Has Messi surpassed Gretzky/Jordan and others as the GOAT for all sports?

[pcruz]

This is a joke, right?

It is a joke.

Anyone who thinks athletes (who run 1/3 to 1/2 marathons in 2 to 2.5 hours, every 3 days for 9 months ) are put through inferior physical strain than the athletes who average 11 minutes of activity per game for 18 games a year, is a joke.

 

[Lauro]

I don't think he is the best football player ever, so no.
Besides that it is very difficult to compare all these athletes from different sports and eras.

 

[gritdash60]

How about Isinbajeva? 2 olympic golds, 4 world championship golds. First woman to ever pole vault over 5meters. It was like "whos going to get the silver" for a long time with her in the competition.

On 23 November in Monaco, she was selected World Athlete of the Year by the IAAF for the third time in her career, along with Jamaican male sprinter Usain Bolt.

 

[Panthaz89]

It is a joke.

Anyone who thinks athletes (who run 1/3 to 1/2 marathons in 2 to 2.5 hours, every 3 days for 9 months ) are put through inferior physical strain than the athletes who average 11 minutes of activity per game for 18 games a year, is a joke.

NFL players outside of heavy lineman can run marathons...soccer players on the other hand won't do anything in the NFL players position. If you ever played both sports you would know how ridiculous it is to compare try running again and again after getting hit several times. It's much more demanding on the body which is why the amount of games is considerably less.

 

[messi2020s]

I'm biased since football is my main sport. But I've been watching Messi since he started and I can confirm with 100% certainty he's the best athlete of all time.

Now was he more dominant than Jordan and Gretzky? Who has the better stats, who wins in popularity, who wins in eye test? Also for a casual which athlete is more interesting?

I think it all depends on what someone is looking at, but as a casual of NHL and NBA I can give my two cents:

Eye test: All are 10/10 , but I'd say Messi wins here (just watch any youtube video of him from 2011-2019)

Dominance: Messi and Gretzky are a tie. Jordan doesn't have the most MVPs or Final MVPs.
Gretzky has 9 MVPS and Messi will most likely win his 8th Ballon dor this year... difference?
Messi won 7 so far while playing in the same era as arguably the second-best player ever in his sport (Ronaldo). That means Messi was second in Ballon Dor votes 5x, so if Ronaldo didn't exist Messi would have 12-13 ballon dor's. In other words, if Messi wins his 8th balon dor this year, he'll have 3 more than the second (Ronaldo), which is the same difference that Gretzky has with Howe.

Popularity: Messi and Jordan are both insanely popular, but MJ made basketball bigger... But Messi has almost 500 million IG followers, would MJ have that? Don't think so.


Stats: Gretzky is amazing here, but so is Messi and Jordan. Gretzky dominance has lasted years, Jordan many have been broken, and Messi broke 50-70 year old records...

Sports popularity/difficulty: Football is by far the most popular sport, more than 250 million play it, and over 2-3 billion watch it. Hockey and Basketball are big, but nowhere near.


Longevity: Messi has been top 2 player almost every year of his career up until now. Gretzky is second and Jordan 3rd

Trophies: I'd say it's unfair to compare since NBA and NHL are a league, and in football, there are more tournaments and international tournaments with more weight than leagues. So it's a tie for all

Lastly, I think Gretzky and Jordan's legacy had a lot of time to breathe, and their legacies are set. Messi can still add to his legacy and we still don't know what the aftermath of his retirement will be. My guess is that it's not until he's done will have time to digest everything, just like we do with Jordan and Gretzky.

Other stats: Messi has an Olympic gold medal (Pele, Maradona don't), Messi has a Copa America (Pele, Maradona don't), Messi was 2x best player World Cup (only player ever). And on top of all his insane stats, he took an average Argentina to win the World Cup

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Appreciate the first post. Hopefully helpful advice - you'll come off as more impartial, especially on a hockey forum, if you spell Gretzky correctly.

 

[MardyBum]

As my 9 year old would say, Mbappè is the future GOAT.

 

[messi2020s]

Appreciate the first post. Hopefully helpful advice - you'll come off as more impartial, especially on a hockey forum, if you spell Gretzky correctly.

Just correct it! thanks for the heads up

 

[RRhoads]

I am old, and still hold Maradona over Messi.

 

[messi2020s]

As my 9 year old would say, Mbappè is the future GOAT.

Lol Mbappe is 24 years old has no Ballon Dors. Messi at that age had 4 already. Also Messi had 3 Champions Leagues, Mbappe has zero. Mbappe is a great talent, we have that in every sport once every 10-15 years. Messi is a once in 100 year talent.

P.S: Mbappe is a great goalscorer, Messi is both the best goalscorer and playmaker ever. Mbappe in a weak league, doesn't have more than 50 goals in a year. Messi in the strongest league at the time, scored 91 goals in a year in 69 games! (most ever) and 30+ assists (most ever)... It's not even close

 

[messi2020s]

I am old, and still hold Maradona over Messi.

Only from a nostalgic and emotional point of you, there's no metric Maradona can even compare to Messi.

 

[RRhoads]

Only from a nostalgic and emotional point of you, there's no metric Maradona can even compare to Messi.

Serie A titles

 

[norrisnick]

Serie A titles

What's the exchange rate between Serie A titles and La Liga titles?

 

[L4br3cqu3]

No.

Simple as that.

 

[God]

i don't think there's an argument for gretzky over either messi or jordan

 

[SENStastic]

No one was as feared by his cohort when he played in his prime like Jordan, and he's got the rings to go with it. I'd go with him.

 

[RRhoads]

What's the exchange rate between Serie A titles and La Liga titles?

For a La Liga title in this era with Barcelona vs a Serie A title with Napoli back in the 80s? They are not one-to-one. There are basically two teams with money in Spain now. Those two teams are stacked.

 

[Toby91ca]

I can understand the Messi argument due to global nature of the sport, but from a Canadian perspective and North American perspective in general, I think people would defer to someone outside of soccer…so Canadians might lean towards Gretzky and Americans may lean to someone like Jordan. My other issue with Messi is lots of people would argue Ronaldo over him…I’m not into the sport enough to argue that, but the point is, people can argue that without being complete idiots….even if there was no question…he didn’t dominate the field like Gretzky or Jordan.

 

[messi2020s]

I can understand the Messi argument due to global nature of the sport, but from a Canadian perspective and North American perspective in general, I think people would defer to someone outside of soccer…so Canadians might lean towards Gretzky and Americans may lean to someone like Jordan. My other issue with Messi is lots of people would argue Ronaldo over him…I’m not into the sport enough to argue that, but the point is, people can argue that without being complete idiots….even if there was no question…he didn’t dominate the field like Gretzky or Jordan.

That's because Gretzky wasn't in Howe era and Jordan wasn't in the Lebron era... I think with Messi and Ronaldo it's the first time in team sports you're having two monsters in the same era.

If Gretzky played in Lemiux or Howe era he wouldn't win or have as many MVPs... at least a couple would be stolen. Same with Jordan playing in the Lebron era. Also, the underdogs would always step up to compete with the best.

Furthermore, arguments only existed before the World Cup. As time goes by the argument is kind of dying. There's no list online that will have Ronaldo over Messi.

I'm sure that if Howe played in the same era as Gretzky many would prefer Howe for N reasons. Also, there would be a rivalry so you'd be forced to pick one. That's what the marketing for Messi vs Ronaldo was... Messi is obviously the best ever in the sport, only Pele can maybe be debated. In the same way you can debate Kareem and Bill Russell as better than Jordan

 

[messi2020s]

For a La Liga title in this era with Barcelona vs a Serie A title with Napoli back in the 80s? They are not one-to-one. There are basically two teams with money in Spain now. Those two teams are stacked.

My argument is this; The Argentina side Messi played in is arguably worst than Maradona's Napoli team. Messi would never play for a bad club team at his peak, so that's unrealistic to even compare. Messi carried very average Barcelona sides by himself for years... Same with Argentina! 2 World Cup finals, 5 Copa America finals, Olympics, U-20 World Cup, finalissima... There's only one common denominator that's Messi.

Also he's still not finished, I think its unlikely he'll win again with Argentina, but we never know...

 

[phreak]

Gretzky. I know this podcast is slightly different than the thread topic but a good listen either way on the dominance of the great one:

 

[MOGlLNY]

Is Messi2020 really sure that Messi is the best athlete ever?

 

[Albatros]

Messi is both the best goalscorer and playmaker ever.

Heh. He could do both at a higher level than most, but as a goalscorer even Haaland right now is better than Messi ever was. And Barcelona's playmaking relied most heavily on Xavi and Iniesta. Messi was the elite winger up front that could either score himself or deliver the final pass to an open teammate.

 

[messi2020s]

Heh. He could do both at a higher level than most, but as a goalscorer even Haaland right now is better than Messi ever was. And Barcelona's playmaking relied most heavily on Xavi and Iniesta. Messi was the elite winger up front that could either score himself or deliver the final pass to an open teammate.

Thats not true. Messi in his peak scored 91 goals in year. Haaland has 50 something goals. If you add Haaland's goals + Mbappe goals this season it's still less than what Messi scored in 2012.

Thats my point, Messi has been so dominant, it's hard to pin point what he did because we never had time to let it sit. He breaks records every season... Him winning the World cup as a slow 36 year old, is the last image of him people have. But thats the worst version of Messi. He's just that good that at 35-36 he takes his nation to a World Cup agaisnt peak Mbappe at age 24

 

[542365]

He plays the easiest, most boring sport on the planet. Who cares if he’s any good at it? There are thousands of better athletes playing basketball, hockey, football, baseball, swimming, tennis etc. It takes very little skill to be good at soccer, which is why it’s so popular throughout the world. Your 4 year old daughter can play soccer. You 75 year old grandpa can play. They can’t play a real sport at any reasonable level.