Has Dubas failed at his job?

[makbeer]

I blame management more than the player. We can't really blame Marner for being who he is. It's like asking a watercolour artist to build a house.

They had to evaluate the player and know what they were getting, and still chose to pay $11m.

Marner has always been this player. He's a winger who plays a soft, outside skill game, takes a lot of risks with the puck, is turnover prone and hasn't really changed his style since he played junior.

You know you're getting a flashy point-producer who is going to put butts in seats during the regular season but is going to struggle to have an impact when teams buckle down defensively and refs throw away whistles.

 

[Stonehands1990]

I doubt it. He had other physical players on the team in Polak, Martin and Komorov. He cross checked a guy in the face. His previous suspension was boarding a player that was on his knees already. What about all his other suspensions for head shots, blindsides and running goalies? He's just an idiot. Just like Cooke. He could have challenged those players to fight like most physical players would do for their team mates. He can't seem to play on the right side of the line. He has Six total suspensions. 3 in playoffs.

Martin was a healthy scratch Boston series. Komarov is a pest. I’ll give you Polak

 

[Maple Leaf]

When he traded Nazem Cadre

 

[93LEAFS]

I don't understand why people tend to draw such clear distinctions between the Lamoriello and Dubas eras when Dubas was the Leafs assistant GM under Lamoriello. Aside from direct day to day Marlies responsibilities, you would assume Dubas did enough in his AGM role in the NHL for Shanahan to say "yep, that's my guy going forward."

He didn't have much of a say with Lou. Hence why he tried to get out for a lateral job with Colorado and made the push to basically say I'm leaving if you don't make me GM, which led to Lou not being renewed. Dubas was pretty isolated, compared to the Lou/Hunter/Babs side.

 

[egd27]

Dermott was taken in the Marner draft when Hunter-Dubas were co-managing things

ok...thx

 

[Stephen]

He didn't have much of a say with Lou. Hence why he tried to get out for a lateral job with Colorado and made the push to basically say I'm leaving if you don't make me GM, which led to Lou not being renewed. Dubas was pretty isolated, compared to the Lou/Hunter/Babs side.

I think that's how the interpersonal relationships have been described and Dubas did put pressure on the Leafs with the Colorado gig which forced their hand, but it's still hard to imagine that Shanahan would have handed the keys over to the guy in the corner who no one else got along with, whose ideas were never implemented.

 

[Jozay]

I mean, the team still hasnt won a round. Answers a pretty resounding yes, so far.

 

[ottomaddox]

I blame management more than the player. We can't really blame Marner for being who he is. It's like asking a watercolour artist to build a house.

They had to evaluate the player and know what they were getting, and still chose to pay $11m.

Marner has always been this player. He's a winger who plays a soft, outside skill game, takes a lot of risks with the puck, is turnover prone and hasn't really changed his style since he played junior.

You know you're getting a flashy point-producer who is going to put butts in seats during the regular season but is going to struggle to have an impact when teams buckle down defensively and refs throw away whistles.

I like this. I am staying positive or positive as possible in regards to Marner.

I think about Mogilny and his career. When he went to NJ he really buckled down and kept his game tidy. That's all Marner has to do for TOR in the playoffs. Not silly puck flips over the boards or "I guess I just don't have it tonight". If he just simplifies things a bit then the assists/points will come. I'm still hopeful...

 

[Trapper]

Not playoff hockey. At least up to this point in their careers, Aho and Rantanen have outperformed Money Mitch by a huge margin.

By the time you get to the playoffs it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference if Matthews scored 50 goals or 40 in the regular season. It doesn’t matter if Marner got 80 assists or 60.
What matters is can you change your game to the battle of what is the NHL playoffs? No time to dangle, scoring goals at a premium, fighting through checks and blanket defense, go to the net, dump and chase and have the quality depth (which needs cap) to surround the team.

Can you play gritty, dirty and skilled at the same time? Does the sum of the parts (your core) do this or are they all the same adverse to intensity and tight play?

So far the playoff answer is leaning to wrong core.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Dubas hasn’t failed yet because he still has his job. This is his last chance to raise the bar this season. I wish them the best obviously. He’s added more of what we needed in the lineup with the chippy players or flat out nastyness some have.
It was a missing ingredient that will hopefully let our top scorers and less physical bring their game up in the cockyness department. I hope it does bring out a less sportsmanship type of game. They are overly passive and that gap has been narrowed now.
I don’t like every move Dubas has ever made but I certainly would not wish failure on him. Quite the opposite actually i want him to turn in to one of the very best G.M’s in the game. I don’t hate anyone and don’t mince words as much as I probably should but I definitely want Dubas to succeed.

 

[ToneDog]

By the time you get to the playoffs it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference if Matthews scored 50 goals or 40 in the regular season. It doesn’t matter if Marner got 80 assists or 60.
What matters is can you change your game to the battle of what is the NHL playoffs? No time to dangle, scoring goals at a premium, fighting through checks and blanket defense, go to the net, dump and chase and have the quality depth (which needs cap) to surround the team.

Can you play gritty, dirty and skilled at the same time? Does the sum of the parts (your core) do this or are they all the same adverse to intensity and tight play?

So far the playoff answer is leaning to wrong core.

You are correct but Marner is not that type of player. Neither are 34, 44, 67, 47, 15, 78, 38, and 88. I think it comes down to whether you can win with mostly skill or not. So far the answer is no.

 

[ToneDog]

I like this. I am staying positive or positive as possible in regards to Marner.

I think about Mogilny and his career. When he went to NJ he really buckled down and kept his game tidy. That's all Marner has to do for TOR in the playoffs. Not silly puck flips over the boards or "I guess I just don't have it tonight". If he just simplifies things a bit then the assists/points will come. I'm still hopeful...

The second over the glass penalty was inexcusable but when it is all said and done I think Mitch will have had successful playoff runs. My biggest concern is whether you can win with 4 forwards taking half the cap, let alone with the cap remaining virtually flat.

 

[Trapper]

You are correct but Marner is not that type of player. Neither are 34, 44, 67, 47, 15, 78, 38, and 88. I think it comes down to whether you can win with mostly skill or not. So far the answer is no.

There seems to be a great rift between skill (thinking it means prancing in a meadow) and grit (thinking it mean only punching faces).

We need to meet in the middle with our skill. More Bergeron skill in the core and less of what we are seeing. That being what you have listed above.

Either way, be it salary cap distribution, wrong core in terms of playing the harder forecheck or lack of killer instinct, the core needs to change. And this is why. All of these things are leading to 1st round exits. Not luck.

 

[OilersCoffeeArtBeer]

I like this. I am staying positive or positive as possible in regards to Marner.

I think about Mogilny and his career. When he went to NJ he really buckled down and kept his game tidy. That's all Marner has to do for TOR in the playoffs. Not silly puck flips over the boards or "I guess I just don't have it tonight". If he just simplifies things a bit then the assists/points will come. I'm still hopeful...

I get what you are referencing but these two players are nothing like one another. Lol

 

[ottomaddox]

I get what you are referencing but these two players are nothing like one another. Lol

Who is saying they are just like each other?

 

[bodechek]

I believe he has failed, but the player too have failed to live up to expectations. You can have all the skill you want, but without commitment to chemistry, it all goes down the toilet

 

[Bomber0104]

I believe he has failed, but the player too have failed to live up to expectations. You can have all the skill you want, but without commitment to chemistry, it all goes down the toilet

Paying players to a level where they can't reach expectations is on the GM.

I don't fault players/agents for extracting as much money as they possibly can.

It's up to the GM to draw a line in the sand.

Our GM abjectly failed to do that.

 

[Kiwi]

The entire organization has been a failure

That's what our Post season results say we are and until that changes we will continue to be a failure

 

[nuck]

Dubas is still on the job so you really can't say he has failed yet. Any GM's job is to take his club to the Cup or at least to improve the team every year and I don't think I am in the minority when I say his team building has evolved a lot from a few years ago and that this club looked like it could be really strong at the beginning of the season. If you believe, as many do, that he got beat up on the big 3 contracts and may have stuck his neck out too far signing JT with the others still unsigned, then those are mistakes, but they were years ago and he has done a bunch of things right since then.

I'm don't like referring to those early deals much except to argue with the occasional Dubaphile trying to defend that part of his resume. Judged since then the only real weakness to me (every GM makes the odd iffy trade) is his doggedly sticking to the core 4 when the flat cap is affecting the Leafs options so badly. The missing cap growth that would have mitigated the big Leaf deals hit at the worst possible time and you could understand if he made a drastic move to get the roster flexibility back that more cap space would offer. But the core 4 are his hill to die on and they will either vindicate him or face the consequences this year. Well there is Keefe too, but I am assuming he sat down with Shanny and Kyle and said "I'm not a fool. Believe me when I say this is what I think went wrong and this is how we will fix it".

So long as Sheldon didn't just tell them how much he believes in this group and by simple positive thinking they will move on to the next step. That was the one thing that really bugged me about the season ending presser. It didn't sound as much like the club was committed to doing whatever was required to take the next step but rather, "if we just believe in this group it will happen" which begs the question; does KD actually think that but for the Tavares injury this is a championship lineup? He is very secretive so who knows, he could be just insulating everyone else and will make his decisions and changes in time. I believe Marner and Matthews can produce well in the playoffs if used properly throughout the year so to me Dubas success is more tied to Keefe doing a much better job than by the GM pulling some rabbit out of his hat. He has neither failed nor succeeded yet.

 

[BlueBaron]

His job isn't literally to win the Cup, though obviously that is ideal. It's really to always have a decent chance.

I think you get a pass for the ECL Era because the kids were developing but after that its fair game.

Last year was the first time since the 90s I thought we had the talent needed to win but we shit the bed....

There is room for critism and second guessing things like the Foligno trade but I mean we lost JT so who knows what could have happened?

It's nice having a real blueline but we discovered the hard way we lacked scoring depth.

I don't know what deadline deal would have given Marner a heart or kept JT healthy....

One thing is for sure, he is running out of kicks at the can.

 

[kb]

30 GM's failed at their jobs last season.

Contextualize.

 

[TGB]

The only reasonable evidence of someone failing their job is the players failing at theirs. Everything else is speculation.

 

[123offtheglass]

31 (now 32) teams with high expectations, most GMs 'fail' every year. He still has time. The players have failed more than he has; he set them up for success last season and they absolutely blew it. It's on their core to at least win a playoff series.

 

[ALine]

Hasn't succeeded but hasn't necessarily failed either. A plan in progress. To ride this core until Matthews needs a new contract.

Yes, dubas has boxed himself in with the contracts, and now a flat cap. The best play going forward is to ride it out and see if these guys can figure it out. All you can do at this point really.

Any marner deal now will be a huge L. Much easier to do when its only 1 or 2 years left. Johnny with the NTC. Willy is a non issue, good value for a good player. And if someone says trade Matthews please stop talking.

 

[Gary Nylund]

30 GM's failed at their jobs last season.

Contextualize.

Wow, that's deep.

Hasn't succeeded but hasn't necessarily failed either. A plan in progress. To ride this core until Matthews needs a new contract.

Yes, dubas has boxed himself in with the contracts, and now a flat cap. The best play going forward is to ride it out and see if these guys can figure it out. All you can do at this point really.

Any marner deal now will be a huge L. Much easier to do when its only 1 or 2 years left. Johnny with the NTC. Willy is a non issue, good value for a good player. And if someone says trade Matthews please stop talking.

There's zero reason to assume that any marner deal now will be a huge L. And considering the flat cap, a marner deal makes a ton of sense. Sorry but when you say riding it out is "all you can do", that's just wrong and shows a lack of imagination.