Red Sox/MLB Hot Stove Part 2: Lockout Edition - 6 games lost, 156 to go

[EverettMike]

Well it's fairly easy if your number 1 priority is eliminating all people potentially associated with steroids. And going with the old homer ballot. Honestly Vizquel has similarities to Ozzie Smith and Luis Aparicio who are both hall of famers.

Honestly I have as big a problem with Kent who was one of the biggest bleeps in the game during his career, and I always had some doubts on other areas with him, and of course wasn't a good defensive player

Vizquel's defense is dramatically overrated and he doesn't belong in the same stratosphere as Ozzie Smith. (I can't speak to Aparicio's defense and how the two compare.)

 

[EverettMike]

Great breakdown of why Vizquel's defensive numbers aren't as impressive as they seem. And without that his resume is that of a guy who simply played for a long time without every being great. (For all his Gold Gloves he only made 3 All Star teams in 24 years, and got MVP votes once. He finished 24th.)

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/the-polarizing-hall-of-fame-case-of-omar-vizquel/

 

[EverettMike]

God there are so many excellent pieces on Hall of Fame candidates. Just incredible work out there free to read.

 

[BMC]

People need to be so careful about sharing thoughts, opinions and ideas nowadays.

Truly a sad time in our history.

This man just voiced an opinion about the performance of a guy who works in the literal "toy store" of life.

Dear Rob Manfred ---- you're simply not that important.

What you say is 100% correct and I could not agree with you more.

However how about the cowardice of MLB Network??? They could have told Manfred to f*** off but they chose to cave in instead. Moral midgets.

 

[08SeaBass08]

God there are so many excellent pieces on Hall of Fame candidates. Just incredible work out there free to read.

Any favorites?

 

[LouJersey]

God there are so many excellent pieces on Hall of Fame candidates. Just incredible work out there free to read.

Links for the lazy?

 

[EverettMike]

Fellas, I've shared two in this thread over the last week.

 

[N o o d l e s]

KBO MVP incoming

Robert Stock Signs With KBO's Doosan Bears

 

[CDJ]

KBO MVP incoming

Robert Stock Signs With KBO's Doosan Bears

struggled a bit in the majors, don’t know how he’s gonna do with a step up in competition

 

[22Brad Park]

MLB Network cuts ties with Ken Rosenthal, reportedly over criticism of Rob Manfred.....Don't bite the hand that feeds you I Guess

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

Why MLB's labor negotiations have gone nowhere -- and baseball's path back

“Earliest negotiations will ramp up this time is late January.”

 

[DKH]

Schilling likely to get around 50%

I don’t see anyone getting in

Ortiz & Rolen will be close

Ortiz first ballot if you don’t care or consider PED

I would put Bonds Clemens Manny & Ortiz in even though they are all users to me

I could argue for Wagner, Rolen, Helton, Jones, and Kent which probably means no

They are all so close but not obvious

obvious vs make a case I guess

Schilling should be in and I would not consider what he says but how he performed

Vizquel I never thought even before his domestic abuse charge

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

Just for reference of the known ballots.

 

[Smitty93]

Schilling likely to get around 50%

I don’t see anyone getting in

Ortiz & Rolen will be close

Ortiz first ballot if you don’t care or consider PED

I would put Bonds Clemens Manny & Ortiz in even though they are all users to me

I could argue for Wagner, Rolen, Helton, Jones, and Kent which probably means no

They are all so close but not obvious

obvious vs make a case I guess

Schilling should be in and I would not consider what he says but how he performed

Vizquel I never thought even before his domestic abuse charge

Ortiz is going to be interesting. The public ballot % is generally higher than the final vote %, so if Ortiz can stay above the 80% threshold on public ballots, I feel like he's got a good shot. His problem right now, which you can tell by the fact that Bonds and Clemens are both around 80% and have only added 2 net votes from returning voters so far, is that the people most likely to vote for him have already released their public ballots. He's going to need at least some of the voters with smaller ballots who don't usually vote for Bonds or Clemens to vote for him.

For Rolen, his public vote % has been 4-5% higher than the final vote the last couple of years and he's at 72.3% right now. If there's positive news for him, it's the fact that's he's gone 10.2% -> 17.2% -> 35.3% -> 52.9% and now it looks like he'll end up in the mid-60s this year. While he won't get in this year, he should eventually get over the 75% hump, just like Larry Walker did.

 

[CDJ]

People who don’t vote for Ortiz are absolute f***ing clowns. Guy was repeatedly coming up huge in some of the most memorable spots in playoff history. He dominated the regular season for almost 15 years. I do not care that he was a DH.

1st ballot to anybody with a brain. He is the definition of “fame”. One of the games most recognizable and beloved figures in the 21st century

 

[DKH]

Ortiz is going to be interesting. The public ballot % is generally higher than the final vote %, so if Ortiz can stay above the 80% threshold on public ballots, I feel like he's got a good shot. His problem right now, which you can tell by the fact that Bonds and Clemens are both around 80% and have only added 2 net votes from returning voters so far, is that the people most likely to vote for him have already released their public ballots. He's going to need at least some of the voters with smaller ballots who don't usually vote for Bonds or Clemens to vote for him.

For Rolen, his public vote % has been 4-5% higher than the final vote the last couple of years and he's at 72.3% right now. If there's positive news for him, it's the fact that's he's gone 10.2% -> 17.2% -> 35.3% -> 52.9% and now it looks like he'll end up in the mid-60s this year. While he won't get in this year, he should eventually get over the 75% hump, just like Larry Walker did.

Good information

I look at the players against their position and Rolen checks off so many as a third baseman

Ortiz with all due respect to Edgar Martinez is the greatest DH.

I think he misses for exactly what you wrote

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

Gregory Polanco signs with the Yomiuri Giants.

 

[Alicat]

 

[Alicat]

As of now it could be Papi and Clemens going in as Sox and Bonds going in as a Giant.

I hope they all roast Manfred if they get in

The link to the live tracker is in the tweet

 

[DKH]

Tony to busy to research

 

[McGarnagle]

Edgar was a more scientific hitter, with higher average and a significantly better walk rate. Papi was a slugger with better power and produced a lot more runs.

Both are great, both belong in the HOF. Papi had more playoff accolades and 3 rings, but Edgar had that 1995 Yankee series where he was just unstoppable and he got the walkoff.

 

[Alicat]

Tony to busy to research

He's been very consistent in his voting and reasons why.

Had Manny and ARod not gotten popped twice they would be in this year.

My thing with ARod is do we know when he started juicing? Was it right after he left Seattle to go to Texas or did it start in NY?

With Clemens it is obvious that it started after he put up his numbers in Boston. Papi was tested constantly and never tested positive. Manny put up huge numbers in Cleveland before coming to the Sox and then got popped after he left the Sox. He allegedly tested positive in the 2003 test survey but that was only used to determine if a drug testing program needed to be implemented.

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

He's been very consistent in his voting and reasons why.

Had Manny and ARod not gotten popped twice they would be in this year.

My thing with ARod is do we know when he started juicing? Was it right after he left Seattle to go to Texas or did it start in NY?

With Clemens it is obvious that it started after he put up his numbers in Boston. Papi was tested constantly and never tested positive. Manny put up huge numbers in Cleveland before coming to the Sox and then got popped after he left the Sox. He allegedly tested positive in the 2003 test survey but that was only used to determine if a drug testing program needed to be implemented.

If memory serves from the documentary "Screwball," ARod was juicing while at the University of Miami. His efforts went to another level after going to Texas.

 

[LouJersey]

Would be perfect for baseball to be in a lockdown and only elect roid using cheaters into the ball. Would be fitting.

I think Ortiz should get in but he should be taxed a year or more like bagwell and Piazza

 

[Alicat]

If memory serves from the documentary "Screwball," ARod was juicing while at the University of Miami. His efforts went to another level after going to Texas.

I'll have to check it out.

I've always thought he started juicing in Texas. He was good at the end of his time in Seattle but nothing like he was in Houston or New York,