How are you feeling about Tavares these days?

[Larcos_Unal]

Pretty telling that in his entire tenure in NYI he got past the first round once. With Toronto? Same thing.

Based on numbers he's likely getting into the HOF but honestly if it comes down to JT or a guy with playoff pedigree/Cups on his resume, he's not getting in. Lack of post season success speaks very loudly to his abilities as a leader.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This is da single biggest problem on da team right now .. it is da 100,000 lb gorilla in da room .. yet our media are all bought and paid for by Rogers and Bell .. and JT is a great guy and no one wants to talk badly about him .. but you can't have ice tilted that badly every shift you are on da ice .. da LW switch has to happen ASAP

 

[Larcos_Unal]

This is da single biggest problem on da team right now .. it is da 100,000 lb gorilla in da room .. yet our media are all bought and paid for by Rogers and Bell .. and JT is a great guy and no one wants to talk badly about him .. but you can't have ice tilted that badly every shift you are on da ice .. da LW switch has to happen ASAP

Gotchu fam

SIMMONS SAYS: Is it time Leafs talk to Tavares about waiving no-move clause?

Simmons Says - the usual collection of thoughts, dots and shots, looking back at the past week of sports

torontosun.com

 

[Stephen]

Robidas Island would make more sense than a trade for a number of reasons, stay in Toronto, earn the paycheque. But unless he's playing with some injury no one knows about he's more cooked than injured.

July 1, 2025.

 

[Mess]

Next year when Nylander's new $11.5 mil AAV and Matthews new $13.25 mil AAV kick in with a rapidly declining Tavares still on the books and well as Marner's contract is going to create an epic CAP HELL situation unlike any team has ever faced in a Salary Cap world.

4 players in the top 11 highest paid players all on one team is a nightmare scenario, where someone will have to explain how paying your own players MORE money decreases depth further is a logical plan to make the Leafs more Cup competitive.

This year 44 games played 22 wins and 22 losses a perfectly average team can only get worse with the decline and contract of JT as more time passes.

Tavares is currently on pace for 22 goals and 63 points for $11 mil Cap usage.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Next year when Nylander's new $11.5 mil AAV and Matthews new $13.25 mil AAV kick in with a rapidly declining Tavares still on the books and well as Marner's contract is going to create an epic CAP HELL situation unlike any team has ever faced in a Salary Cap world.

4 players in the top 11 highest paid players all on one team is a nightmare scenario, where someone will have to explain how paying your own players MORE money decreases depth further is a logical plan to make the Leafs more Cup competitive.

This year 44 games played 22 wins and 22 losses a perfectly average team can only get worse with the decline and contract of JT as more time passes.

Tavases is currently on pace for 22 goals and 63 points for $11 mil Cap usage.

View attachment 807534

At this point in the Matthews/Marner/Tavares/Nylander/Rielly era it was supposed to be a dynasty, multiple late round trips and perhaps a couple of cups. All we have to hope for now is that they miraculously figure it out and win one before they start to decline. The legacy will be that of individual accomplishment and greed, selfishness and immaturity, rather than team success.

What separates us from the Tampas, Bostons, Pens is that those teams were balanced. Even though those teams didn't all have Vezina winners in net, they had contributions from the bottom of the lineup, they had strong physical D cores....we haven't had that in forever.

 

[Ports]

They know they don’t have a roster or core group that can challenge for a cup. It’s time to free up some cap space to retool around a core of Matthews, Nylander, Reilly, Knies and Woll. They should hang on to Benoit, Gregor and Jarnkrok because they are decent players and cheap. Marner while a great player will be too expensive and they need to add bigger, more physical players both up front and on the back end if they hope to beat teams like Boston or Florida in the playoffs. Gio who’s a warrior is too slow at 40, Brodie is no longer effective and Tavares can’t play 2C on a good team. Moving on from them is imperative and Tavares is pretty much untradable so will need to be moved to 3LW next season. If Woll can stay healthy a tandem of him and Jones might be a good enough cheap tandem for next season until JT’s $$ comes off the books. Somehow they need to trade Marner and get back at least a good 2C and 2LW if they can. A sign and trade similar to what Calgary did with Tkachuk is one possibility to a team of his choice who’s looking for a super skilled forward to play on their top line and quarterback their power play. The Marner vs Nylander debate is over now because they chose Nylander. They can’t have three skilled but soft forwards earning $37M+ because they’ve tried allocating their cap space so unevenly before and know it doesn’t work. The first step is to replace Shanahan with someone who knows how to build a team that will contend for a cup not just throw money at star players who sell jerseys. Hopefully Pelley has been brought in to do that. A new President might bring in a new GM who brings in a new coach and certainly Keefe’s days will be numbered if they miss or flame out early in the playoffs. For those Leaf fans who put all the blame on the coach or new GM, they are missing the point. This core group was never going to get it done in the playoffs and eight years of counting on them to do it is more than enough patience shown by management. It’s time to cut bait and move onto to a new team blueprint. The future can look bright if they’re courageous and smart and learn from their past mistakes. Minor changes around a failed core group has not got it done and never will.

 

[ToneDog]

He's been bad but he won every faceoff in the Canucks end with our goalie pulled last night.

 

[PromisedLand]

11 AAV and .... ranks 68th among all forwards for even strength points production

how should one feel? dude can't even keep up with the pace of the game and is playing center.

Dubas has screwed the Leafs so hard its gonna take time to undo dubas' bullshit

 

[BertCorbeau]

11 AAV and .... ranks 68th among all forwards for even strength points production

how should one feel? dude can't even keep up with the pace of the game and is playing center.

Dubas has screwed the Leafs so hard its gonna take time to undo dubas' bullshit

View attachment 807567

It was quite obvious at the time that years 6 and 7 of that contract would likely be rough ... that's the free agency gambit. They squandered his best years with the Leafs' and are now trying to get whatever they can out of him.

That being said he is unlucky as well. Only shooting 7.5%, well below his career 12.8% .. if he's at his career mark this season he'd have 8 more goals and be sitting at 20, near PPG. Worth $11 million? Nope. But still quality production.

 

[ToneDog]

11 AAV and .... ranks 68th among all forwards for even strength points production

how should one feel? dude can't even keep up with the pace of the game and is playing center.

Dubas has screwed the Leafs so hard its gonna take time to undo dubas' bullshit

View attachment 807567

Everybody knew JT's skating would decline as he aged. Prett sure the plan was to win a cup or two before he went off a cliff but thanks to Shanny's decision to hand the keys to a rookie GM, that did not happen. Now we are probably f***ed for the rest of this season and probably next.

 

[PromisedLand]

It was quite obvious at the time that years 6 and 7 of that contract would likely be rough ... that's the free agency gambit. They squandered his best years with the Leafs' and are now trying to get whatever they can out of him.

That being said he is unlucky as well. Only shooting 7.5%, well below his career 12.8% .. if he's at his career mark this season he'd have 8 more goals and be sitting at 20, near PPG. Worth $11 million? Nope. But still quality production.

Dubas effed it all up the moment he gave the ridiculous RFA deals to matthews and marner; and a hail mary with goalies and D-men with a sprinkle of petans, malgins and what not.

You said Leafs squandered the opportunity in JT's earlier part of the contract? Yes I agree with it. Instead I'd replace Leafs with Dubas. Dubas ruined everything for the Leafs not only in terms of contracts, but also cap composition, team structure and assets. Its a complete crapshoot right now

 

[Gallagbi]

Dubas effed it all up the moment he gave the ridiculous RFA deals to matthews and marner; and a hail mary with goalies and D-men with a sprinkle of petans, malgins and what not.

You said Leafs squandered the opportunity in JT's earlier part of the contract? Yes I agree with it. Instead I'd replace Leafs with Dubas. Dubas ruined everything for the Leafs not only in terms of contracts, but also cap composition, team structure and assets. Its a complete crapshoot right now

Had a chance to change the cap structure this offseason and we doubled down on it

 

[DitchMarner]

Yeah, he's too slow now to drive play effectively, but I clearly remember that being the case way back in the late 2010s. I can't say I watched him too often or closely when he was an Islander, but he seemed like a player who had the hands and talent to create offense for himself and his teammates. I guess his speed really deteriorated after he nearly won the Art Ross in 2015.

He's a very good player, but I'm not sure he's ever justified his cap hit while with TOR. Maybe in that first season (47 goals), though if I remember correctly, Marner gave the guy a lot of easy goals with great feeds that season.

 

[PromisedLand]

Had a chance to change the cap structure this offseason and we doubled down on it

Marner's NTC had kicked in. Only avaliable play was trading Nylander. Apparently they did try to trade him but the return wasn't enough so they re-signed him instead of risking him walking as a UFA. But who the F would have paid Willy 92 million in 7 years (around 13 AAV) is f***ing beyond me as to how Tre was operating.

That said, 11.5 AAV signed asset for 8 years may still be in play as Nylander's NTC/NMC with new contract doesn't kick in until July 1st so it still could be done. I'd prefer trading marner but that ship has sailed.

May be Leafs and JT can come to an agreement where we Kucherov Tavares for the next season and let him be available for the playoffs while using his cap space for other things like gettting some D

 

[ToneDog]

Dubas effed it all up the moment he gave the ridiculous RFA deals to matthews and marner; and a hail mary with goalies and D-men with a sprinkle of petans, malgins and what not.

You said Leafs squandered the opportunity in JT's earlier part of the contract? Yes I agree with it. Instead I'd replace Leafs with Dubas. Dubas ruined everything for the Leafs not only in terms of contracts, but also cap composition, team structure and assets. Its a complete crapshoot right now

Dubas is a better snake oil salesman than a GM. He's set himself and his family up for life. The same family he did not want to put them through another year of hardship. LOL.

 

[PromisedLand]

Dubas is a better snake oil salesman than a GM. He's set himself and his family up for life. The same family he did not want to put them through another year of hardship. LOL.

credit where credit is due. No better gaslighting snakeoil salesman and bullshitter in the game than dubas

 

[Gallagbi]

Marner's NTC had kicked in. Only avaliable play was trading Nylander. Apparently they did try to trade him but the return wasn't enough so they re-signed him instead of risking him walking as a UFA. But who the F would have paid Willy 92 million in 7 years (around 13 AAV) is f***ing beyond me as to how Tre was operating.

That said, 11.5 AAV signed asset for 8 years may still be in play as Nylander's NTC/NMC with new contract doesn't kick in until July 1st so it still could be done. I'd prefer trading marner but that ship has sailed.

May be Leafs and JT can come to an agreement where we Kucherov Tavares for the next season and let him be available for the playoffs while using his cap space for other things like gettting some D

Marners NTC didn't kick in for a month. So Marner and Willy were options. Nobody is taking Willy at that cap hit now.

I can't imagine a 12 month layoff for a mid 30s player who struggles with speed is a good idea.

 

[PromisedLand]

Marners NTC didn't kick in for a month. So Marner and Willy were options. Nobody is taking Willy at that cap hit now.

I can't imagine a 12 month layoff for a mid 30s player who struggles with speed is a good idea.

Kucherov isn't one of the fastest skater in the league. JT will be effective IMO if he didn't go through the season's grind.

Expecting a new GM to come in and right away make moves is something I wouldn't expect. Trading Marner as far as I am concerd was not necessarily an option unless shanahan wanted to do it himself. That kinda trade takes time to work; its not EA Sports NHL where you just push X and triangle to make the deal.

Nylander at 11.5 may have some value to to some team out there if it comes to that.

 

[ToneDog]

Marners NTC didn't kick in for a month. So Marner and Willy were options. Nobody is taking Willy at that cap hit now.

I can't imagine a 12 month layoff for a mid 30s player who struggles with speed is a good idea.

Tre says he explored all options for Nylander and decided his best option was to sign him. I hope he makes the right decision one year later with Marner. Can you imagine them bowing out early and announcing they resigned Marner for $12.5mx8 on July 1st?

 

[Stephen]

Tre says he explored all options for Nylander and decided his best option was to sign him. I hope he makes the right decision one year later with Marner. Can you imagine them bowing out early and announcing they resigned Marner for $12.5mx8 on July 1st?

Moving forward with Matthews, Nylander and Marner, reallocating all of Tavares money to other stuff isn't necessarily the worst option to have second half of the 2020s.

 

[Gallagbi]

Kucherov isn't one of the fastest skater in the league. JT will be effective IMO if he didn't go through the season's grind.

Expecting a new GM to come in and right away make moves is something I wouldn't expect. Trading Marner as far as I am concerd was not necessarily an option unless shanahan wanted to do it himself. That kinda trade takes time to work; its not EA Sports NHL where you just push X and triangle to make the deal.

Nylander at 11.5 may have some value to to some team out there if it comes to that.

The period he was hired is the prime time to move big contracts, especially with term. PreUFA, after the season. He missed his window and clearly didn't understand the strengths and weaknesses of the team.

Tre says he explored all options for Nylander and decided his best option was to sign him. I hope he makes the right decision one year later with Marner. Can you imagine them bowing out early and announcing they resigned Marner for $12.5mx8 on July 1st?

Less options for Marner now with the NMC

 

[ToneDog]

Moving forward with Matthews, Nylander and Marner, reallocating all of Tavares money to other stuff isn't necessarily the worst option to have second half of the 2020s.

I wonder if it would be wiser to move on from Marner who's skating is not the greatest and can't handle the playoff grind mentally and physically. I can't see him surviving 4 playoff series in the same year.

I don't think
The period he was hired is the prime time to move big contracts, especially with term. PreUFA, after the season. He missed his window and clearly didn't understand the strengths and weaknesses of the team.


Less options for Marner now with the NMC

If I knew I could sign Ranta, I'd let Marner walk. Now if the Willie we have seen since he signed is the Willie we are getting for the next 8 seasons, it won't matter what we do with Marner.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

From the moment the contract was inked we all knew the last 2 years or so would hurt. The idea was that the team would be utterly top to bottom elite for the first 5 years. But during those 5 years Tavares had 1 elite year but otherwise put up his career statistics more or less. He didn't give us "value" on the contract, but lived up to what the expectations were at the time. As a player. As a TEAM is a different story.

The team was not the success it was supposed to be these past 5 years. We were supposed to be saying right now "Yeah, for these last two years of Tavares contract he's an anchor... but he lead us to 3 deep playoff runs and a cup." Without the success we saw as essentially inevitable, the contract just looks like a mistake top to bottom.

 

[PromisedLand]

The period he was hired is the prime time to move big contracts, especially with term. PreUFA, after the season. He missed his window and clearly didn't understand the strengths and weaknesses of the team.

One doesn't work on a trade like that in a jiffy it takes time to work on it. That pos dubas had plenty of time to do it and didn't do F all.

You can't expect a new GM to come in and make such a massive deal within a month. If a GM does that more likely than not he would get fleeced