How are you feeling about Tavares these days?

[mikeyz]

https://x.com/Donschallenge/status/1749159565227151853?s=20

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

If im not going crazy doesn’t he have a bit of term remaining on his contract? I’m not losing sleep it’s not like we resigned him on another extension. Just put up with him while he is still here he has a no movement clause anyway (?) it is what it is the team has bigger issues the a sole individual player

 

[Ports]

It was quite obvious at the time that years 6 and 7 of that contract would likely be rough ... that's the free agency gambit. They squandered his best years with the Leafs' and are now trying to get whatever they can out of him.

That being said he is unlucky as well. Only shooting 7.5%, well below his career 12.8% .. if he's at his career mark this season he'd have 8 more goals and be sitting at 20, near PPG. Worth $11 million? Nope. But still quality production.

Shooting percentage isn’t just a function of luck. Tavares isn’t getting into high danger areas with the puck enough and ends up taking too many low percentage shots. Just like he over handles the puck and gives it away more often as he gets easier to defend against. When he was younger he could get away with things he can’t get away with anymore.

 

[Ports]

Tavares is a soft leader. He's aged out/over priced and a big reason as to why this season and the next are a waste of time.

Leafs need to move on from him.

Is he even a leader at all? I’ve seen no evidence of that. He is definitely soft though.

 

[Ports]

You ever see Tavares sitting on the bench staring straight ahead while someone on his team is getting beaten on and hurt?

What kind of message is he sending to everyone? Because he is sending a message. It just so happens to be the wrong one.

I cant believe the Leafs chose this guy to represent their team.

Zero personality. Zero charisma. Zero inspiration.

Zero success.

He shouldn't be Captain with that pacifist carefree attitude. A team takes on the identity of it's leaders. A group of donkeys led by a lion can defeat a group of lions led by a donkey.

Pretty hard to intimidate the opposition when the team gets bullied every game and the Captain doesn’t even bat an eye.

The fact that he’s still wearing the C is an inditement on the whole organization.

 

[Ports]

Had a chance to change the cap structure this offseason and we doubled down on it

That’s because hiring Shanahan was the first mistake they made. His goal is Jersey sales not Cups.

 

[ZEBROA]

Take him away from Nylander ASP!

 

[Stephen]

I’ve noticed he’s really sacrificed his body to get into traffic, take a beating and be more aggressive lately, since probably the Edmonton game. But the plays just aren’t coming yet. Had some moments around the net vs Vancouver and Seattle.

 

[JKG33]

Is he even a leader at all? I’ve seen no evidence of that. He is definitely soft though.

He was the leader of the joke of an Islanders franchise, but considering he's worn a C at nearly every stop in his career I'll defer to the coaches on that one. There's probably something to it.

He's still another in the long list of soft Leafs players that have the losing stench on them

 

[JT AM da real deal]

credit where credit is due. No better gaslighting snakeoil salesman and bullshitter in the game than dubas

Yep dead straight .. his wife actually told my wifes best friend (they were neighbors on wateska in LP 2 houses away from each other) that they loved da neighborhood and school .. but dubie was not happy for quite some time with board .. i think he was at odds with Larry/Shanny for longer than we were led to believe .. anyways when he finally said it publicly he already had things lined up with Pitt .. da whole affair was complete BS and managed

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Shooting percentage isn’t just a function of luck. Tavares isn’t getting into high danger areas with the puck enough and ends up taking too many low percentage shots. Just like he over handles the puck and gives it away more often as he gets easier to defend against. When he was younger he could get away with things he can’t get away with anymore.

To be fair, Tavares is top 10 overall in expected goals (both 5 on 5 and all situations). Matches the eye test because I can't count how many times I've said he'll never score again after he missed a glorious opportunity lol

But yeah, his play overall hasn't been good at all. A lot of plays die on his stick and he does take many bad quality shots. He treats the puck like a hot potato. Needs to be much better.

 

[KingJoffrey]

Next year will be so horrible. Even if Matthews score 80 change of making to playoffs will be very slim.

System is dry. No single good D who could step in and play #5 minutes.

They need to trade or let Marner walk, trade UFA's for assets and start building roster again. Retool ala LA kings who kept Kopitar and Doughty.

 

[arso40]

Next year will be so horrible. Even if Matthews score 80 change of making to playoffs will be very slim.

System is dry. No single good D who could step in and play #5 minutes.

They need to trade or let Marner walk, trade UFA's for assets and start building roster again. Retool ala LA kings who kept Kopitar and Doughty.

I would sign him to whatever percentage of the cap Willy got in the summer or look to move on from him I’m not sure if I even want him to take it or not I want to keep him for sure but next year will be tough I expect jt to get even worst but atleast he’ll be off the books DO NOT resign him no matter what he wants unless he’s taking 4 mil and I honestly hope he doesn’t take that keep the 3 musketeers and get a second line center or winger and slide Willy in the middle I think it’s time easier to justify his pay with him in the middle

 

[Notsince67]

Next year will be so horrible. Even if Matthews score 80 change of making to playoffs will be very slim.

System is dry. No single good D who could step in and play #5 minutes.

They need to trade or let Marner walk, trade UFA's for assets and start building roster again. Retool ala LA kings who kept Kopitar and Doughty.

You don't let the 7th highest scorer in the last 5 years walk in his prime lol.
You want to retool, you trade Willy before his NTC kicks in but that is pretty dumb too.
JT isn't going anywhere BTW

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Yeah getting rid of Marner would cripple this franchise. What the hell are these HF posters even talking about?

 

[notDatsyuk]

You don't let the 7th highest scorer in the last 5 years walk in his prime lol.
You want to retool, you trade Willy before his NTC kicks in but that is pretty dumb too.
JT isn't going anywhere BTW

Same problem with JT and Mitch - they put up points but don't help us win, especially in the playoffs.

Willy's NTC has already kicked in.

 

[GoonieFace]

Yeah getting rid of Marner would cripple this franchise. What the hell are these HF posters even talking about?

Letting him walk doesn’t make sense. Trading him for assets does. Giving him $13 mil/year also doesn’t make sense, which I guess is going to be the ask.

Having 4 players make $40 mil hasn’t worked, having 3 players make $40 mil is insanity.

 

[FerrisRox]

HUHHH

Knies would murder him in a race. It wouldn’t even be funny.

I would put my money on Tavares in that race. I've been very surprised by Knies skating.

 

[FerrisRox]

But his stats from 2018 till now exceed his average from rookie year to 2018. He's been as advertised.

If you think he has been "as advertised" you are not being honest about how people were talking at the time of signing John Tavares.

There was much talk here about how the Maple Leafs were going to set league records on their powerplay.

The reality is, while you claim Tavares has exceeded point totals from before the signing, the truth is, John Tavares has produced at *below* a point-a-game as a Maple Leaf.

This is his sixth season as a Maple Leaf and he has only had one season where he was over a point-a-game and that was his first year in Toronto. So five of the six years since he signed the deal, he hasn't even been over a point-a-game. For $11 million a season, I think the Leafs figured, worst case scenario, the first five years of the contract he would definitely be over a point-a-game and he's not.

I don't see this as being "as advertised" at all. The truth is, right now, John Tavares is 17 points below a point-a-game pace as a Maple Leaf. You're not being honest if you're claiming that is as advertised.

 

[-DeMo-]

If you think he has been "as advertised" you are not being honest about how people were talking at the time of signing John Tavares.

There was much talk here about how the Maple Leafs were going to set league records on their powerplay.

The reality is, while you claim Tavares has exceeded point totals from before the signing, the truth is, John Tavares has produced at *below* a point-a-game as a Maple Leaf.

This is his sixth season as a Maple Leaf and he has only had one season where he was over a point-a-game and that was his first year in Toronto. So five of the six years since he signed the deal, he hasn't even been over a point-a-game. For $11 million a season, I think the Leafs figured, worst case scenario, the first five years of the contract he would definitely be over a point-a-game and he's not.

I don't see this as being "as advertised" at all. The truth is, right now, John Tavares is 17 points below a point-a-game pace as a Maple Leaf. You're not being honest if you're claiming that is as advertised.

so in 5 years previous Tavares has 354 points in 360 games so he's missed expectations by what 11 points? 2-3 points a year and he would have met those expectations?

 

[FerrisRox]

so in 5 years previous Tavares has 354 points in 360 games so he's missed expectations by what 11 points? 2-3 points a year and he would have met those expectations?

Sure, if you want to pretend that when the Maple Leafs signed John Tavares their expectation was that he would only be a point-per-game player.

But I would have to ask, if the expectation was that he would only produce at a point-per-game despite being paired with the high end offensive weapons that Leafs had, why on earth did they pay him $11 million a season?

Seems pretty obvious they were expecting more than that, no?

 

[Fogelhund]

Since joining the Leafs, Tavares is 19th in goal scoring, and 25th in points. That's pretty good production, and gives the Leafs one of the best one-two C punches in the league. You are always going to have to overpay in Free Agency, that's just one of the features of it....

Have we got value for the contract?

I mean, I look in Capfriendly, and see what his comparables are...Tavares is 13.84% and end up with contracts ranging from 15.27% to as low as 10.06%... Scheifele signed at 10.18%... which is quite a bit lower, and he's produced about the same... then again.. Kopitar has produced about the same and signed at 14%.

It certainly wasn't an egregious contract, but we didn't get value above the contract either.

Bottom line, we signed one of the top C's available in Free Agency in a decade, who switched teams, paid for it, and it didn't get us to a Cup.

Now the challenge is... is the current play a complete regression, how far will his play fall off, and at what price could you extend him?

 

[-DeMo-]

Sure, if you want to pretend that when the Maple Leafs signed John Tavares their expectation was that he would only be a point-per-game player.

But I would have to ask, if the expectation was that he would only produce at a point-per-game despite being paired with the high end offensive weapons that Leafs had, why on earth did they pay him $11 million a season?

Seems pretty obvious they were expecting more than that, no?

the salary is what the market dictated if we wanted to sign him hence what happens as a UFA. and you said they expected him to be over a point per game and again that's the difference of 2-3 points in each season would put him at that point. again if you want to claim that 20-25 points more over 5 season's is the difference between success and not meeting expectations.

they signed him to have the best 1-2 centers in the league. which only maybe Pittsburgh could make an argument to be on par with them and Oilers are probably better over those 5 years.

 

[JL17]

Since joining the Leafs, Tavares is 19th in goal scoring, and 25th in points. That's pretty good production, and gives the Leafs one of the best one-two C punches in the league. You are always going to have to overpay in Free Agency, that's just one of the features of it....

Have we got value for the contract?

I mean, I look in Capfriendly, and see what his comparables are...Tavares is 13.84% and end up with contracts ranging from 15.27% to as low as 10.06%... Scheifele signed at 10.18%... which is quite a bit lower, and he's produced about the same... then again.. Kopitar has produced about the same and signed at 14%.

It certainly wasn't an egregious contract, but we didn't get value above the contract either.

Bottom line, we signed one of the top C's available in Free Agency in a decade, who switched teams, paid for it, and it didn't get us to a Cup.

Now the challenge is... is the current play a complete regression, how far will his play fall off, and at what price could you extend him?

Kopitar does so much more then Tavares thou. You’ve got a Selke winning, first up on the PK first PP plays in all situations something Tavares doesn’t do.

If talking about a PPG Tavares comes to a loaded offensively talented team with the league goal scoring increasing every year and the he still doesn’t make it to point a game. I’d care to say he’s regressed considering he hasn’t moved off his totals from NYI.

 

[FerrisRox]

then again.. Kopitar has produced about the same and signed at 14%.

This would be relevant point if we were picking a hockey pool and the only thing that mattered was points.

The reality is, these guys are paid to play on a hockey team, and Anze Kopitar is extremely valuable and useful to his team even if he doesn't score at all because he's outstanding defensively.

There is absolutely no comparison between Anze Kopitar and John Tavares and I think you know that.