Has Dubas failed at his job?

[Racer88]

This is insanity.
Small sample size + large outlier = choke
Large sample size + small deviation = unsustainable

It’s not insanity, just because you think you are right doesn’t mean you are right.
If you can’t understand a choke I can’t help you.
So run along and hassle someone else

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Seems like you've "neglected to mention" some stuff too. He took over a team that was 7th in the league, not 6th (it's weird you didn't look at the tiebreaker since you've been sure to be very specific about us not being top-5 this year because of a tiebreaker) - a 105 point team propped up by the simultaneous combination of good health, unsustainable shootout luck, strong starting goaltending, and a 35+ waiver claim backup fluking into a career Vezina-level season. That team was set to lose significant depth to UFA in the offseason, and the pipeline had been sucked dry and gone unreplenished.

Now, with Matthews/Marner/Nylander off their ELCs and costing tens of millions of dollars more, and that starting goalie imploding, and without the health, shootout luck, or unsustainable backup goaltending, we've actually improved to 6th in the league, and won our division with a 113 point pace, on the back of strong, sustainable underlying metrics. Despite being in this competitive phase, we have had more draft picks under Dubas than the default, and our prospect pool is in good shape.

Not a single thing you said matters until they stop losing in round 1.

It's time for progress

 

[PromisedLand]

besides the Aho deal, Rantanen deal, Point deal and...

Kucherov, McDavid and Draisail deals (8 years); and others... here is another quote





Lou: Logo on the front means more than name on the back

Dubas: Name on the back means more than logo on the front

 

[DarkKnight]

besides the Aho deal, Rantanen deal, McDavid and Draisail deals (8 years); and others... here is another quote





Lou: Logo on the front means more than name on the back

Dubas: Name on the back means more than logo on the front

There’s a reason he’s the agents favourite GM.

 

[notbias]

besides the Aho deal, Rantanen deal, McDavid and Draisail deals (8 years); and others... here is another quote





Lou: Logo on the front means more than name on the back

Dubas: Name on the back means more than logo on the front

Marner is overpaid by 1-2 million, we all know this.

Why bring up McDavid whose production drops off like crazy in the playoffs (which is always the knock on Marner), as someone who is not overpaid? Apply the same rules all around.

Marner is also better than Aho and Rantanen.

I am also not sure how much more Couturier would get on the open market, didn't he have a bad year? This contract does have a good chance of being negative value soon.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner is overpaid by 1-2 million, we all know this.

Why bring up McDavid whose production drops off like crazy in the playoffs (which is always the knock on Marner), as someone who is not overpaid? Apply the same rules all around.

Marner is also better than Aho and Rantanen.

I am also not sure how much more Couturier would get on the open market, didn't he have a bad year? This contract does have a good chance of being negative value soon.

Better at what?

 

[notbias]

Better at what?

Hockey

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hockey

Not playoff hockey. At least up to this point in their careers, Aho and Rantanen have outperformed Money Mitch by a huge margin.

 

[notbias]

Not playoff hockey. At least up to this point in their careers, Aho and Rantanen have outperformed Money Mitch by a huge margin.

Okay, so we agree then, Rantanen > McDavid?

Apply it universally or stop using it only when it fits your narrative

 

[ULF_55]

Obviously, there has been failure.

If there was a different GM would Matthews and marner lit it up in the playoffs?

So I'd agree and IMO so would Dubas agree he hasn't delivered.

His faith in the team lead him to spend assets for the post season which amounted to nothing. The players many wanted added to round out the roster were complete duds, much of that due to health issues. Trade for grit and get broken down players.

However, failure doesn't lie solely on Dubas shoulders, much of what is on this team is still from previous managements decisions, and of course injuries didn't just impact those players brought in but took out their 2nd. best center.
If marner and Matthews cannot accept they were part of the problem, then another failure might be retaining players who aren't accountable.

Another complete disaster this season will see at least one major change.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Okay, so we agree then, Rantanen > McDavid?

Apply it universally or stop using it only when it fits your narrative

I stand by what I said - up to this point in their careers, Aho and Rantanen have outperformed Money Mitch by a huge margin in the playoffs. Are you trying to change the subject to McDavid because you can't defend your position?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Another complete disaster this season will see at least one major change.

Sounds reasonable but then again, I would have said the same thing before this year's playoffs. We'll see.

 

[Macallan18]

Dubas fielded a great team. The key players choked or were injured. If we don’t perform in the playoffs this year heads will roll.

 

[ULF_55]

Sounds reasonable but then again, I would have said the same thing before this year's playoffs. We'll see.

I think injuries gave them another kick at the can.

To me drafting is the biggest boost/deflation this year.

If they don't get any help from the recent drafts, outside of gimmes in the first round, they're in trouble.

Hunter/Lamoriello/Dubas picks have to provide something this year. So far their drafting looks weak.

 

[Dreakmur]

I think injuries gave them another kick at the can.

To me drafting is the biggest boost/deflation this year.

If they don't get any help from the recent drafts, outside of gimmes in the first round, they're in trouble.

Hunter/Lamoriello/Dubas picks have to provide something this year. So far their drafting looks weak.

Im not sure any will even get a chance. Dubas keeps filling the bottom of the roster with veterans in an attempt to win now.

One of Sandin or Liljegren might make the top-6 on the back end, but I’m not sure Dubas doesn’t want to add another Bogosian type to fill that out instead.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not a single thing you said matters until they stop losing in round 1.

The regular season matters in a discussion about the regular season.

 

[hamzarocks]

Marner is overpaid by 1-2 million, we all know this.

Why bring up McDavid whose production drops off like crazy in the playoffs (which is always the knock on Marner), as someone who is not overpaid? Apply the same rules all around.

Marner is also better than Aho and Rantanen.

I am also not sure how much more Couturier would get on the open market, didn't he have a bad year? This contract does have a good chance of being negative value soon.

Couturier had 41 pts in 45 games and is generally considered a top 10 defensive center. He's been a 70+ point player for 4 years now (pace wise)

As a UFA he should get atleast 8.5M(duchene) and probably above 9M

I don't see there being much of a gap between Couterier, Tavares, and Seguin(3 high profile UFA 1Cs drafted in 2009, 2010, and 2011). Couturier could be the best of that group while making only 7.75M vs 9.8M and 11M

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The regular season matters in a discussion about the regular season.

If this team should have taught you anything it's that the regular season means nothing

 

[Dekes For Days]

If this team should have taught you anything it's that the regular season means nothing

Of course the regular season means something, and it especially means something in a discussion about the regular season. There's been plenty of discussion about the playoffs - I'm not sure why people feel the need to reply "playoffs!" to discussions that are not about the playoffs.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Of course the regular season means something, and it especially means something in a discussion about the regular season. There's been plenty of discussion about the playoffs - I'm not sure why people feel the need to reply "playoffs!" to discussions that are not about the playoffs.

Because it's not 2017 anymore and nobody gives a f*** about what they do in the regular season we are past that we know they are going to win close to 50 games in a full season put up 100 points and make the playoffs.

Been there, done that now what matters is playoffs

 

[Racer88]

I stand by what I said - up to this point in their careers, Aho and Rantanen have outperformed Money Mitch by a huge margin in the playoffs. Are you trying to change the subject to McDavid because you can't defend your position?

I agree with you……..I’m not even sure if Marner would crack the top 18-20 players in the league

 

[Racer88]

Dubas fielded a great team. The key players choked or were injured. If we don’t perform in the playoffs this year heads will roll.

Because the key players choked are they really a great team?
I would have a tough time calling a team that has lost 1st round 5 years in a row and especially the last 3 a great team

 

[notbias]

I stand by what I said - up to this point in their careers, Aho and Rantanen have outperformed Money Mitch by a huge margin in the playoffs. Are you trying to change the subject to McDavid because you can't defend your position?

I am simply asking if this applies to all players or just Marner because McDavid has been outperformed by Rantanen.

Your argument for Rantanen (actually fair to compare him to Marner) and Aho (who is obviously not on the same level) is that they performed better than Marner in the playoffs. I really just want to know if Rantanen is better than McDavid since he outperforms him in the playoffs by a good margin.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Because it's not 2017 anymore and nobody gives a f***

There is in fact a regular season every single year, and both current and past regular seasons can be discussed, even if the year is not 2017. The statement you quoted and the discussion you entered (which I did not even start) was about the regular season, not the playoffs. Perhaps you should focus on discussions about the playoffs, if that's what you're interested in.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree with you……..I’m not even sure if Marner would crack the top 18-20 players in the league

Evaluating Marner seems pretty tricky at this point.

I am simply asking if this applies to all players or just Marner because McDavid has been outperformed by Rantanen.

Your argument for Rantanen (actually fair to compare him to Marner) and Aho (who is obviously not on the same level) is that they performed better than Marner in the playoffs. I really just want to know if Rantanen is better than McDavid since he outperforms him in the playoffs by a good margin.

You're overthinking this. All I said was that up to this point in their careers, Aho and Rantanen have both played better than Marner in the playoffs. Does that mean that they're "better players"? That would be a different discussion but before changing the subject, why don't first say if you agree or disagree with what I said?

As far as McDavid vs Rantanen, if I had to pick one of them to play for me in the playoffs if they started a week from now, I take McDavid easily. Now you could argue that Rantanen has outplayed him in the playoffs, maybe that's true and maybe it's not true but it's at least an interesting discussion. But even if it is true, that doesn't mean it will be true going forward and IMO there isn't a single GM in the NHL that would choose Rantanen over McDavid. Now ask those same GM's who they would take between Marner/Aho/Rantanen if the playoffs started a week from now, it would be more interesting. My guess is that some might choose Marner but he would get the least votes between the 3.

As far as Aho not even being on the same level as Marner, yeah I don't think that's true at all. I guess you could say that Marner has been a tier above Aho during the regular season but in the playoffs, the opposite is true. So who's the better player? I guess it depends what you value more, regular season performace or playoff performance. You might feel differently but I think the playoffs are more important myself.