HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 1

overpass

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One thing that's mildly interesting to me is that Hasek has few garbage time goals and it had little impact on his GAA. He also fares the worst with 3rd period tie/lead management (this also shows up in Canada Cup '87 where he surrendered a 3rd period tie, he gives at least one of these up in the '88 Olympics, he loses a tie game with seconds left in the '91 Canada Cup to Finland, his only loss in the '98 Olympics was with a 1-0 3rd period, he gave up two goals in ten seconds in the 3rd to lose to Russia).

I started compiling data on 3rd period performance, tied, and with a 1 goal lead. I've finished Hasek but I don't think I'll get anyone else done. But since we're talking about this I may as well drop the data here.

DateTmOppDECGASASVTOI3rd Tied TOI3rd Tied GA3rd Up by 1 TOI3rd Up by 1 GA
1994-04-17BUF@NJDW0303060:00:00
19.9​
0​
1994-04-19BUF@NJDL2323059:29:00
13.0​
0​
1994-04-21BUFNJDL2262459:38:00
1994-04-23BUFNJDW3232060:00:00
0.5​
0​
10.1​
0​
1994-04-25BUF@NJDL4343059:09:00
4.5​
1​
1994-04-27BUFNJDW07070125:43:00
20.0​
0​
1994-04-29BUF@NJDL2464459:35:00
1995-05-07BUF@PHIL4312770:06:00
7.5​
0​
1995-05-08BUF@PHIL3242160:00:00
1995-05-10BUFPHIW1191860:00:00
19.0​
0​
1995-05-12BUFPHIL4272359:08:00
1995-05-14BUF@PHIL6302460:00:00
1997-04-17BUFOTTW1232259:57:00
1.2​
0​
13.0​
1​
1997-04-19BUFOTTL3292657:54:00
1997-04-21BUF@OTT1161535:33:00
1998-04-22BUF@PHIW2242260:00:00
2.9​
0​
8.6​
1​
1998-04-24BUF@PHIL3383559:56:00
7.1​
1​
1998-04-27BUFPHIW1323159:52:00
1998-04-29BUFPHIW1454459:57:00
1998-05-01BUF@PHIW2373565:40:00
15.3​
0​
4.7​
1​
1998-05-08BUFMTLW2484662:35:00
5.6​
0​
0.2​
1​
1998-05-10BUFMTLW3262360:00:00
0.2​
0​
1998-05-12BUF@MTLW4464281:18:00
20.0​
0​
1998-05-14BUF@MTLW1383759:55:00
1998-05-23BUF@WSHW0191960:00:00
1998-05-25BUF@WSHL3393663:01:00
15.1​
1​
1998-05-28BUFWSHL4302669:37:00
20.0​
0​
1998-05-30BUFWSHL2191759:45:00
2.6​
1​
1998-06-02BUF@WSHW1353460:00:00
15.6​
0​
4.4​
0​
1998-06-04BUFWSHL3383566:19:00
13.7​
0​
6.4​
1​
1999-04-21BUF@OTTW1414060:00:00
20.0​
0​
1999-04-23BUF@OTTW2474590:34:00
13.3​
0​
1999-04-25BUFOTTW0313159:55:00
1999-04-27BUFOTTW3434060:00:00
12.3​
0​
1999-05-06BUF@BOSL3211859:26:00
1999-05-09BUF@BOSW1292860:00:00
5.3​
0​
1999-05-12BUFBOSW2211960:00:00
2.9​
0​
10.4​
0​
1999-05-14BUFBOSW0242460:00:00
1999-05-16BUF@BOSL4262239:58:00
1999-05-18BUFBOSW2252360:00:00
1.1​
0​
1999-05-27BUFTORW2262459:44:00
19.5​
0​
1999-05-29BUFTORW2333160:00:00
1999-05-31BUF@TORW2222059:53:00
11.6​
0​
7.4​
0​
1999-06-08BUF@DALW2373575:24:00
5.9​
0​
5.6​
1​
1999-06-10BUF@DALL3302759:26:00
16.0​
2​
1999-06-12BUFDALL2292758:54:00
9.6​
1​
1999-06-15BUFDALW1313059:58:00
20.0​
0​
1999-06-17BUF@DALL2211959:07:00
1999-06-19BUFDALL25048114:49:00
20.0​
0​
2000-04-13BUF@PHIL3302759:12:00
5.6​
1​
2000-04-14BUF@PHIL2272559:34:00
4.8​
1​
2000-04-16BUFPHIL1262559:37:00
20.0​
2000-04-18BUFPHIW2282664:31:00
2000-04-20BUF@PHIL4363258:19:00
2001-04-11BUF@PHIW1323160:00:00
20.0​
0​
2001-04-14BUF@PHIW3353278:01:00
16.9​
0​
2001-04-16BUFPHIL3191659:06:00
11.1​
1​
2001-04-17BUFPHIW3333066:13:00
10.3​
1​
2001-04-19BUF@PHIL3333058:02:00
9.7​
0​
2001-04-21BUFPHIW0242459:51:00
2001-04-26BUFPITL3322960:00:00
2001-04-28BUFPITL2141258:43:00
8.2​
1​
2001-04-30BUF@PITW1201960:00:00
9.9​
0​
2001-05-02BUF@PITW2171560:00:00
4.7​
0​
3.2​
0​
2001-05-05BUFPITW2272568:34:00
8.7​
0​
2001-05-08BUF@PITL3333071:29:00
1.3​
0​
18.7​
1​
2001-05-10BUFPITL3282573:00:00
11.5​
0​
8.5​
1​
2002-04-17DETVANL4262273:59:00
11.1​
0​
8.9​
1​
2002-04-19DETVANL4191559:32:00
2002-04-21DET@VANW1232259:54:00
3.3​
0​
2002-04-23DET@VANW2242260:00:00
0.9​
0​
18.2​
0​
2002-04-25DETVANW0252560:00:00
2002-04-27DET@VANW4292559:56:00
2002-05-02DETSTLW0232359:34:00
2002-05-04DETSTLW2373558:51:00
0.7​
0​
2002-05-07DET@STLL5161149:26:00
2002-05-09DET@STLW3363359:50:00
1.5​
0​
2002-05-11DETSTLW0161660:00:00
2002-05-18DETCOLW3272460:00:00
1.3​
0​
11.4​
0​
2002-05-20DETCOLL4262262:17:00
12.0​
1​
2002-05-22DET@COLW1212072:41:00
14.7​
0​
2002-05-25DET@COLL3221957:00:00
0.8​
1​
2002-05-27DETCOLL2292766:24:00
19.1​
0​
2002-05-29DET@COLW0242460:00:00
2002-05-31DETCOLW0191960:00:00
2002-06-04DETCARL3262360:58:00
20.0​
0​
2002-06-06DETCARW1171660:00:00
14.9​
0​
0.2​
0​
2002-06-08DET@CARW24341114:22:00
8.8​
1​
2002-06-10DET@CARW0171759:58:00
3.7​
0​
2002-06-13DETCARW1171660:00:00
19.3​
0​
2007-04-12DETCGYW1201959:37:00
2007-04-15DETCGYW1151460:00:00
6.1​
0​
2007-04-17DET@CGYL3282559:02:00
4.1​
1​
5.2​
1​
2007-04-19DET@CGYL3211859:23:00
2007-04-21DETCGYW1242359:50:00
2007-04-22DET@CGYW1212084:20:00
20.0​
0​
2007-04-26DETSJSL2191758:32:00
2007-04-28DETSJSW2191759:56:00
17.2​
0​
1.4​
0​
2007-04-30DET@SJSL2272559:45:00
13.3​
1​
2007-05-02DET@SJSW2272575:40:00
0.6​
0​
2007-05-05DETSJSW1242359:48:00
3.8​
0​
2007-05-07DET@SJSW0282860:00:00
2007-05-11DETANAW1323160:00:00
13.5​
0​
6.5​
1​
2007-05-13DETANAL4332974:17:00
15.6​
0​
4.4​
1​
2007-05-15DET@ANAW0292960:00:00
2007-05-17DET@ANAL4221859:01:00
5.4​
1​
2007-05-20DETANAL2262471:48:00
0.8​
0​
19.2​
1​
2007-05-22DET@ANAL4292558:05:00

Data is excluding 1991-1993 and 2008, just the seasons for which he was the starter. Hasek's overall playoff GAA in these seasons was 1.96.

Hasek tied in the third period: 534 TOI, 17 GA, 1.91 GAA
Hasek with a third period one goal lead: 378 TOI, 14 GA, 2.22 GAA

Yes, Hasek's goals against were a little higher with a one goal lead. The difference between 2.22 GAA and 1.96 GAA over 378 minutes is about 1.5 extra goals against.

Hasek's team was 25-28 in playoff games that were tied at some point in the third, and 33-7 in playoff games in which they led by one goal at some point in the third.

Games where he allowed the opponent to tied the game in the third are below. His team was 7-7 in those games. Which I guess is about what we would expect from games that were tied late.


Overall? I'd like to have numbers from other goalies to compare, but Hasek's performance in these close 3rd period playoff situations basically matched his overall playoff numbers. Even the slight underperformance in holding 3rd period leads is basically all caused by the 2007 Anaheim series, when he was 42 years old.
 

BM67

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Yes, Roy had an advantage there. From 1985-86 through 1994-95, Montreal had PP opportunities against at a rate of just 86% of the league average. Roy took that advantage and rode it to four sv% titles and a 2nd place finish.

The Devils from 1993-94 through 2013-14 had PP opportunities against at a rate of just 82% of the league average (a greater advantage over double the period of time - statistically, this is a staggering difference), and with that advantage placed 3rd, 3rd, 4th and 5th in the NHL in save percentage.
So you think beating Peeters, Casey, Liut and Essensa for SV% titles is better than being 0.003 behind Hasek in a Hart season, and being behind two guys playing for Trotz and Lemaire coached teams, that played fewer minutes than Brodeur did on the road?
 

seventieslord

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So you think beating Peeters, Casey, Liut and Essensa for SV% titles is better than being 0.003 behind Hasek in a Hart season, and being behind two guys playing for Trotz and Lemaire coached teams, that played fewer minutes than Brodeur did on the road?
I think beating the entire NHL four times by margins as much as 7 and 8 points over anyone else is more impressive than that, yes. Are you saying it isn't?
 

MadArcand

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Dec 19, 2006
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How the actual f*** are guys like Ryan Walter playing 5 games out of 20, René Corbet and Pre-Prime Patrice Brisebois (!!!!!!!!!) raised as defensive difference makers?
1. Walter played 21 games in '89 playoffs, you're confusing the years.
2. How is Brisebois being listed as part of the top-4 making him a difference maker? I literally just listed the top-4s they played behind in each run for comparison's sake. And '93 defense is meh at best, and I have stated as much.
 

VanIslander

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Giving up goals when tied in the 3rd perriod is a TEAM STAT highly affected by the fact that before Detroit, Hasek didn't have the HHOF skaters to score clutch late goals. The Canada Cup? He was praised for simply keeping the games close!

No stat shows Hasek unreliable in 3rd periods, in clutch moments, in big game tied situations. Absurd.

He didn't have Beliveau, Richard, Harvey like Plante did; nor Howe, Kelly, Lindsay like Sawchuk did; nor renowned defensive coaching like Brodeur, nor Sakic, Forsberg like Roy.

Hasek played behind non-HHOFers for the vast majority of his career (Laffy for a bit in Buffalo; Jagr a bit internationally).

His situ is closer to that of Glenn Hall, who faced dynasty teams of loaded HHOFers as always the underdog, aptly first to ever get the Conn Smythe on a losing team. Hasek deserved it too, many thought in the Game 6 OT run ended against a HHOF-loaded Dallas team and bad refereeing.
 

Michael Farkas

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Giving up goals when tied in the 3rd perriod is a TEAM STAT highly affected by the fact that before Detroit, Hasek didn't have the HHOF skaters to score clutch late goals. The Canada Cup? He was praised for simply keeping the games close!
Ah yes, the old "it was everyone BUT Hasek" defense. I remember now. How silly of me.

A career worst 7 of these surrendered 3rd per. ties were with Detroit in 2002. 12 of 34 for his career were with Detroit in '02 and '07.

A career worst 4 of these surrendered 3rd per leads were with Detroit in 2007. 5 of 16 for his career were with Detroit in '02 and '07.

Surrounded by loser HOF players in Detroit or just barely scraping by with the only (well one of two, if Canada had NHLers) international threat to the Soviets in the 80's...no matter what, it's someone else. When it's Brodeur, it's everyone but him. Whether it's retirement age Scott Stevens, young Scott NIedermayer, or #1 d-men Paul Martin and Marek Zidlicky led by a team of 10x Selke winners Zach Parise and Ilya Kovalchuk...it's a TARP! And it has nothing to do with Brodeur.

Give up a 40 foot floater to Darius Kasparaitis to blow a series at home? The sun was in his eyes...also Woolley should have blocked it.

Just an endless stream of apologies...do the videos lie? Does my memory deceive me? I could have swore he gave up goals in his 50 year pro career. Maybe not haha

EDIT: Oh Christ, I didn't even read the post fully to realize that officials get blamed too. You can't make this up haha

Next time don't push a rebound out on a slow rolling puck to a player standing at the top of your crease and you won't lose lying on your face for no reason, slick...
 
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jigglysquishy

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Jun 20, 2011
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Plante and Sawchuk videos are great to see.

Sawchuk scrambling all the time. Howe trying to break up every pass that comes near him. Pronovost great at clearing the net front.

Plante is composed and very calculated. Always looks in control. Prevents rebounds really well.Harvey is constantly battling and just breaks up plays. Tom Johnson gets beat on the outside. Don Marshall jumping in front of these slapshots is crazy with 1960 equipment

Get a good glimpse at the different styles. Remind me of Hasek and Roy in a lot of ways.
 

VanIslander

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Hasek's 1st year in Detroit was his 20th year after his first full professional season in Czechoslovakia. How heavily are you seriously going to weigh that?

And for the record for you youngums: back in the late 90s, especially in the year Buffalo shocked the world with a cup run of nobody skaters, the NHL cracked down heavily on the then foot-in-the-crease rule, overturning several series-crucial goals, but in OT of Game 6 of the final, they suddenly made a noncall on a most blatant example of what they had been cracking down on?? It was talked about for months afterwards.

Hull's skate in the crease should have meant obviously a nongoal. Shocker: the team with 7 HHOFers cheered while the team with zero HHOF skaters but one HHOF goalie was denied a possible Game 7 opp.
 
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Michael Farkas

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Perfect response. He gets credit for his long spanning career...he gets credit for the top 5 Vezina and third team all star deal...I have a feeling that if he didn't lose three straight games to the Ducks, he would have gotten credit for getting to and/or winning the Cup. BUT...since he didn't, it's "oh, fiddle-dee-dee...that was just some old man"...who would continue to play in the NHL and then play in the 2nd best league in the world for the next few after that...

Back in the 1999, Buffalo did shock everyone...except Vegas, of course...they were 12:1 to win the Cup that year. 6th best odds in the league. Third in the East behind NJ and Philly.

"Well, that's based on the year before when they lost to Washington of all franchises in the ECF..."

They were 15:1 that year going in. 4th in the East.

I'm not saying Hasek wasn't willing that team to where it was going most of the time...but we don't need to continue to try to trick people into thinking those Sabres teams were the dregs of the planet...

Re: Further bellyaching over the Cup winning goal. It was definitely not the "most blatant" example of it...it wasn't even a good example of it.

Again, a very preventable goal in a big spot too...you plant corn/you grow corn.
 

seventieslord

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Beating Pang by 9 points isn't that impressive.
So if it's about the names and not the numbers, I guess we could talk about how many points he beat Belfour, Beezer, Barrasso, Fuhr, Joseph, Moog, Vernon, Richter, Hextall, McLean and Rainford by, then?
 

buffalowing88

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From an outside perspective, this is all very informative but at some point it becomes redundant. Why is the debate still going on? No one is changing their vote at this point. Move onto the next round already.

There's zero chance the voting doesn't go:
Roy
Hasek
Plante
Sawchuck

In order...the more interesting rounds are coming up, this is just a dress rehearsal. I'm more interested in the case for Cujo or Belfour coming up than any of this.
 
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Extremely small samples in highly specific situations, but maybe somewhat interesting still.
 

BM67

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So if it's about the names and not the numbers, I guess we could talk about how many points he beat Belfour, Beezer, Barrasso, Fuhr, Joseph, Moog, Vernon, Richter, Hextall, McLean and Rainford by, then?
If you want to talk about how impressive .914 is in 1992, then yes to numbers.

If you want to claim #1 in 1988 is better than #3 in 1997, then no to numbers. Pang is 3rd in GSAA in 1988, not a strong year for goalies.

1992 was the only season with any decent competition for the title.

Belfour: not in the top 10 any of the four years
Beezer: 10th 1988, 4th 1992
Barrasso: 6th 1988
Fuhr: not in the top 10 any of the four years
Joseph: 3rd 1992
Moog: 8th 1990
Vernon: 4th 1989
Richter: 6th 1992
Hextall: 7th 1989
McLean: 7th 1992
Ranford: not in the top 10 any of the four years
 

VanIslander

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...I'm not saying Hasek wasn't willing that team to where it was going most of the time...but we don't need to continue to try to trick people into thinking those Sabres teams were the dregs of the planet...
How many HHOFer skaters did he play with in Buffalo versus how many HHOFers on the teams against.

0 to 7. 0 to 6. 1 to 9.

He was behind the eight ball often and sunk the shot.

View attachment 915489

Extremely small samples in highly specific situations, but maybe somewhat interesting still.
The only significant result is: Roy & Sawchuk sucked at it. Clearly.
 
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Wee Baby Seamus

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Please don’t make me tap the “amount of HOFers on a team is a fallacious stand-in for quality of team support” sign.

Hasek’s Hart record makes the ‘he was carrying that team’ case for him. You don’t have to resort to HOFers, a measure that substitutes a player’s full career value for his single season value and pretends it’s equivalent.
 

VanIslander

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And then there is the playoffs...

The 27-year-old NHL "rookie" all-star in Chicago once again stopped Lemieux:



Flash forward 4 years to his Buffalo years, i in grad school pre-Internet, ordering my third pasta dish to keep watching the satellite dished game in the Italian restaurant just south of the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor. Hasek faces a penalty shot by Mario, the team's only star skater is LaFontaine.

 
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MXD

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Beating Pang by 9 points isn't that impressive.

So if it's about the names and not the numbers, I guess we could talk about how many points he beat Belfour, Beezer, Barrasso, Fuhr, Joseph, Moog, Vernon, Richter, Hextall, McLean and Rainford by, then?
Since it's about names without any context, he did beat Billy Smith by 31 points.
 
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VanIslander

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Let's stop this team ties and one-goal games as anyway indicative of goalie play.

Team stats are much more about skaters than their goalie.
 

DN28

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In the current group, I see a clear line of top 4 goalkeepers, tier above the rest. Four goalies with a legitimate case for greatest goalie title. Four goalies who combine a high peak level performance, above average performance accross multiple eras, great longevity and a long list awards and achievements. Roy, Plante, Hall and Hašek. I’ll argue on their behalf as if I were their advocate highlighting their advantages, some of which perhaps haven’t been mentioned yet.

Patrick Roy
What’s not to like about Roy? His baseline goaltending (his average performance in an average game) was consistently so good for such a long time. Entered the league in offense-crazed 1986, immediately wins the Cup and becomes the youngest Conn Smythe winner. Ends his career after one of the lowest goal scoring playoffs ever while still considered just as good a difference-maker as in the whichever 1990s season.

Was there a point where Roy was not considered one of the ten best NHL goalies in between 1986-2003? Except for 1995, GMs always had Roy in their Vezina ballots – for 17 seasons. Roy is not a goalie whose strong award results were based on lazy voters looking at high number of GP or wins. Roy did not have a single NHL season with below average SV%. He remained healthy troughout his career and retired with one of the best playoff records out of any player. Hard to find anything substantial to critize him for. What more out of goaltender would you want if you’re GM or coach picking for your team a goalie for life?

The goaltending craft is so affected by the individual mental state and is more volatile than other positions. Hence voting Roy #1 as a vote for the most consistent, reliable goaltending makes perfect sense.

Jacques Plante
Pioneer with perhaps deepest intelectual understanding of the position. Like Roy, Plante too started NHL career with a Stanley Cup. Did Plante have a single down season in the 1950s? Did Plante had a playoffs where the Habs dynasty won in spite of him? Doesn’t seem to be the case. SIHR in their 2001 study „gave“ Plante even a retro Conn Smythe for 1960 playoffs when he registered 3 shutouts and 0.950 over 8 games.

Plante slowly regressed in the 1960s. Outside ’62 Hart winning season, there isn‘t much to hang on until his 1st retirement, is there? Partial 1961 season due to knee injury. Worsened asthma condition in 1963. Trade and two below average NY seasons. Seasons in his 40s are amazing though (given his age). They make Plante relevant in this conversation, revealing he was able to succeed outside Montreal.

I admire how 36 y/o Plante was able to step in against Soviets behind the Montreal Jr. Canadiens in 1965. Montreal won 2-1 largely thanks to Plante. Apart from Tarasov, players were also impressed. Vyacheslav Starshinov in 1966 spoke on the topic of USSR playing against NHL team and mentioned Plante:

„Soviet team would like to try it out in this year‘s trip to Canada too, but the managers of Canadian profi-teams have been making excuses and they‘ve lined up just a 2 or 3 real professional players against the Soviet players for a test. But we‘ve played against the best goalie, professional Plante. He is perhaps the best in the world and we could not score a goal on him no matter what. So we lost 1:2. Our squad would need such a goalie!“

There is a greatness to Plante that’s hard to convey directly, but you get a sense of it by reading how the hockey world tried to lure him. Various NHL and WHA teams, Swedish hockey association, all of media seeking his commentary... Greatness in terms of style, how he influenced so many later goalies to do a lot more than just stand in front of the net and passively stop shots. Greatness in terms of being the goalie who backed arguably greatest hockey team ever. Voting Plante #1 would be voting for the most influential, most ‚historic‘, legacy-leaving netminder.

Glenn Hall
Seems like some of Hall’s accomplishments get glossed over. He was put into very difficult situation in 1955. After all that Sawchuk did in 1951-1955, Adams surprisingly replaced him with Hall. Yet Detroit reached finals in 1956 with Hall, who went 0.925 with 12 shutouts in the regular season. Most goalies would crumble under such pressure, I think.

I also think that for all the suspicion about his Chicago playoff performance, people tend to neglect it was Hall’s team which played first 3 SC finals after expansion… Yes, I realize Hall factored mostly in 1968 playoffs and less in 1969 and 1970, but still…

The argument for Hall is kind of boring and hardly convincing for HF members, yet should be at least proclaimed – the awards. Since the 1981–82, Vezina Trophy voted by GMs, was given to the best goaltender according to regular season performance. From 1982 to 2024, Hašek won Vezina 6x, Brodeur 4x, Roy 3x. No other post-82 goalie won the trophy three times or more.

Before 1982, All-Star teams, voted by the media (for a brief time also by coaches), were the closest thing we had to current-day Vezina. ASTs were introduced in 1930-31. But ASTs are to be taken with grain of salt since they were almost always handed to a goalie with the lowest GAA… until Glenn Hall stopped the trend. No goalie won more 1st AST nods than Hall (i.e. 7x). Durnan 6x, Dryden 5x, Gardiner 3x, Sawchuk 3x, Plante 3x, Esposito 3x. No other pre-82 goalie won 1st all-star three or more times.

NHL awards in general have been thoroughly criticized, and justifiably so in many cases. But is there any doubt with Hall in particular and his 1st ASTs? It was definitely easier for Hall to gather the all-stars in a league with 6-12 teams compared to league with 30+ franchises, fair enough. On the other hand, Hall was winning them against Plante and Sawchuk, he was winning them in spite of not recording the lowest GAA and he was winning them when you could count the writers actually watched all of 6 teams… How low can a goalie with greatest on-paper list of ‚best goalie of the (regular) season‘ titles fall?

Most of us like to come up with our rankings and own set of criteria (including me), but there is something to be said about taking a modest approach and simply accept votings of hundreds of people watching & reporting about games over the span of decades. Voting Hall #1 means not to overthink this exercise and not to retroactively impose our own subjective angle in order to arrive at „true“ best goalie in whatever period. It means accepting the simplest evaluating standards right in front of us.

Dominik Hašek
Most entertaining netminder with greatest longevity. No goalie had to overcome more challenges to reach acknowledgement. Born and raised behind the Iron Curtain. „Hidden“ from North American audience for 7-8 years till global politics changed and 25 y/o Hašek, who had been widely considered the best non-NHL goalie since at least 1987, finally went to Chicago… only to get stuck behind the Vezina winning Belfour.

Hašek had every reason to return to Europe to remain a local star with comfortable life and with fans / writers not laughing at his style. Yet he chose to stay, led the IHL in all goaltending stats, earning the IHL 1st All-Star team nod. Blackhawks allowed Hašek to start more in the next season. Hašek stays statistically on par with Belfour (and everybody else).

Finally breaks out in 1994. In what was still a high scoring environment, Hašek became the 1st goalie since 1974 to finish regular season with GAA below 2.00. Wins the ’97 Hart Trophy as the first goalie since 1962 in a quite distressing team environment. Hašek’s own team fans boo him at the start of next season, yet he drags the Sabres to EC final and becomes the only goalie who won the Hart in 2 consecutive seasons.

For a long time, Hašek had to deal with charges of „not being the winner“ uniquely unlike any other goalie available this round. But he eventually wills the underdog Czech team on first best-on-best Olympics to a gold medal in 1998 as 33 y/o (defeating his rival in the process). He leads the Sabres close to the SC next year but ultimately falls short by 2 games.

Quits the Sabres after 2001, joins the Wings team full of stars when he’s 36, just to prove again that he’s actually a „winner“. If Hašek didn’t win with Detroit then, we’d probably never stop hearing the „not a winner“ argument again. Just like Plante’s post-1969 career brings him to the discussion, Hašek finally playing for an excellent team and imediatelly winning the Cup, while symbolically defeating his biggest rival again along the way, adds a lot of trustyworthiness to his ability to play under pressure. Hašek became the 1st European starting goaltender to win the Stanley Cup. In the process, he set the record for the most shutouts (6) in playoffs at the time and finished 2nd in Conn Smythe trophy voting.

For all the (maybe rightful) flack he receives for ’06 Ottawa season, I don’t think that it gets enough attention that a 40 y/o guy after several years of barely playing competitive hockey, turned into hottest Vezina candidate until his injury. I also think not enough attention is directed to the way how Hašek confronted this season’s disappointing ending: going back to Detroit, losing in WC final to the eventual winner, finishing 5th in Vezina voting in a pretty good competition (Brodeur, Luongo, Kiprusoff, Lundqvist).

Hašek was likely the NHL level goalie in 1984 when he first led his league in SV% and made his name by the season’s end, beating the Soviets 7:2. An 18 y/o goalie was voted the 3rd best European player. To put this into context, this was the ’84 top 5 in Europe:
1) Vyacheslav Fetisov 316 (96-10-8)
2) Vladislav Tretyak 182 (45-21-5)
3) Dominik Hašek 163 (28-36-7)
4) Sergey Makarov 124 (32-12-4)
5) Vladimir Krutov 86 (23-2-13)

Hašek probably grew into one of the best goaltenders in the world by 1986-87. During this season, he could hardly achieve more: best SV% in the league as well as in the WHC, voted as the best CSSR player, won the league title, voted as the best WHC goalie by the Directoriate as well as by the media, voted as the 3rd best player in Europe.

The obstacles Hašek overcame, and vastly different eras and playing styles from high-flying 1980s through the dead puck era up to post-lockout powerplay enhanced NHL, in all of which he succeeded, give him the upper hand. On the other side, the list of injuries also negates the advantage he has in longevity compared to others. Missing few critical playoff series may be a legitimite reason to move Hašek down. Voting Hašek #1 would mean looking beyond the team accomplishments and, in my view, voting for individually greatest goaltending ‚story‘.
 
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Michael Farkas

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But is there any doubt with Hall in particular and his 1st ASTs?
Absolutely, yes.
simply accept votings of hundreds of people watching & reporting about games over the span of decades. Voting Hall #1 means not to overthink this exercise and not to retroactively impose our own subjective angle in order to arrive at „true“ best goalie in whatever period. It means accepting the simplest evaluating standards right in front of us.
Hundreds?

In any case, if we're just going to defer to the, whatever, 15 writers whose job is not evaluating goaltending...then close the project down now, in my opinion. I'm not saying don't take any other opinions, clearly that's going to happen, clearly there's some value there.

Just in short...
Hall's 1957 - didn't win the 1st half of the year. Narrowly won the second half (though our voting is incomplete).
1958 - decent 1H win, lost 2H to the guy that was close in 1H. 108-104 victory.
1960 - 3rd in 1H, but Sawchuk didn't play in 2H, so there was no vote siphoning...allowing Hall to win 106-105.
1962 - 3rd in 1H, but Bower got no votes in 2H allowing Hall to work his way to a 2AS.
1963 - Tied Sawchuk for 1H.
1964 - Dominant 1H, got dummied in 2H by Charlie Hodge.
1966 - Lost 2H to Gump Worsley...
1967 - Was 3rd in 1H, 3rd in 2H, but because of the nature of this style of voting, he narrowly beats out DeJordy for the 2AS.
1969 - Got a 1AS narrowly, with just 39 decisions on a team where Plante had better numbers.

There's a reason why folks do interviews and not just read a resume. Saying that anyone is taking a "subjective angle" (which people use pejoratively, which is incorrect), but then leaning on the lack of transparency, incomplete voting records by a bunch of subjective writers that were generally associated with certain teams and possibly buddy buddy with some of the people involved here is just bizarre.

Just because it's on a piece of paper doesn't make it objective.

Watch...IQ | Skill | Skate | Compete | Misc.
Plante 9 | 8 | 8.5 | 8.5 | 8 | 7
Hall 8 | 7.5 | 7.5 | 7 | 7

(Not that I'm married to those numbers) - objectively by the numbers, Plante is better haha

But yeah, taking goofy things like 1H/2H voting that can be separated by a vote or two at pure face value and then applying it across eras and generations is a lower form of the boogey-man "subjectivity" in my opinion.
 
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