Honest question....

[Racer88]

If they do crap out in the first round for the 7th year in a row there will have to be major changes. One of Matthews or Marner will have to go.
7 years of failures with this core make up will be enough for any management/ownership to swallow

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

If they lose in the first or even second round Dubas will be fired and the New GM will have to deal with signing these guys.

I can't believe ownership would even put them in position to have to possibly hire a new GM right when the Matthews contract extension needs negotiating.

They should have fired Dubas after the Tampa loss.

This whole lame duck situation is embarassing and has potential to blow up in a rather large way.

Could set the team back for years.

 

[Menzinger]

I'm not trying to say full rebuild. I don't want that either. I'd aim for win now pieces that are younger. That's what Florida did in the Tkachuk trade. The trade I have proposed in the trade board is Matthews for Byfield, Clarke, Iafallo, Roy. Leafs get two 20 year olds players that can be top of the lineup players in the next 2-3 years and they grab two roster players (for cap purposes) who can be above average in their position. You then run out (assuming Leafs re-sign all of Bunting/ROR/Acciari:

Bunting-Tavares-Marner
Iafallo-Byfield-Nylander
Knies-ROR-Jarnkrok
X-Acciari-Lafferty

I'd even take it 1 step further and send out Nylander to VAN for their 2023 1st (currently 8th), Garland and Myers. Vancouver wants to clear cap and appease Pettersson so he signs long term. This theoretically accomplishes both while getting the Leafs a top 6 winger (although divisive) in Garland and a top 10 pick in what has been hailed as the deepest draft since 2015. Myers expires in a year.

I'd only do the Nylander trade if the Leafs did the Matthews trade. Both trades come out cap neutral while netting the Leafs future assets (Clarke, 8th OA, Byfield) and current assets (Roy, Garland, Iafallo). Myers is just a cap throw in that the Leafs would eat in this scenario.

Fair enough, though personally I'm not a huge fan of those trades.

Byfield could be a bust, and and 8th overall pick is nice but could also end up as nothing. I think the team would probably try and go for more guys who'd be able to step in and compete right away at a high level if they were to make some shake up trades than guys who'd hopefully step up in the next 2-4 years.
.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Depends on the return

no, guttting the offense would be stupid

 

[Gabriel426]

What kind of question is that?

Why would the Maple Leafs rebuild and retool if they just won the Stanley Cup with this group?

That’s why I don’t understand why literally how each thread either players or a thread like this always end up with the idea that Leafs will lose and crash out and needs to rebuild/retool.

Save all these what if questions till after the playoffs.

 

[Superstar]

Marner at 12 is an overpay? Matthews at 14 is the true overpay

When players like Pastrnak gets $11.25 million, why should Marner get $12 million? Boston is not in a no state-tax state, so can't make that excuse like some folks like to make for players playing in Florida. Matthews shouldn't be paid more than MacKinnon, so $14 is definitely an overpayment.

 

[Americanadian]

Fair enough, though personally I'm not a huge fan of those trades.

Byfield could be a bust, and and 8th overall pick is nice but could also end up as nothing. I think the team would probably try and go for more guys who'd be able to step in and compete right away at a high level if they were to make some shake up trades than guys who'd hopefully step up in the next 2-4 years.
.

Realistically though how many teams would be looking at trading for the Leafs core players?

I think the market for Matthews is very small, especially because he has a NMC. You're probably looking at LAK, ARI and maybe DAL. I can't really see Arizona trading for Matthews if he indicates he wants to go there because they won't compete next year anyway. Dallas and LAK both make sense but Dallas' best trade piece is Johnston who might be better than Byfield. I doubt they give up Hintz/Robertson/Heiskanen.

For Nylander you're probably looking at NYR, DAL again, maybe VAN if you take back big salary, maybe Carolina but they don't like rentals. I doubt Nylander returns Johnston from Dallas so you're probably looking at a package around Stankoven or Bischel. Vancouver would probably do Garland, Hoglander+ but a package around the 8th, Garland, Myers is more enticing to me. NYR maybe offer Lafreniere but he's more of a bust than Byfield. Carolina probably wouldn't offer either of their defense prospects because they didn't include them for Meier. I'd assume Jarvis or Necas is a non-starter so there's not really a good trade fit there.

For Marner I have no idea who would take him at 11M. Maybe Buffalo? Quinn+Ostlund/Savoie would be a good start there. Maybe Nashville for a package around Tomasino, Askarov+ but I just don't see it.

 

[Racer88]

no, guttting the offense would be stupid

Depending on the return

 

[IPS]

I can't believe ownership would even put them in position to have to possibly hire a new GM right when the Matthews contract extension needs negotiating.

They should have fired Dubas after the Tampa loss.

This whole lame duck situation is embarassing and has potential to blow up in a rather large way.

Could set the team back for years.

Yeah there's definitely tons riding on this next playoffs for the Leafs.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Depending on the return

No it doesn't, if you can't score you can't win.

Realistically though how many teams would be looking at trading for the Leafs core players?

I think the market for Matthews is very small, especially because he has a NMC. You're probably looking at LAK, ARI and maybe DAL. I can't really see Arizona trading for Matthews if he indicates he wants to go there because they won't compete next year anyway. Dallas and LAK both make sense but Dallas' best trade piece is Johnston who might be better than Byfield. I doubt they give up Hintz/Robertson/Heiskanen.

For Nylander you're probably looking at NYR, DAL again, maybe VAN if you take back big salary, maybe Carolina but they don't like rentals. I doubt Nylander returns Johnston from Dallas so you're probably looking at a package around Stankoven or Bischel. Vancouver would probably do Garland, Hoglander+ but a package around the 8th, Garland, Myers is more enticing to me. NYR maybe offer Lafreniere but he's more of a bust than Byfield. Carolina probably wouldn't offer either of their defense prospects because they didn't include them for Meier. I'd assume Jarvis or Necas is a non-starter so there's not really a good trade fit there.

For Marner I have no idea who would take him at 11M. Maybe Buffalo? Quinn+Ostlund/Savoie would be a good start there. Maybe Nashville for a package around Tomasino, Askarov+ but I just don't see it.

Every team in the league would take Marner

 

[Clyde Brewer]

I’m not saying they need to lack top talent, I’m saying teams need to be built around the cap now and not a few good players. There needs to be a balanced lineup and paying 40 million to 3 players is a recipe for disaster.

I’d trade Marner right now for a lesser player like Brady Tkachuk. Why? Because of the cap hit. He’s likely 5 million cheaper than Marner’s next contract. Having a top heavy team leaves no room for the type of secondary players that win cups. No Nick Paul, artturi lehkonen or players like that - just one Mitch Marner and if he is hurt or not performing, there’s nobody else that can pick up the ball. My fellow leafs fans should have learned that by now.

if they pay:
Matthews 14-15
Marner 12-13
Nylander 10-11
Tavares 8
that’s 47 million in 4 players who are all fairly interchangeable with eachother. No #1 D, no proven goaltender, very little secondary scoring.. just a top heavy team in cap hell.

Buffalo has Cozens and Thompson for 7 and some change a piece, NJ has Hughes and Hichier for both under 8.5, Tampa has Point, Stamkos and Kucherov for all under 9.5. Why should Toronto even attempt to pay 40+ for the same group that has yet to win a playoff round?

Hockey is a team sport, not a race to see who can compile the highest paid top 3 forwards.

Yes sir!

I've been saying Marner for Tkachuk for a couple of years now.

Marner is a special player but that Brady is a unicorn. He'll be a 4p0 goal scorer and one of the most physical guys in the league-currently at a $3 million per year discount.

I can't help to think how much more effective Brady Tkachuk would be in the playoffs compared to Marner.

 

[Americanadian]

Every team in the league would take Marner

How many teams can fit in a $11M winger? Look at how small the market was for Meier.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

How many teams can fit in a $11M winger? Look at how small the market was for Meier.

#1 it wasn't small

#2 Marner is better

 

[francis246]

When players like Pastrnak gets $11.25 million, why should Marner get $12 million? Boston is not in a no state-tax state, so can't make that excuse like some folks like to make for players playing in Florida. Matthews shouldn't be paid more than MacKinnon, so $14 is definitely an overpayment.

Marner is just as good as Pasternak. Players have never been paid for playoff success ever in the history of sports. They earn their contracts based on regular season success and production, Its just the way things work. I personally thinkMarner should make 11 flat.

 

[TMLAM34]

How many teams can fit in a $11M winger? Look at how small the market was for Meier.

No it doesn't, if you can't score you can't win.



Every team in the league would take Marner

Literally my first thought.

 

[ACC1224]

Yes sir!

I've been saying Marner for Tkachuk for a couple of years now.

Marner is a special player but that Brady is a unicorn. He'll be a 4p0 goal scorer and one of the most physical guys in the league-currently at a $3 million per year discount.

I can't help to think how much more effective Brady Tkachuk would be in the playoffs compared to Marner.

That wouldn’t be very good for the Leafs.

 

[Racer88]

No it doesn't, if you can't score you can't win.



Every team in the league would take Marner

So basically you are saying that every team in the league without Matthews and Marner can’t score and are worse than the Leafs. What about the teams that have advanced beyond the first round in the last 6 years. What about the teams that have won the cup in the last 6 years without Marner and Mattews…….how did they do it

 

[Dekes For Days]

What about the teams that have won the cup in the last 6 years without Marner and Mattews…….how did they do it

Not by foolishly trading away their best players, that's for sure.

 

[Americanadian]

#1 it wasn't small

#2 Marner is better

The market for Meier ended up being CAR, NJD and VGK in the end. How many teams can you name that can fit in Marner?

 

[freshwind]

Not by foolishly trading away their best players, that's for sure.

making a hockey trade and balancing the cap is not foolishness ...
that applies whether it is matthews, marner, nylander, rielly or whoever
many care about the team, not the name on the back of the sweater

 

[Leafsfan74]

Trade them both if need be

This is the winner of this thread.

The problem is, the Leafs are a corporation. Marner is someone they market, sell jerseys and the game. They won't trade him barring a similar marketable player coming back. Nylander will definitely go first.

The irony of it is, if MLSE could win a Cup, regardless of the players on their roster; they would be worth a great deal more money and profits would skyrocket.

 

[ACC1224]

The market for Meier ended up being CAR, NJD and VGK in the end. How many teams can you name that can fit in Marner?

It’s different when players are dumped at the deadline

 

[Americanadian]

It’s different when players are dumped at the deadline

Just look at rosters for next season though and look at teams that can fit him and are trying to win and could also give Toronto what they would want. I can’t think of many - as I said earlier: maybe Buffalo or Nashville. Maybe Carolina.

Edit: Carolina could be a good fit. I could see them giving up Jarvis+Morrow for Marner. You’d just want some assurance that Morrow is going to sign.

 

[Dekes For Days]

making a hockey trade and balancing the cap is not foolishness ...
that applies whether it is matthews, marner, nylander, rielly or whoever
many care about the team, not the name on the back of the sweater

Every person here cares about the team over the name on the sweater. The difference is, most people can recognize the massive value our top tier players provide to the team, and don't want to foolishly throw it away for what ifs because we're cranky about past playoff outcomes. Our cap is balanced right now. We're a top tier team right now. And if we keep our best players, and don't completely destroy the current state of competent management, we're looking at another ~decade of being a top tier team with this core.

The chance of getting full value on "a hockey trade" for a Matthews/Marner caliber player and improving as a result of it is slim to none (which is why absolutely zero suggestions that would make us better have been provided), and pretty much only obtainable by fluking into somebody we acquire exploding into something unexpected post-trade. Voluntarily putting the future of the Leafs on that would be stupid.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Both will be gone if the Leafs get turfed in the first round Again. Let Tavares walk for nothing. Rebuild begins.