season, they are now zero.

I mean this is it right? One way or another we will know what we have once and for all? The pressure is officially on, right from the start of the season. That in itself will make things pretty interesting whether we succeed or not.

 

[Dekes For Days]

They are the result that gets counted. All the rest are just fluff.

There are many results that matter for understanding your team, other than just playoff series wins and losses.

A few bit pieces don't matter.

If you're making a declaration about a certain make-up not being viable, you should probably have a decent sample of that make-up actually playing together.

In North America? Every: Boston, Philly, New York sports team and the Habs come to mind.

What young 20s superstar players have fans of teams in those cities run out of town?

 

[Dreakmur]

There are many results that matter for understanding your team, other than just playoff series wins and losses.

Less important results, sure.

If you're making a declaration about a certain make-up not being viable, you should probably have a decent sample of that make-up actually playing together.

Yeah, 6th time's a charm!

 

[Dekes For Days]

And this team missing the playoffs two years ago was what?

The team has made the playoffs in each of the past 5 years.

Anyone could have paid the 4 what they got it takes no skill at all.

And everybody would have.

This team has made 0 tough decisions since Dubas began.

Not even close to true. Dubas has effectively maneuvered some of the most difficult situations possible.

We're not even going to trade Riley for assets/ maybe an upgrade

You don't know the future.

Marner is getting a McKinnon and a Brodie worth of money

Marner is getting appropriately paid based on his pre-signing period, just like Mackinnon. Mackinnon is much older and has improved massively since he signed. Good thing Colorado fans didn't run him out of town earlier in his career.

 

[Lightsol]

Marner is getting appropriately paid based on his pre-signing period, just like Mackinnon. Mackinnon is much older and has improved massively since he signed. Good thing Colorado fans didn't run him out of town earlier in his career.

Man, the fanbase would have torn MacKinnon apart here. Being told you were getting a bonafied franchise player, and then having it take 6 years before he was anything more than a good 2nd line center?

 

[myleafs]

I'm not sure what some are expecting him to say?

He doesn't trust the core players but he's stuck with them and isn't in a good bargaining position with other teams.

"I'm looking to dump player-x, I don't think he performs well under pressure."

He signed these guys, maybe overpaid on some, but even if you reduce marner's salary to $9mm cap hit would that make him play better?

Take that extra $2mm and sign a Holl level defenseman?

At this point term is irrelevant and shouldn't impact performance.

He signed them, but he didn't draft them. His drafts really start with Sandin.

How about he just say I will do everything I can to make the Leafs better with the goal of winning the cup. Isn't that what we all want to hear and should expect? Why does he have to paint himself into a corner with "we can and we will" and "as long as I'm gm xplayer will not be moved" or more recently stating that he likes what he sees and is not changing course even though so far that course hasn't worked. He creates a space that needs to be defended and upheld because of the certainties of his statements. Its unnecessary imo

 

[myleafs]

Honest question, let's say your boss say his really unhappy and might can you. Do you function better and can you really perform to your absolute best?

Those hockey players are 0.0001% of human beings that can play in this league. It's hell of a run to get there and you have to be your best everyday to keep yourself on that level that people are expecting you to be. I think they are paid handsomely for that, but players are still human and basic leadership dogmas are good here too. Whip gets you somewhere, but how I have seen it usually trust gets you way farther.

This is special market with this f***ing moaning and scrutiny. Waddell just f***ed up with Nedeljokovic and Sakic will be in trouble to keep his core together so they can compete next season, because they're window is getting smaller after MacKinnon sweetheart contract. All teams have these problems and they support their core, but they don't have to go to newspapers because their fans aren't moaning idiots and can take this as business and entertainment not as religion like we do. If people could take their head out of their ass look around this league and realize that there isn't team that dances around everything without troubles and wins every friggin trade. Nashville has experienced GM, good taxation and still that organization can't get it done. Tampa Bay rebuild 15 years before winning and has that tax advantage.

Every GM makes mistakes and every team has hard times in this cap world. You can't change your whole core in this sports and on those rules, so it's better to follow good leadership dogmas because once you start pushing people they might not react the way you expect them to react. If you make your 11 million guy to feel uncomfortable or suffer he might not play to his best abilities.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Less important results, sure.

Less important to your emotions as a fan, but not less important to understanding the team you have.

Yeah, 6th time's a charm!

Except we have not had our current make-up for really any of those.

 

[Captain Crunch]

There are many results that matter for understanding your team, other than just playoff series wins and losses.

If you're making a declaration about a certain make-up not being viable, you should probably have a decent sample of that make-up actually playing together.

What young 20s superstar players have fans of teams in those cities run out of town?

They don’t, because their team can win a round or three in the playoffs.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner is getting a McKinnon and a Brodie worth of money

Dubas is to blame.
When a player negotiates like that you bridge or trade

 

[Dreakmur]

Less important to your emotions as a fan, but not less important to understanding the team you have.

You have far too much faith in statistics that haven't even been proven. There's a new stat every month, and it's always the one that's going to lead people who don't understand the game to some kind of secret code to building a team. I'm sure this is the one!

Except we have not had our current make-up for really any of those.

Yeah ok.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You have far too much faith in statistics that haven't even been proven.

Statistics and analytics have proven to be valuable. That's why pretty much every team is investing in it. You put too much faith in past playoff series wins/losses with no context to tell you everything.

 

[rocketman588]

The team has made the playoffs in each of the past 5 years.

And everybody would have.

Not even close to true. Dubas has effectively maneuvered some of the most difficult situations possible.

You don't know the future.

Marner is getting appropriately paid based on his pre-signing period, just like Mackinnon. Mackinnon is much older and has improved massively since he signed. Good thing Colorado fans didn't run him out of town earlier in his career.

Losing in the play in to the playoffs is missing the playoffs.

MM makes more money then 90% of the league because Dubas is a clown

Are you going to cheer for the Sudbury wolves after he gets fired next year and bounced back to the OHL where he also has never won anything?

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Well you all here complaining about the dumbest shit.. Im pretty sure the management don't give a shit what u clueless emo fans think.. This team was one of the best teams in the nhl last year and you still got ignorant fans like u tryin to call for a culture change lmao. You all literally make this fanbase a joke. Just leave

Lmao!! If you don’t like our board why do you bother coming here? Obviously you’re going to see varied opinions…secondly “battle hardened” is a cop out…you get battle hardened the first 3 times (mind you I don’t want the team blown up just pointing out the stupidity of your comment here)

 

[BertCorbeau]

This thread has derailed into too much bickering,
I’m closing it