Confirmed with Link: Ho-Sang PTO discussion

[93LEAFS]

It's a few years early to be signing McDavid Midget teammates

McDavid doesn't even like him. So it is not even a selling point. Now, Sam Bennett would be a good part of a pitch jks.

 

[fahad203]

A highly touted player who was drafted, disappointed, then rebounded mid-career? It's probably the exception, not the rule. But you can point to players like Blake Wheeler or Alex Radulov, who disappointed early only to figure out different dimensions to their game. Wheeler, in particular, was a top-10 pick that forced a trade, didn't register more than 0.5 PPG until the seventh year after his draft — that's right around where Ho Sang is right now. Radulov had an incredible junior career, two better-than-0.5 PPG seasons in Nashville, then disappeared to the KHL. He didn't really become the player he is until more than a decade after his draft year, when he landed in Dallas.

Different scenarios, as both Wheeler and Radulov got more NHL time, and hence, more opportunity early on. But it's obviously possible, if not exactly likely. But Ho Sang's a comparably high-end talent, and the fact that he wasn't given as much opportunity for whatever reasons, makes him worth a shot, IMO.

Along with Verhaege, Marchessault is another great player who bounced around a lot before finding his footing. Florida messed up.

or maybe he's not good at all. I mean people keep saying how talented he was. He actually wasn't though
His numbers in O were average at best for someone who went on first rounder. It was his OHL playoff points that got him the remarks he got.

I mean Sean Day had more upside and he's in ECHL
Robbie Schremp had better upside and he's done with hockey

Wheeler and Radulov are poor examples. Wheeler was always good, the fact was Boston tried to turn him into a 3rd liner like Joe Otto. Wheeler was never physical hence B's didn't like the fact that he wouldn't use his size and speed to hit. They loved Lucic type of player at the time

Everyone knew Radulov was the best player outside of NHL. I am not sure what you mean by saying Radulov had a dissapointing season. He had close to 20 goals in his rookie season and 26 the next. He was an up coming star and he lived up to his reputation at the time. He had close to 60 points in his second season.

Verhaege is a late bloomer picked in 3rd round. Was never really considered a high end pick or player. There are plenty of players in NHL who takes 4-6 years in the minor then they turn out to be something.Half of Tempa Bays team was built around these types of players

Fact is, Ho-Sang will not amount to anything. Every year across NHL there are plenty of PTOs handed out. Very few actually make the team and even fewer have any impact

If Ho-Sang makes the team out of training camp, then you really need to question our Marlies players if they are good enough to be a hockey player. it shouldn't be difficult to out play Ho-Sang. Most times you just have to show up and you have him beat. He's that guy

 

[Hoverhand]

Man this thread has a lot of reaching. 1000 examples of how and why Ho-Sang used to slack off and be disliked, hell maybe he still is.

They're not going to give him an NHL contract if he blows in pre-season or shows no signs of improvement on or off the ice. I know half the thread is convinced that Dubas is the anti-christ but come on, what are we doing here? He's either jettisoned back into free agency in a couple months, gets some rinky dink Marlies deal to figure stuff out down there, or he plays like one of the 12 best forwards in camp.

Some reclamation projects work, some don't. We'll see!

 

[Leaf Fans]

or maybe he's not good at all. I mean people keep saying how talented he was. He actually wasn't though
His numbers in O were average at best for someone who went on first rounder. It was his OHL playoff points that got him the remarks he got.

I mean Sean Day had more upside and he's in ECHL
Robbie Schremp had better upside and he's done with hockey

Wheeler and Radulov are poor examples. Wheeler was always good, the fact was Boston tried to turn him into a 3rd liner like Joe Otto. Wheeler was never physical hence B's didn't like the fact that he wouldn't use his size and speed to hit. They loved Lucic type of player at the time

Everyone knew Radulov was the best player outside of NHL. I am not sure what you mean by saying Radulov had a dissapointing season. He had close to 20 goals in his rookie season and 26 the next. He was an up coming star and he lived up to his reputation at the time. He had close to 60 points in his second season.

Verhaege is a late bloomer picked in 3rd round. Was never really considered a high end pick or player. There are plenty of players in NHL who takes 4-6 years in the minor then they turn out to be something.Half of Tempa Bays team was built around these types of players

Fact is, Ho-Sang will not amount to anything. Every year across NHL there are plenty of PTOs handed out. Very few actually make the team and even fewer have any impact

If Ho-Sang makes the team out of training camp, then you really need to question our Marlies players if they are good enough to be a hockey player. it shouldn't be difficult to out play Ho-Sang. Most times you just have to show up and you have him beat. He's that guy

That is not a fact; it is a probability. All Ho-Sang was handed was a chance.

 

[LaPlante94]

Got people who probably never watch Ho-Sang play say he sucks. Idk how anyone can watch him play and deny his talent and some even act like he isn't even good enough to crack the Marlies roster. People still angry because he wore the number 66? Or because he's not a robot and shows some emotion?

 

[egd27]

I mean Galchenyuk's career was in a shitter full of diarrhea before the Leafs effectively rehabilitated it.

He's without a contract in mid August. Not sure how much the Leafs rehabbed his career.

 

[Bichael Munting]

or maybe he's not good at all. I mean people keep saying how talented he was. He actually wasn't though
His numbers in O were average at best for someone who went on first rounder. It was his OHL playoff points that got him the remarks he got.

I mean Sean Day had more upside and he's in ECHL
Robbie Schremp had better upside and he's done with hockey

Wheeler and Radulov are poor examples. Wheeler was always good, the fact was Boston tried to turn him into a 3rd liner like Joe Otto. Wheeler was never physical hence B's didn't like the fact that he wouldn't use his size and speed to hit. They loved Lucic type of player at the time

Everyone knew Radulov was the best player outside of NHL. I am not sure what you mean by saying Radulov had a dissapointing season. He had close to 20 goals in his rookie season and 26 the next. He was an up coming star and he lived up to his reputation at the time. He had close to 60 points in his second season.

Verhaege is a late bloomer picked in 3rd round. Was never really considered a high end pick or player. There are plenty of players in NHL who takes 4-6 years in the minor then they turn out to be something.Half of Tempa Bays team was built around these types of players

Fact is, Ho-Sang will not amount to anything. Every year across NHL there are plenty of PTOs handed out. Very few actually make the team and even fewer have any impact

If Ho-Sang makes the team out of training camp, then you really need to question our Marlies players if they are good enough to be a hockey player. it shouldn't be difficult to out play Ho-Sang. Most times you just have to show up and you have him beat. He's that guy

I mean, I don’t disagree that his probability of success is low. That’s simply a fact for the overwhelming majority of players, no matter the pedigree. Were I betting on Ho-Sang, or most junior stars, I’d wager on them never making it. But skill is worth betting on, especially when you have very little to lose.

As for Radulov and Wheeler, agree to disagree I guess? I remember them both being considered disappointments early on — maybe less so for Wheeler, because he didn’t have as much hype outside of his draft position. A solid prospect no doubt, but he was sub-PPG in both the USHL and NCAA. Early on, I recall him being considered a rangy, toolsy player who the Yotes reallllllly reached on.

Agreed that Radulov was considered the best player outside the NHL, but he didn’t put up superstar numbers early. Not bad ones — you’re right on there — but not an immediate superstar. He had more hype and better junior numbers than Ho-Sang, though, and was on a different tier prospect wise, and had more NHL success. The point I was trying to make is that he took longer to figure out his game, which is the gamble the Leafs are taking on Ho-Sang. It’s the same kind of wager teams took on Verhaege, though you’re right that he was less touted.

So is Ho-Sang another Day or Schremp? Yeah, probably. It’s extremely rare that players beat the odds, even ones that are better than all the players mentioned in this thread. But what’s the harm in PTOing these guys? If he doesn’t work, no loss. If he can tap into even a fraction of his potential with the Marlies or Leafs, then that’s a free asset. I don’t see the harm of PTOs, and based on the amount that are handed out each year, plenty of clubs agree.

 

[LeafSteel]

Holy over-reaction Batman!

This is an inconsequential move. If it takes a nobody like Ho-Sang to cause our dressing room to become dysfunctional, guess what? Our dressing room is already dysfunctional if it is that fragile.

Personally I don't think Ho-Sang makes it out of camp and he will have a glorious Leaf career that rivals Lehner, Olli Jokinen, Olaf Kolzig, Martin Skoula, and Martin Gerber's long and impactful careers as Maple Leafs.......

 

[The Iceman]

or maybe he's not good at all. I mean people keep saying how talented he was. He actually wasn't though
His numbers in O were average at best for someone who went on first rounder. It was his OHL playoff points that got him the remarks he got.

I mean Sean Day had more upside and he's in ECHL
Robbie Schremp had better upside and he's done with hockey

Wheeler and Radulov are poor examples. Wheeler was always good, the fact was Boston tried to turn him into a 3rd liner like Joe Otto. Wheeler was never physical hence B's didn't like the fact that he wouldn't use his size and speed to hit. They loved Lucic type of player at the time

Everyone knew Radulov was the best player outside of NHL. I am not sure what you mean by saying Radulov had a dissapointing season. He had close to 20 goals in his rookie season and 26 the next. He was an up coming star and he lived up to his reputation at the time. He had close to 60 points in his second season.

Verhaege is a late bloomer picked in 3rd round. Was never really considered a high end pick or player. There are plenty of players in NHL who takes 4-6 years in the minor then they turn out to be something.Half of Tempa Bays team was built around these types of players

Fact is, Ho-Sang will not amount to anything. Every year across NHL there are plenty of PTOs handed out. Very few actually make the team and even fewer have any impact

If Ho-Sang makes the team out of training camp, then you really need to question our Marlies players if they are good enough to be a hockey player. it shouldn't be difficult to out play Ho-Sang. Most times you just have to show up and you have him beat. He's that guy

I don't think it would be unusual for a statistically average 1st round pick to make the Leafs as a fringe winger?
You gave Josh a nice compliment.
Statistically avg 1st round picks are awesome talents.

 

[stanleyorbust]

Verhaege isn’t the best example either.

When the leafs drafted him I remember the leafs saying he was going to surprise people and they thought he’d be a 100 point OHL player post draft. They had high hopes for him.

He then broke his femur and the new people in charge didn’t keep him around long enough for him to turn into he was going to be all along. Big miss for the leafs on him.

or maybe he's not good at all. I mean people keep saying how talented he was. He actually wasn't though
His numbers in O were average at best for someone who went on first rounder. It was his OHL playoff points that got him the remarks he got.

I mean Sean Day had more upside and he's in ECHL
Robbie Schremp had better upside and he's done with hockey

Wheeler and Radulov are poor examples. Wheeler was always good, the fact was Boston tried to turn him into a 3rd liner like Joe Otto. Wheeler was never physical hence B's didn't like the fact that he wouldn't use his size and speed to hit. They loved Lucic type of player at the time

Everyone knew Radulov was the best player outside of NHL. I am not sure what you mean by saying Radulov had a dissapointing season. He had close to 20 goals in his rookie season and 26 the next. He was an up coming star and he lived up to his reputation at the time. He had close to 60 points in his second season.

Verhaege is a late bloomer picked in 3rd round. Was never really considered a high end pick or player. There are plenty of players in NHL who takes 4-6 years in the minor then they turn out to be something.Half of Tempa Bays team was built around these types of players

Fact is, Ho-Sang will not amount to anything. Every year across NHL there are plenty of PTOs handed out. Very few actually make the team and even fewer have any impact

If Ho-Sang makes the team out of training camp, then you really need to question our Marlies players if they are good enough to be a hockey player. it shouldn't be difficult to out play Ho-Sang. Most times you just have to show up and you have him beat. He's that guy

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Shocked that this thread is still regularly bumped and replied to. It’s a PTO, goodness me.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This guy would have to really show up big time in camp to get a professional contract with only 3 openings remaining. Possible he gets one for the Marlies but he would have to show really really well in camp to even get to work on his game with the Marlies. He’s running out of road. That said, i would rather have signed Galchenyuk back over quite a few of these new guys. He played awesome for us. I feel bad for Gally unless he is simply asking for to much money.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Curious, can a player only commit to one team for a PTO? If so, the obvious question is, are the Leafs the only team that inquired or did the player choose the Leafs for the opportunity?

 

[Leaf Fans]

Curious, can a player only commit to one team for a PTO? If so, the obvious question is, are the Leafs the only team that inquired or did the player choose the Leafs for the opportunity?

A team offers a PTO. Any team can offer one. We only know about the one he signed. Still, any team can offer him an SPC. So if he blows the doors off at camp, another team can swoop in and offer him a contract.

 

[Leafs87]

This is one I would of stayed away from. He’s had so many chances to shine or at least mature and blew them all in hilarious fashion

 

[fahad203]

Verhaege isn’t the best example either.

When the leafs drafted him I remember the leafs saying he was going to surprise people and they thought he’d be a 100 point OHL player post draft. They had high hopes for him.

He then broke his femur and the new people in charge didn’t keep him around long enough for him to turn into he was going to be all along. Big miss for the leafs on him.

I wouldn't say it's a big miss. It took him draft +6 years to become what he is and even that he hasn't played full season yet

You wouldn't have waited 6 years to players to come around

 

[fahad203]

Holy over-reaction Batman!

This is an inconsequential move. If it takes a nobody like Ho-Sang to cause our dressing room to become dysfunctional, guess what? Our dressing room is already dysfunctional if it is that fragile.

Personally I don't think Ho-Sang makes it out of camp and he will have a glorious Leaf career that rivals Lehner, Olli Jokinen, Olaf Kolzig, Martin Skoula, and Martin Gerber's long and impactful careers as Maple Leafs.......

Well what else are we going to talk about ? Every move we made this year has been inconsequential moves

According to everyone here every move we made is a low risk and high reward

So better get used to it. We have made plenty of those.

 

[mydnyte]

A highly touted player who was drafted, disappointed, then rebounded mid-career? It's probably the exception, not the rule. But you can point to players like Blake Wheeler or Alex Radulov, who disappointed early only to figure out different dimensions to their game. Wheeler, in particular, was a top-10 pick that forced a trade, didn't register more than 0.5 PPG until the seventh year after his draft — that's right around where Ho Sang is right now. Radulov had an incredible junior career, two better-than-0.5 PPG seasons in Nashville, then disappeared to the KHL. He didn't really become the player he is until more than a decade after his draft year, when he landed in Dallas.

Different scenarios, as both Wheeler and Radulov got more NHL time, and hence, more opportunity early on. But it's obviously possible, if not exactly likely. But Ho Sang's a comparably high-end talent, and the fact that he wasn't given as much opportunity for whatever reasons, makes him worth a shot, IMO.

Along with Verhaege, Marchessault is another great player who bounced around a lot before finding his footing. Florida messed up.

the closest player i see to Wheeler is Jake Virtanen
...Wheeler on Boston looked like he was a stick figure on a bubble hockey machine, he'd go up and down his wing, and nothing else, and he managed to figure it out, dont know if Virtanen has enough hockey sense to improve, but, the first few seasons in Boston, I thought the same about Wheeler too.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

the closest player i see to Wheeler is Jake Virtanen
...Wheeler on Boston looked like he was a stick figure on a bubble hockey machine, he'd go up and down his wing, and nothing else, and he managed to figure it out, dont know if Virtanen has enough hockey sense to improve, but, the first few seasons in Boston, I thought the same about Wheeler too.

I want no part of Virtanen with his off ice issues.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

How does this guy bring up enough passion to illicit 10 pages?

Its just a PTO guys, if he exceeds expectations he gets signed and plays until he regresses, if he sucks he goes nowhere, no harm no foul.

 

[Bluelines]

Got people who probably never watch Ho-Sang play say he sucks. Idk how anyone can watch him play and deny his talent and some even act like he isn't even good enough to crack the Marlies roster. People still angry because he wore the number 66? Or because he's not a robot and shows some emotion?

He's a talented guy who belongs best in a sport like golf where individuality is part of the game. His skill shouldn't be in doubt, his ability to use his linemates effectively is.

 

[Bluelines]

How does this guy bring up enough passion to illicit 10 pages?

Its just a PTO guys, if he exceeds expectations he gets signed and plays until he regresses, if he sucks he goes nowhere, no harm no foul.

It's Maple Leafs fans season, our season begins when the Leafs season ends. Expert opinions all around...

 

[fahad203]

How does this guy bring up enough passion to illicit 10 pages?

Its just a PTO guys, if he exceeds expectations he gets signed and plays until he regresses, if he sucks he goes nowhere, no harm no foul.

Well what else would I be doing at work?

work?

 

[Magic Man]

If the Leafs offer him a deal it would be for the Marlies. It may even be an AHL contract. Ho-Sang isn't walking onto the Leafs roster without earning it. Earning it doesn't mean in 6 pre-season games, but over the course of an AHL season. It looks like they will have to expose Engvall, Brooks and Anderson even before waiving the forward Ho-Sang would replace, given his experience and where he's coming from, he can't make the team out of camp. What he can earn in pre-season is an NHL or AHL contract to start in the AHL close to home with the Marlies.

I think as long as he doesn't get a better offer elsewhere and he shows up in shape, he should be on the Marlies to start the year.

 

[ottomaddox]

If Ho-Sang can do well for himself and for the Leafs then I'm all for it.