Hockey Cards - Part III

[Satan]

Oh my god why didn't anybody tell me this before I pretty much finished my PC.

Prior to the pandemic I used to ship stuff to a place close to the border with Kinek but I obviously couldn't do that right now, and that was before I started collecting cards again. I'll check them out for sure next time I make a big purchase, thanks.

Yeah, they're a great service. I think $5-7 usd per envelope you send there. I send my ebay purchases there and then do a bulk submission back to Canada. I think it cost me $50 usd from SMC to Canada + whatever storage fees accumulated to send a bunch of eBay/comc purchases plus a 20x24" signed poster via FedEx. They send with discrete packaging too so you don't get dinged on customs.

 

[blankall]

Talk about greed. PWCC had a very impressive business going on until they decided they needed more!

PWCC is denying this obviously. Pretty shocking if true. As you say, they had a massive business. I can't imagine why they would risk it all to increase some of their bids. They are only getting 10-15% of sales. So if they shill bid up a card by $1000, they only get an extra $100 or so. Seems like a massive risk to their reputation for a small payoff.

I'd be more inclined to believe the culprits are people submitting cards and then shilling up their own items. Either way, I won't be submitting or buying anything from PWCC for a while.

 

[Xspyrit]

By the way, since I'm here. I'd have some questions about COMC if someone could help me with that. I'm in Canada (near Montreal) and would like to get some stuff delivered. Would like to know a few things first though and you can't reach them by phone anymore. It took months before I got an answer by email and now they are "ignoring" my reply...

PWCC is denying this obviously. Pretty shocking if true. As you say, they had a massive business. I can't imagine why they would risk it all to increase some of their bids. They are only getting 10-15% of sales. So if they shill bid up a card by $1000, they only get an extra $100 or so. Seems like a massive risk to their reputation for a small payoff.

I'd be more inclined to believe the culprits are people submitting cards and then shilling up their own items. Either way, I won't be submitting or buying anything from PWCC for a while.

It's definitely a possibility, it'd be pretty stupid on PWCC's part to "risk it" but greed, temptation... such is life and people have been falling for it forever.

So if they did, it's likely greed as I said. In most businesses, you should be happy with a 10-15% markup so if their commission was "only" that, they were most likely not making as much in pure profits as there is various operating costs. They were probably looking at ways to improve their markup and "cheating" is sometimes a solution people come up with.

 

[BostonBob]

After 70 years MLB is ending their relationship with Topps.

from cnbc.com:

Major League Baseball will abandon Topps as its partner for trading cards, ending a relationship that’s been in place since 1952.

Fanatics, the company that makes sports apparel, is expected to get the trading card deal instead, according to two people familiar with the matter. Fanatics and MLB declined to comment.

MLB renewed its deal with Topps in 2018, and the existing deal ends in 2025. The MLB Players Association deal also aligns with the league, so its deal would end, too.

In the agreement with Topps, MLB gets a royalty on products sold with its intellectual property. Baseball departing is a blow to Topps as the powerhouse announced it would go public last April. The trading cards company entered a SPAC merger with Mudrick Capital Acquisition Corp. II, which is listed on the Nasdaq, valuing Topps at $1.3 billion.

Topps was a public company before being taken private following a $385 million deal in 2007. The company was founded in 1938 and became well known for its distribution of trading cards, including the 1952 Mickey Mantle card which sold for $5.2 million last January. With MLB out, Topps is left with licensing deals with leagues including Major League Soccer and the National Hockey League.


Full story: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/19/mlb-will-end-long-time-deal-with-trading-card-company-topps.html

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Not surprised by the Topps deal. They’ve been slipping for years.

Here comes the trend of % off coupons instead of autographs, tho. Distribution will surely be better and hobby exclusives will become a thing of the past. Fanatics will cater to the fan over the seller ten times out of ten.

 

[Bondurant]

After 70 years MLB is ending their relationship with Topps.

from cnbc.com:

Major League Baseball will abandon Topps as its partner for trading cards, ending a relationship that’s been in place since 1952.

Fanatics, the company that makes sports apparel, is expected to get the trading card deal instead, according to two people familiar with the matter. Fanatics and MLB declined to comment.

MLB renewed its deal with Topps in 2018, and the existing deal ends in 2025. The MLB Players Association deal also aligns with the league, so its deal would end, too.

In the agreement with Topps, MLB gets a royalty on products sold with its intellectual property. Baseball departing is a blow to Topps as the powerhouse announced it would go public last April. The trading cards company entered a SPAC merger with Murdrick Capital Acquisition Corp. II, which is listed on the Nasdaq, valuing Topps at $1.3 billion.

Topps was a public company before being taken private following a $385 million deal in 2007. The company was founded in 1938 and became well known for its distribution of trading cards, including the 1952 Mickey Mantle card which sold for $5.2 million last January. With MLB out, Topps is left with licensing deals with leagues including Major League Soccer and the National Hockey League.


Full story: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/19/mlb-will-end-long-time-deal-with-trading-card-company-topps.html

Damn. This is massive. Topps will have to innovate like never before. Is there anything out the for them to license. Australian Football League cards coming down the pike? Not optimistic about Fantatics. Their hockey jerseys are hot garbage.

 

[Olden McGroin]

After 70 years MLB is ending their relationship with Topps.

from cnbc.com:

Major League Baseball will abandon Topps as its partner for trading cards, ending a relationship that’s been in place since 1952.

Fanatics, the company that makes sports apparel, is expected to get the trading card deal instead, according to two people familiar with the matter. Fanatics and MLB declined to comment.

MLB renewed its deal with Topps in 2018, and the existing deal ends in 2025. The MLB Players Association deal also aligns with the league, so its deal would end, too.

In the agreement with Topps, MLB gets a royalty on products sold with its intellectual property. Baseball departing is a blow to Topps as the powerhouse announced it would go public last April. The trading cards company entered a SPAC merger with Mudrick Capital Acquisition Corp. II, which is listed on the Nasdaq, valuing Topps at $1.3 billion.

Topps was a public company before being taken private following a $385 million deal in 2007. The company was founded in 1938 and became well known for its distribution of trading cards, including the 1952 Mickey Mantle card which sold for $5.2 million last January. With MLB out, Topps is left with licensing deals with leagues including Major League Soccer and the National Hockey League.


Full story: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/19/mlb-will-end-long-time-deal-with-trading-card-company-topps.html

Game changer for sure. Looks like the leagues and players will get ownership stakes.


MLB, Players Ending Topps Card Deal for Fanatics Joint Venture

Fanatics has also had discussions with the NBA, NBPA and NFLPA regarding their trading card licenses (Panini currently has exclusive rights with each), according to a person with knowledge of the discussions.

All of the parties—the MLB, MLBPA, NBA, NBPA and NFLPA—are set to get equity in a new joint venture with Fanatics, as well as a possible portion of secondary sales.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

As I said in the thread about this in the Baseball forum here, I’ve never collected baseball cards nor do I follow the MLB, but Fanatics potentially taking over the sporting card industry gets a massive “f*** That Nonsense” from me.

Fanatics as a whole are overpriced garbage. Like others have said, if their cards end up being like anything else they already make, then a lot of collectors/kids are going to be very upset.

 

[Rorschach]

One possibility is the loss of this license diminishes Topps' overall value as a corporate public entity and Fanatics just outright buys them, then continues to produce baseball cards using the Topps brand. I think the collectors would be very OK with that. No one wants Fanatics own brand of cards with 0 tradition and legacy.

Or they could buy another company like Upper Deck, thus also acquiring the NHL license in one swoop and getting Upper Deck Authenticated as well, acquiring the exclusives with Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky and Ben Simmons.

If Fanatics brought back one of those two companies, especially Topps, into the football card and basketball card realms, the collectors would embrace that I think. Having Topps Chrome football again would be well received.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

One possibility is the loss of this license diminishes Topps' overall value as a corporate public entity and Fanatics just outright buys them, then continues to produce baseball cards using the Topps brand. I think the collectors would be very OK with that. No one wants Fanatics own brand of cards with 0 tradition and legacy.

Or they could buy another company like Upper Deck, thus also acquiring the NHL license in one swoop and getting Upper Deck Authenticated as well, acquiring the exclusives with Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky and Ben Simmons.

If Fanatics brought back one of those two companies, especially Topps, into the football card and basketball card realms, the collectors would embrace that I think. Having Topps Chrome football again would be well received.

Eh, Prizm sets have taken over. I don’t think a Chrome set is having the same appeal as prizm has produced.

Prizm is the only thing panini has done right.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

As I said in the thread about this in the Baseball forum here, I’ve never collected baseball cards nor do I follow the MLB, but Fanatics potentially taking over the sporting card industry gets a massive “f*** That Nonsense” from me.

Fanatics as a whole are overpriced garbage. Like others have said, if their cards end up being like anything else they already make, then a lot of collectors/kids are going to be very upset.

Fanatics memorabilia cards have insane potential compared to the slop being released now.

Topps is done. They have been done for awhile now and we’re milking up nostalgia then actually being innovative outside of digital.

This is a step in the right direction

 

[Rorschach]

Game changer for sure. Looks like the leagues and players will get ownership stakes.


MLB, Players Ending Topps Card Deal for Fanatics Joint Venture

Fanatics has also had discussions with the NBA, NBPA and NFLPA regarding their trading card licenses (Panini currently has exclusive rights with each), according to a person with knowledge of the discussions.

All of the parties—the MLB, MLBPA, NBA, NBPA and NFLPA—are set to get equity in a new joint venture with Fanatics, as well as a possible portion of secondary sales.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the rumor is true that WWE is dropping Topps for a similar deal.

 

[Rorschach]

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

I don’t see them wanting the NHL.

Like, at all.

I could see Fanatics pressure UD into giving them Jordan and Lebron with the caveat they don’t go after the NHL license, but if they do their homework and see during the pandemic run everything was getting swooped up but hockey cards at retail, it’s not good business grabbing up a dead brand and hockey is nowhere near the big three.

But, I do see the distribution balance changing, and that’s a good thing. Collectors should be able to buy whatever they want online at retail prices and pay shipping instead of scalper prices. Hoops basketball last year burned a lot of bridges by greedy sellers asking 30 dollars for a pack of the cheapest, most kid friendly brand that had a price point of 4.99 per pack.

Now, you get into a blame game. Why does the two big corporations want out? It’s simple, the distributors. The two biggest, blowout and DaA, ruined everything with their greed. Buying out retail then selling it a three times the price and in Zions rookie year 20 times the price for no other reason then they had the money to do it and took advantage of everyone.

Nobody was asking 1500 dollars for a Prizm mega until DaA started that trend.

If collectors can buy thru Fanatics, pay a little more but have it shipped right to their house, so be it. If card shops go under, at this point, if you don’t have an online presence then you don’t have anybody to blame but yourself.

Good news for collectors

 

[blankall]

Not sure charging retail will fix the scalping problems. Whenever individual cards are going for big numbers the product will get bought up. If there's a big rookie to hunt, then the retail will get bought up and then resold.

 

[Bondurant]

My only interest in Panini is the World Cup sticker albums. Not a fan of Fanatics but for anyone looking to remain in the hobby let's hope they do cards better than they do jerseys. Skyrocketing prices the past 12+ months has killed my interest. After I get the Seider YG I am bowing out for good.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Not sure charging retail will fix the scalping problems. Whenever individual cards are going for big numbers the product will get bought up. If there's a big rookie to hunt, then the retail will get bought up and then resold.

Retail is already going up in some areas on account of the scalpers. Which is why getting rid of the middle man is likely the result of Fanatics future model.

If collectors can buy thru Fanatics, there’s no reason to pay hobby prices. Will they flood the market? Sure they will, which will make numbered cards that much more valuable.

Another thing going under the radar is Fanatics will cater to big Corp over mom and pop stores. The odds all the big hits will be in retail moving forward are far better then the model traditionally being used. And again, that’s a good thing.

If I was UD I would be worried. Fanatics is big enough to bully every chain into not carrying their products and it wouldn’t surprise me if hockey cards were exclusive to Canada in a few years.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

My only interest in Panini is the World Cup sticker albums. Not a fan of Fanatics but for anyone looking to remain in the hobby let's hope they do cards better than they do jerseys. Skyrocketing prices the past 12+ months has killed my interest. After I get the Seider YG I am bowing out for good.

This doesn’t make any sense.

Fanatics sells licensed jerseys. If Nike is making crappy NFL jerseys, why is it Fanatics fault?

 

[The Kingslayer]

I kinda miss Panini hockey. I dunno I really liked some of their product.

 

[Brown Cat]

I was about to throw out an old bag away, sitting in a shed for about 5 years. Decided to look inside and found a 15-16 opeechee box. These were inside.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Well, with the scandal going on right now with Heritage auctions, it’s safe to assume the record Gretzky rookie sale was shilled

 

[kaiser matias]

Well, with the scandal going on right now with Heritage auctions, it’s safe to assume the record Gretzky rookie sale was shilled

Are they also getting called out for shill bidding like PWCC?

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Are they also getting called out for shill bidding like PWCC?

You don’t know the half of it…..

 

[blankall]

I kinda miss Panini hockey. I dunno I really liked some of their product.

More competition is always better. IMO the NHL should allow multiple companies into the market but limit how many products each can have. Even if they just let Panini have 4-5 basic sets, that would be awesome. Personally, I wasn't a huge fan of all the painted on images on top of blank backgrounds they used. That Panini Prime set was pretty great though. I also liked how they would throw in lots of Autos of less common players into their products. UD seems to provide fewer autos and largely limit them to higher end players. Why not just add a few low end auto to every case of S1/S2?

 

[The Kingslayer]

More competition is always better. IMO the NHL should allow multiple companies into the market but limit how many products each can have. Even if they just let Panini have 4-5 basic sets, that would be awesome. Personally, I wasn't a huge fan of all the painted on images on top of blank backgrounds they used. That Panini Prime set was pretty great though. I also liked how they would throw in lots of Autos of less common players into their products. UD seems to provide fewer autos and largely limit them to higher end players. Why not just add a few low end auto to every case of S1/S2?

When I got back in in 2013 I really liked Select, National Treasures, Totally Certified. Fun sets.