Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[CorgisPer60]

Totally agree, and I don't think Tiny Heiny is anywhere near physical or tough enough, to be an NHL defenseman. He should be spending his time in the weight room, and building his physical strength -- something like Morrissey has done.

Except the part where he spent too much time in the weight room, became slower, and was more infectual as a defenseman. There needs to be a balance. You can't just spend time in the weight room if you don't know how to use that extra size proportionally. Heinola is a player he is because he plays to his strengths. He needs to continue to play to his strengths while minimising his weaknesses.

 

[MardyBum]

But it also won’t prove anything if he makes a few nice plays and the optimists claim we have found Pionk or Schmidt’s replacement. Slow and small are a dangerous combination.
Look what teams are giving up to get big net clearing D. I can’t think of any small slower d who are having great success.

No, but he's also 21, what were Schmidt and Pionk doing at 21?

Both in college still, look at Schmidt's first few seasons after his college career.

He's also not slow. He's not exceptionally fast for his size but he's not slow either.

 

[ps241]

I'm not feeling it either.

Outside a couple flashes, Ville looks overwhelmed in the NHL. I hope he shows me I'm wrong.

I am skeptically optimistic.


He has to figure out a way to accentuate his strengths and he needs to do it soon since he is in his draft +4 season. Move the puck, support the rush, create offense, and come out on right side on the balance sheet (Nate Schmidt lite perhaps).

Seems like he ”might” be getting the ideal break in that he could get a stretch of five games, and there is a spot that has opened up for him on PP#2.

I am not holding my breath on Ville but anything can happen.

 

[Jet]

Here's why. People (in general, not just here) tend to make overly quick, overly harsh judgements and then look for confirmation. It's one of the most basic and powerful human biases.

Ville is a young, extremely talented player who has not been given a sufficient string of games to prove anything. He is small, but playing in an era where small size is less important than ever before in the NHL. He is not exceptionally fast, which has been my biggest concern since the moment I saw him in his first pre-season game. I think he has the skill and smarts to overcome that and be a top-4 D, but we shall see.

If the "cynical" types jump down his throat after a mistake or two, or a bad game, it will not prove anything about Ville. It'll just show that confirmation bias usually wins out.

I'd say the converse happens as well, but you're right. Confirmation bias is definitely a thing I struggle with

 

[BoneDocUK]

Except the part where he spent too much time in the weight room, became slower, and was more infectual as a defenseman. There needs to be a balance. You can't just spend time in the weight room if you don't know how to use that extra size proportionally. Heinola is a player he is because he plays to his strengths. He needs to continue to play to his strengths while minimising his weaknesses.

I'd just add that for those of you who watched the media availability with him and Schmidt a while back Heinola has out on a fair bit of muscle. I can't really watch the Moose these days, but in the last few where seasons I did catch his games I wouldn't have described him as a lightweight, a weakling, or even particularly small. He also has a decidedly nasty streak when riled, as Moose watchers will know.

Whether or not he has what it takes to carve out a strong career in the NHL is for sure an open question, but he isn't some shrinking violet who shies away from contact, isn't a laggard on the ice, isn't a defensive black hole and isn't notably lazy or malingering. He also isn't Niku, Vesalainen or Juolevi.

Also, he's our prospect, and it's in the team's interest that he succeeds, either so we can keep him as a part of the new core moving forward or trade him for something we need. Samberg is years older, and still makes mistakes -- and also makes great plays that suggest that patience will be rewarded with him. I expect Heinola's trajectory will be much the same, if all goes well.

 

[None]

The vibe I'm getting from the posts since the call up is that there's still an expectation of a prospect entering the highest level of hockey as a finished product and to play a near flawless game to convince some.
And even then it might not be enough because there'd still be people pointing to his height and weight.

 

[WolfgangPuck]

Let the Heinola speculations and debate continue cause Capo looks like he gets the start tonight in Vancouver

 

[KingBogo]

Let the Heinola speculations and debate continue cause Capo looks like he gets the start tonight in Vancouver

I think most of us would have preferred to see him tonight.

 

[WolfgangPuck]

I think most of us would have preferred to see him tonight.

Me too
Smitty is supposedly out for 4-6 weeks so I think Ville will get some burn time maybe next game

 

[gojetsgo]

I think most of us would have preferred to see him tonight.

he missed the last 4 games with the moose from the flu so may not be 100% ready yet

 

[KingBogo]

Me too
Smitty is supposedly out for 4-6 weeks so I think Ville will get some burn time maybe next game

Now that we know Schmidt will be 4-6 weeks it makes more sense to let Ville settle in with the team and play tomorrow. Especially after being out sick for over a week.

 

[TS Quint]

The vibe I'm getting from the posts since the call up is that there's still an expectation of a prospect entering the highest level of hockey as a finished product and to play a near flawless game to convince some.
And even then it might not be enough because there'd still be people pointing to his height and weight.

Not at all. But he has to do something other than suck because hat's all he does in the NHL. It's it too much to ask for him to mix in a Capo level performance once i a while?

He needs the strength because he can check for crap. All he does is attempt to stand between the puck and the net. He rarely creates a turnover. It's basically a penalty kill in his own end. Which means he never gets to show what he is good at, playing in the offensive zone. So what are you supposed to do with that? Give him another chance again? And again? At what point do we have to say he just not at Capo's level yet? If he's not helping the team then he needs to get to work on the Moose and figure out how he can contribute to the Jets.

He needs to earn his NHL time, this isn't some sort of charity.

 

[CorgisPer60]

He needs to earn his NHL time, this isn't some sort of charity.

Ok. HOW IN THE f*** DO YOU THINK HE CAN EARN IT IF HE ISN'T PLAYING IN THE NHL? All we wanted is to give him a run of games to show that he can play in the NHL. He hasn't gotten that yet. He's been buried behind people that are either better than he is right now, are making more money than he is, or aren't waiver exempt. Stanley stayed in the AHL until he was no longer waiver exempt, then was "magically good enough" to play a sheltered 3rd pairing role. He's utterly replaceable, as we've seen him do with Samberg and apparently Capobianco.

As an aside, I'd be perfectly ok with Dillon being traded and Samberg taking his spot on the 2nd pair.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Who is the young defenseman on another team that everyone raves about? Heinola is the same size.

It’s a different game now, you need smarts more than anything.

 

[KingBogo]

Who is the young defenseman on another team that everyone raves about? Heinola is the same size.

It’s a different game now, you need smarts more than anything.

Is this a riddle?

 

[LowLefty]

Who is the young defenseman on another team that everyone raves about? Heinola is the same size.

It’s a different game now, you need smarts more than anything.

It's still hockey - fairly physical sport to say the least -
Size isn't a huge factor but strength is important - especially for a dman without the puck

 

[ps241]

Who is the young defenseman on another team that everyone raves about? Heinola is the same size.

It’s a different game now, you need smarts more than anything.

I’ll take Adam Fox for $100 Howard! (?)

 

[gojetsgo]

Who is the young defenseman on another team that everyone raves about? Heinola is the same size.

It’s a different game now, you need smarts more than anything.

hope you are not talking makar... because these 2 are in different stratospheres

 

[KingBogo]

I’ll take Adam Fox for $100 Howard! (?)

I was thinking Makar.

 

[KingBogo]

I’ll take Adam Fox for $100 Howard! (?)

hope you are not talking makar... because these 2 are in different stratospheres

Those are the 2 I was thinking he was being compared to. And agreed while Heinola is a good prospect he is no where near those levels. Those are guys that will end their careers with multiple Norris trophies. I just hope Heinola becomes something along the lines Pionk, maybe a little more?

 

[Krauser]

Who is the young defenseman on another team that everyone raves about?

I’m hearing this in the voice of Isaac Hayes…

 

[WpgSteve]

Not at all. But he has to do something other than suck because hat's all he does in the NHL. It's it too much to ask for him to mix in a Capo level performance once i a while?

He needs the strength because he can check for crap. All he does is attempt to stand between the puck and the net. He rarely creates a turnover. It's basically a penalty kill in his own end. Which means he never gets to show what he is good at, playing in the offensive zone. So what are you supposed to do with that? Give him another chance again? And again? At what point do we have to say he just not at Capo's level yet? If he's not helping the team then he needs to get to work on the Moose and figure out how he can contribute to the Jets.

He needs to earn his NHL time, this isn't some sort of charity.

I agree. Do posters really think they can evaluate a player better than the coaching staff? If Heinola was a better option than the other guys, he'd be playing.

 

[ps241]

Those are the 2 I was thinking he was being compared to. And agreed while Heinola is a good prospect he is no where near those levels. Those are guys that will end their careers with multiple Norris trophies. I just hope Heinola becomes something along the lines Pionk, maybe a little more?

Makar has such insane skating I would rule that out. Fox is a guy that is Heinola’s size, doesn’t skate better, but Adam has elite IQ and Skill.

Ville resembles him physically and that’s were it ends “emphatically”.

That being said I think it’s a bit early for me to give up on Heinola.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I don't mean to compare the skill level of Makar to Heinola, but a lot of hockey people think he is a very good prospect. I just disagree with the argument that you need to be big to be effective. He's almost the same size as Morrissey?

 

[KingBogo]

Makar has such insane skating I would rule that out. Fox is a guy that is Heinola’s size, doesn’t skate better, but Adam has elite IQ and Skill.

Ville resembles him physically and that’s were it ends “emphatically”.

That being said I think it’s a bit early for me to give up on Heinola.

In no way would I give up on him, I just think we need to be patient. And more importantly he needs patience. Unless you are among the truly elite it is a gradual climb for most defenseman within an organization. I think within a couple years he is an important part of our defense.