Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[Howard Chuck]

I need to stop being such a Heinola booster, it gets me in trouble

 

[Monty9]

In no way would I give up on him, I just think we need to be patient. And more importantly he needs patience. Unless you are among the truly elite it is a gradual climb for most defenseman within an organization. I think within a couple years he is an important part of our defense.

They need to give him an extended run and see what he has or let him go. Maybe he isn’t good enough and that is ok. Burying him in the AHL for years and not playing him when you bring him up will destroy his confidence. He can’t be as bad as some people say, when the same people think he is a great trade asset. I think he can be a good player, but I am ok if he isn’t. Give him a run, if your trading him he needs to play to gain value. If not make him your next Postma/Niku.

 

[KingBogo]

They need to give him an extended run and see what he has or let him go. Maybe he isn’t good enough and that is ok. Burying him in the AHL for years and not playing him when you bring him up will destroy his confidence. He can’t be as bad as some people say, when the same people think he is a great trade asset. I think he can be a good player, but I am ok if he isn’t. Give him a run, if your trading him he needs to play to gain value. If not make him your next Postma/Niku.

But to you prioritize his development over team success? This is an important year to contend, not develop. After this season we have Helly, Scheifele and PLD going into their final years. Winning is first and foremost.

 

[gojetsgo]

They need to give him an extended run and see what he has or let him go. Maybe he isn’t good enough and that is ok. Burying him in the AHL for years and not playing him when you bring him up will destroy his confidence. He can’t be as bad as some people say, when the same people think he is a great trade asset. I think he can be a good player, but I am ok if he isn’t. Give him a run, if your trading him he needs to play to gain value. If not make him your next Postma/Niku.

the jets need to play the defensemen that give us the best chance to win, if heinola isn't good enough to give us the best chance to win then it isn't ok the play him over others who can.

 

[KingBogo]

I need to stop being such a Heinola booster, it gets me in trouble

Certainly not in trouble in my books. I think we all want him to be part of our future, there is just some disagreement/debate on what is the best path for the team and him.

 

[lomiller1]

It's still hockey - fairly physical sport to say the least -
Size isn't a huge factor but strength is important - especially for a dman without the puck

Heinola has been the most effective defensive defenseman on the Moose the last two years, much better than Stanley ever was and even better than a Samberg who's supposed to make his reputation on defensive play. I see no reason why strength should suddenly become an issue now, if anything the AHL is an even more rugged league.

IMO Heinola needs repetitions in the NHL to keep advancing his game and the longer it takes the Jets to put him in a position to get those reps the more their draft and develop strategy falls apart.

the jets need to play the defensemen that give us the best chance to win, i

Who the third pair RHD is won't impact the Jets chance the win

 

[gojetsgo]

Who the third pair RHD is won't impact the Jets chance the win

well I guess we shouldn't have any complaints then...

 

[lomiller1]

well I guess we shouldn't have any complaints then...

About the impact on the game tonight, no complaints at all.

About where the team is headed in the next few years, yes we should have complaints. The Jets as a team will always be dependent on draft and develop and to succeed with that they will need to get young players acclimatized to the NHL as early as possible so they can contribute while they are still on cost controlled deals.

 

[gojetsgo]

About the impact on the game tonight, no complaints at all.

About where the team is headed in the next few years, yes we should have complaints. The Jets as a team will always be dependent on draft and develop and to succeed with that they will need to get young players acclimatized to the NHL as early as possible so they can contribute while they are still on cost controlled deals.

the jets are trying to win this year and are right now #1 in p% in the west, heinola is only 21 years old and will still be on a cheap contract for the next couple of years, he will get games in the next 4-6 weeks anyways and if he helps us win he will stay in and if he is not ready yet he will come out

 

[LowLefty]

Heinola has been the most effective defensive defenseman on the Moose the last two years, much better than Stanley ever was and even better than a Samberg who's supposed to make his reputation on defensive play. I see no reason why strength should suddenly become an issue now, if anything the AHL is an even more rugged league.

IMO Heinola needs repetitions in the NHL to keep advancing his game and the longer it takes the Jets to put him in a position to get those reps the more their draft and develop strategy falls apart.

I don't think rugged is the issue - it's more about core strength and being able to manage the strength and speed of the NHL. I would argue that NHL players are better conditioned and stronger than what is in the A.

IMO, he needs to be a little more physically mature - I see that as a priority over advancing his current skill set.
I also think it will come with time and hard work - and he can continue to work on that element from where he is.
He's still young and I don't think the org is anywhere close to giving up on him - but he'll need to be patient.

 

[lomiller1]

the jets are trying to win this year and are right now #1 in p% in the west, heinola is only 21 years old and will still be on a cheap contract for the next couple of years, he will get games in the next 4-6 weeks anyways and if he helps us win he will stay in and if he is not ready yet he will come out

Getting Heinola reps now can make a big difference at the end of the season when things matter a whole lot more. Also, his ELC is up at the end of next year. If you don't give him a real chance until next year and he has a great year the team will be forced to pay him a big contract based on just a single year.

Ideally a team should use the 2-3 years on the ELC to get a really good idea of what they actually have before they need to decide on long term vs bridge contracts. To do this you need to start getting your top prospects NHL by the time they are 21.

 

[gojetsgo]

Getting Heinola reps now can make a big difference at the end of the season when things matter a whole lot more. Also, his ELC is up at the end of next year. If you don't give him a real chance until next year and he has a great year the team will be forced to pay him a big contract based on just a single year.

Ideally a team should use the 2-3 years on the ELC to get a really good idea of what they actually have before they need to decide on long term vs bridge contracts. To do this you need to start getting your top prospects NHL by the time they are 21.

if giving him reps now costs us points it is not worth playing him, were trying to win. this is the winnipeg jets not the heinola jets... I mean we should really wait until heinola gets a full season before worring about how much he is going to get paid... all I said was the jets need to play the defense that gives them the best chance to win... if heinola proves he is ready during the next 4-6 weeks then great I'll be happy, if not then he can go back down to the moose and work on his game, didn't really seem to hurt morrisey who was down there at the same age

 

[lomiller1]

if giving him reps now costs us points it is not worth playing him, were trying to win.

Again, your #6 D-man is not going to impact you point totals. If any of the players we are considering were good enough to significantly change the Jets chances to win they would #2 or #3 D-men not #6 D-men.

 

[gojetsgo]

Again, your #6 D-man is not going to impact you point totals. If any of the players we are considering were good enough to significantly change the Jets chances to win they would #2 or #3 D-men not #6 D-men.

if they play bad it can 100% cost us points no matter where they play in the line up, a #6 d may not end up winning us games but they can certainly cost us winning games...

 

[Monty9]

if they play bad it can 100% cost us points no matter where they play in the line up, a #6 d may not end up winning us games but they can certainly cost us winning games...

Pionk plays poor defensively 7 out of 10 games, doesn’t miss a shift.

 

[surixon]

if giving him reps now costs us points it is not worth playing him, were trying to win. this is the winnipeg jets not the heinola jets... I mean we should really wait until heinola gets a full season before worring about how much he is going to get paid... all I said was the jets need to play the defense that gives them the best chance to win... if heinola proves he is ready during the next 4-6 weeks then great I'll be happy, if not then he can go back down to the moose and work on his game, didn't really seem to hurt morrisey who was down there at the same age

I don't get why you can't both play your top prospects and try to win, cough Perfetti cough. We really are talking about inserting him over a waiver wire tweener here. I guess I don't see what some do in Capo, he's as mediocre as they come and also am adventure in his end.

If your going to call up a top prospect you play them you don't leave them in the PB. If they wanted a pb guy call up a depth Moose dmen.

 

[gojetsgo]

I don't get why you can't both play your top prospects and try to win, cough Perfetti cough. We really are talking about inserting him over a waiver wire tweener here. I guess I don't see what some do in Capo, he's as mediocre as they come and also am adventure in his end.

If your going to call up a top prospect you play them you don't leave them in the PB. If they wanted a pb guy call up a depth Moose dmen.

I never said you can't play heinola, I said play the defense that gives you the best chance to win.. if it's heinola great if it's not then don't play him, he was sick for the last 4 moose games so capo got the call and played good so we kept the same line up, schmidt is out 4-6 weeks heinola will get his chance to prove himself, honestly didn't expect there to be so much discussion from saying "play the defense that gives you the best chance to win"

 

[MardyBum]

If only Heinola was a 24 year old cast off from another team, what a fanbase he would have.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Starting to feel like Dano 2.0

 

[lomiller1]

if they play bad it can 100% cost us points no matter where they play in the line up, a #6 d may not end up winning us games but they can certainly cost us winning games...

Capobianco cost us preseason games with bad penalties, but he's somehow that's going to stop because reasons? Like I said I don't think either is going to get us points or cost us any, but it seems like you are just assuming Heinola is going to cost us games while Capobianco is going to get us wins for no other reason than you want Heinola to fail.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Capobianco cost us preseason games with bad penalties, but he's somehow that's going to stop because reasons? Like I said I don't think either is going to get us points or cost us any, but it seems like you are just assuming Heinola is going to cost us games while Capobianco is going to get us wins for no other reason than you want Heinola to fail.

Capo has had a pretty good game and no penalties. Did a good job skating it out of our end.

 

[gojetsgo]

Capobianco cost us preseason games with bad penalties, but he's somehow that's going to stop because reasons? Like I said I don't think either is going to get us points or cost us any, but it seems like you are just assuming Heinola is going to cost us games while Capobianco is going to get us wins for no other reason than you want Heinola to fail.

how many times do I need to state "play the defense that gives you the best chance to win... if it's heinola great" I also said several times that heinola will get his chance to prove himself with schmidt being out for 4-6 weeks... so unless I say play heinola no matter what it means I want him to fail? give me a f***ing break, I just want the jets to win no matter who is in the line up....

 

[lomiller1]

Capo has had a pretty good game and no penalties. Did a good job skating it out of our end.

No penalties so far tonight but I don't see him having much impact out there either.

 

[lomiller1]

how many times do I need to state "play the defense that gives you the best chance to win... if it's heinola great" I also said several times that heinola will get his chance to prove himself with schmidt being out for 4-6 weeks... so unless I say play heinola no matter what it means I want him to fail? give me a f***ing break, I just want the jets to win no matter who is in the line up....

I'm more about using the roster in a way that gives us the best chance to win a cup. Capobianco isn't getting us any closer to that. Heinola may not either, but he needs reps at the NHL level for us to even find out.

 

[gojetsgo]

I'm more about using the roster in a way that gives us the best chance to win a cup. Capobianco isn't getting us any closer to that. Heinola may not either, but he needs reps at the NHL level for us to even find out.

how does "play the defense that gives us the best chance to win" go against winning the cup...