Has Messi surpassed Gretzky/Jordan and others as the GOAT for all sports?

[pcruz]

Messi scored 7 goals dude, not 6. And he was clearly the best player in 2014 and moreso in 2022. Modric won the golden ball in 2018 with only two goals, and deservedly so.

Modric is a defensive midfield player, can't expect him to score the goals for his team.
He carried Croatia to 2nd place and was fully deserving of the golden ball.

Mbappe deserved it this year.
I found DiMaria to be the most effective player for Argentina when he played, and it was when he departed the final that France woke up.

I don't remember Messi being the best player in 2014 either to be honest.
The memory that comes most easily is the drubbing Germany lay on Brazil.

Thought Muller deserved the award that year to be honest.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

American football is the most popular sport in North America.

And yet the other 90 percent of the world doesn't know a single thing about it

 

[TheStatican]

Nope.

Messi isn't even the greatest at his own sport.

Most think he is. But even if you disagree one thing is for sure, he is now the best that is still alive...

R.I.P. Mr Pelé

Brazilian soccer legend Pelé dies at 82 | CNN

Pelé, the Brazilian soccer legend who won three World Cups and became the sport's first global icon, has died at the age of 82.

www.cnn.com

 

[gritdash60]

Always Aleksander Karelin for me if you going to talk about GOAT among all sports.

Aleksandr Karelin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"After going 13 years undefeated in international competition and six years without giving up a point" I don't think people understand what thats translated to hockey or other sports, it's like your forward scored 7 points in 200 games in a row.

 

[gritdash60]

Also Carl Lewis, Sergei Bubka, Usain Bolt and Mariya Lasitskene should be options on the vote, way more dominant in their respective sports than Messi or Gretzky.

And muricans gonna ask "Why not Phelps???" well because the sport has way too many similar events compared to any other sport. It's like if there was hockey, hockey without left elbow pad, hockey without mouthguard, hockey while wearing a bracelet, hockey while not drinking water, hockey while drinking water.

Edit: added Lasitskene.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Also Carl Lewis, Sergei Bubka, Usain Bolt and Mariya Lasitskene should be options on the vote, way more dominant in their respective sports than Messi or Gretzky.

And muricans gonna ask "Why not Phelps???" well because the sport has way too many similar events compared to any other sport. It's like if there was hockey, hockey without left elbow pad, hockey without mouthguard, hockey while wearing a bracelet, hockey while not drinking water, hockey while drinking water.

Edit: added Lasitskene.

Yup, swimming has so many events so they can pad the medal counts of rich countries.

 

[TBF1972]

Also Carl Lewis, Sergei Bubka, Usain Bolt and Mariya Lasitskene should be options on the vote, way more dominant in their respective sports than Messi or Gretzky.

And muricans gonna ask "Why not Phelps???" well because the sport has way too many similar events compared to any other sport. It's like if there was hockey, hockey without left elbow pad, hockey without mouthguard, hockey while wearing a bracelet, hockey while not drinking water, hockey while drinking water.

Edit: added Lasitskene.

i have trouble to nominate athlets from sports, in which success is possible by the use of ped's. wherever technique plays a secondary role to pure physical ability and you see sheer dominance i have my doubts.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

The answer could be usain bolt as well. 99.9 percent of all humans can run. He is by far the fastest most dominant sprinter of all time

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

I boxed for 20 years and have been a student of boxing history longer than that. While I agree with you, that doesn’t make him the goat. Others have accolades that outshine his. Notably he has nothing on Sugar Ray* or Joe Louis.

*Robinson (not Leonard)
In case anyone didn't know.


I completely agree.

 

[Panthaz89]

Soccer/football is the most overrated sport in the world....still believe that plenty of the guys that play/played in the NFL/NBA would dominate much harder if they dedicated to it. Maybe its just an American way think about it overall but oh well most of the best athletes here don't care about soccer. At the same time I don't consider Brady at all....athletes should at the very least be incredibly agile/fast/strong(you know be athletic Brady had a hard time outrunning a dude on the street) NFLs top CBs have to stop guys who can run a 4.2-4.4 from running by them at a moment's notice.

 

[gritdash60]

i have trouble to nominate athlets from sports, in which success is possible by the use of ped's. wherever technique plays a secondary role to pure physical ability and you see sheer dominance i have my doubts.

What is "ped's"? Sorry english isn't my first language.

 

[gritdash60]

Yup, swimming has so many events so they can pad the medal counts of rich countries.

I have no idea how you figure they pad the counts of "rich" countries? But if you are a great swimmer you will get not just one, but like at least 5 medals per any olympics, it's not just Phelps or anyone before or after him. To me it's the only sport where you can do like 5+ gold medals per sport nowadays.

 

[gritdash60]

Also i understand that one of the athletes i mentioned was Bubka, who could have absolutely destroyed the world record, but he went one centimeter per centimeter, for the bonuses and because he could. To me that's just a smart play, cashed out big time on his sport which really isn't a big money one. These days my the swedish boy Duplantis is on completely another level, he can't be beaten if you don't get him drunk before any competetition.

Also, i know i hype up Bubka, which was the pioneer, but Duplantis is the new KING.

Edit:
What a ridiculous sport, i could go over a higher bar without the pole than with it. Those dudes who do that have like the most insane core strenght of all people on earth.

 

[gritdash60]

But to me, The Russian Bear is still the GOAT of all sports. No one has ever dominated his respective sport like he did.

After going 13 years undefeated in international competition and six years without giving up a point, he lost 0–1 to Rulon Gardner of the United States in the final of the Sydney Olympics.His loss in the final of the Sydney Olympics was his first and only international loss, having previously been unbeaten throughout his international career. Karelin retired from competitions in 2000.

The "facts" about him are even more insane:

Karelin was born as a 5.5 kilograms (12 lb) baby.

Karelin grew physically very fast and from 16 years of age throughout his entire career he competed in the super heavyweight division, he went undefeated for the first time from 1982 to 1987 and second time from 1987 to 2000.

According to Tuomo Karila, a Finnish wrestler, while following Karelin's training routine, he observed that Karelin was able to do around 50 chin-ups within a minute.

 

[gritdash60]

I understand that people from NA mostly follow Baseball, Basketball, "Football", and Hockey, but there are absolute freak of nature people in sports that you have never even watched. I myself am a fan of just about all sports, so maybe the view is different.

But to me these "individual sports" are above the team sports if you are talking about who is the "GOAT" of all sports. I guess it shouldn't even be a thing to compare all sports to each other, but while i understand what Gretzky did and how insane his stats are, there are way more insane stats and accomplishments on other sports that i would value higher if i have to pick an athlete who has been the most dominant in his sport.

 

[TBF1972]

What is "ped's"? Sorry english isn't my first language.

performance enhancing drugs

 

[gritdash60]

performance enhancing drugs

Thank you, you mean the ones that make NHL players recover from injuries 4 times faster than normal people?

 

[gritdash60]

Thank you, you mean the ones that make NHL players recover from injuries 4 times faster than normal people?

Healthy stars use cocaine, Healthy scartches and fighters use sleeping pills, injured players use steroids.

In case u didn't know.

Edit: okok sorry fighters and healthy scracthes use more than just sleeping pills, shouldn't put all those good pills in the same category like that... my bad.

 

[gritdash60]

Healthy stars use cocaine, Healthy scartches and fighters use sleeping pills, injured players use steroids.

In case u didn't know.

Edit: okok sorry fighters and healthy scracthes use more than just sleeping pills, shouldn't put all those good pills in the same category like that... my bad.

You mean those PED's or just the ones that people use in other sports?

 

[TBF1972]

Thank you, you mean the ones that make NHL players recover from injuries 4 times faster than normal people?

yes

obviously ped's can make an impact in all sports. but in sports, where technique plays a marginal role, the help of ped's can explain certain dominant performances.

as an example you can look at the second to last stage of the 2004 tour de france. it was an individual time trail after the alpes. the racers of the three top teams us postal, t-mobile and csc were battling hard and climbing the mountains like crazy in the previous stages. time trail specialist of other teams were saving energy in the gruppeto. but in the time trail the same teams were dominating the race with 9 of 10 top 10 places in the stage.

even before the positive tests of armstrong, i knew, that all racers of those three teams were heavily using doping and had better boosters than all the other teams in the tour.

 

[gritdash60]

yes

obviously ped's can make an impact in all sports. but in sports, where technique plays a marginal role, the help of ped's can explain certain dominant performances.

as an example you can look at the second to last stage of the 2004 tour de france. it was an individual time trail after the alpes. the racers of the three top teams us postal, t-mobile and csc were battling hard and climbing the mountains like crazy in the previous stages. time trail specialist of other teams were saving energy in the gruppeto. but in the time trail the same teams were dominating the race with 9 of 10 top 10 places in the stage.

even before the positive tests of armstrong, i knew, that all racers of those three teams were heavily using doping and had better boosters than all the other teams in the tour.

I feel you my man, cycling is the dirtiest sport there is.

 

[frisco]

Messier was great. But he never reached that Jordan level or matched his long-time teammate Gretzky.

My Best-Carey

 

[Plural]

Soccer/football is the most overrated sport in the world....still believe that plenty of the guys that play/played in the NFL/NBA would dominate much harder if they dedicated to it. Maybe its just an American way think about it overall but oh well most of the best athletes here don't care about soccer. At the same time I don't consider Brady at all....athletes should at the very least be incredibly agile/fast/strong(you know be athletic Brady had a hard time outrunning a dude on the street) NFLs top CBs have to stop guys who can run a 4.2-4.4 from running by them at a moment's notice.

This is a joke, right?

 

[Monsieur Miz]

Roger Federer for me.

 

[Panthaz89]

This is a joke, right?

Why is it viewed as a joke? Do you realize how ridiculous it is to play CB in the NFL?