Has Dubas failed at his job?

[acrobaticgoalie]

Yeah I’m sure Marner and Matthews choking in every elimination game they have played for us with Zero goals had nothing to do with our losses. Three playoffs in a row without Kadri is who’s fault I’m wondering. Blame that on Kadri to what the heck eh

And Colorado?

How does Kadri showing heart by throwing a dirty hit in game 3 and being in the press box for games 4-7 help anyone's situation. It ruined our center depth which was a strength for us against the Bruins when they had Bergeron and Krejci. People keep going to bat for a guy that is constantly suspended. Again you can have a heart and soul player that isn't an idiot and costs your team constantly.

Marner and Matthews choking is a separate issue and im not forgiving of that at all. They are solely the reason we lost against MTL this year. That plus the power play, which is on the coaching staff.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Both but he didn't improve with the 2nd one.

Under Babcock: 25 point pace
Under Keefe: 56 point pace

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Both but he didn't improve with the 2nd one.

Lol yes he did.
Toronto Maple Leafs: Tyson Barrie Will Blow Your Mind This Post-Season

7pts in 23 games for .30ppg Under Babcock which would put him at a pace of 24 over 82 games.

32 pts in 47 games for .68ppg under Keefe which would put him at a pace of 55 pts in 82 games. Which is around what he usually gets in most seasons.

So much for your statement about Dubas' coach.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Lol yes he did.
Toronto Maple Leafs: Tyson Barrie Will Blow Your Mind This Post-Season

7pts in 23 games for .30ppg Under Babcock which would put him at a pace of 24 over 82 games.

32 pts in 47 games for .68ppg under Keefe which would put him at a pace of 55 pts in 82 games. Which is around what he usually gets in most seasons.

So much for your statement about Dubas' coach.

Barrie was a complete gong show on defense is why I couldn’t stomach him. Good guy though. Not the kind of defensive defenseman we needed.
Dubas thinks he is smarter than the game. The game proves him wrong every playoff. If he doesn’t think he is smarter why would he build completely different than his mentor Lou Lam. Lou is successful for a reason. He builds teams like he has the Islanders in-the same way for years. His teams are a nasty out. We aren’t. Players even said we are so easy to play against. What a insult and then Dubas puts the same soft product right back the next year. He’s not that wise until this off season a d i wish him the best. He was terrible to this point. He caught on this summer finally

 

[killer1980]

Lol yes he did.
Toronto Maple Leafs: Tyson Barrie Will Blow Your Mind This Post-Season

7pts in 23 games for .30ppg Under Babcock which would put him at a pace of 24 over 82 games.

32 pts in 47 games for .68ppg under Keefe which would put him at a pace of 55 pts in 82 games. Which is around what he usually gets in most seasons.

So much for your statement about Dubas' coach.

Big deal! He had 48 pts in 56 ganes for .85 in Edmonton & was +4. For the Leafs he was -7. He was traded to get his Edmonton stats not his Keefe stats. And in the end, he didn't want the Leafs and the Leafs didn't want him.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Barrie was a complete gong show on defense is why I couldn’t stomach him. Good guy though. Not the kind of defensive defenseman we needed.
Dubas thinks he is smarter than the game. The game proves him wrong every playoff. If he doesn’t think he is smarter why would he build completely different than his mentor Lou Lam. Lou is successful for a reason. He builds teams like he has the Islanders in-the same way for years. His teams are a nasty out. We aren’t. Players even said we are so easy to play against. What a insult and then Dubas puts the same soft product right back the next year. He’s not that wise until this off season a d i wish him the best. He was terrible to this point. He caught on this summer finally

I agree Barrie isn't the type of D man we needed and he wasn't Dubas' initial trade target. Brodie was. Kadri blocked the trade to Calgary. Everyone in the hockey world thought Dubas got good value in the Barrie trade. Getting a 50 pt d man at 2.5M and a replacement 3rd line center was great value. Barrie sucked under Babcock and then Keefe came in and he started playing him to his strengths. Yes Barrie is soft and a wreck defensively and he is not who i would go after.

Lou had tough players here in Martin, Komorov and Polak. Were we a tougher team with them than we are with Muzzin, Simmonds and Bogosian? No. We were a soft team then that choked as we are now. So I dont get this Narrative that Dubas built a soft team. Also Lou inherited that roster in NY. More or less all he has added to that roster was bringing back Martin and Komorov and had several different goalies. He did not build a tough team there.

Dubas has slowly been adding gritty players like Muzzin, Simmonds, Bogo, Thornton, Gabriel, Bunting, Ritchie. Until our core grows a pair and starts doing what it takes to win in the playoffs, nothing is going to change. They play scared or don't have that extra gear like Point and Kucherov have. If they find it, we will dominate.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Aligns with his comparable on the Leafs (Nylander) quite well actually.

Comparing a guy who played in the NHL directly after being drafted to a player who's first full season was 3 years later seems a little wrong no?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I agree Barrie isn't the type of D man we needed and he wasn't Dubas' initial trade target. Brodie was. Kadri blocked the trade to Calgary. Everyone in the hockey world thought Dubas got good value in the Barrie trade. Getting a 50 pt d man at 2.5M and a replacement 3rd line center was great value. Barrie sucked under Babcock and then Keefe came in and he started playing him to his strengths. Yes Barrie is soft and a wreck defensively and he is not who i would go after.

Lou had tough players here in Martin, Komorov and Polak. Were we a tougher team with them than we are with Muzzin, Simmonds and Bogosian? No. We were a soft team then that choked as we are now. So I dont get this Narrative that Dubas built a soft team. Also Lou inherited that roster in NY. More or less all he has added to that roster was bringing back Martin and Komorov and had several different goalies. He did not build a tough team there.

Dubas has slowly been adding gritty players like Muzzin, Simmonds, Bogo, Thornton, Gabriel, Bunting, Ritchie. Until our core grows a pair and starts doing what it takes to win in the playoffs, nothing is going to change. They play scared or don't have that extra gear like Point and Kucherov have. If they find it, we will dominate.

I didn’t like the deal initially and criticized it right away. Everyone knew what barrie was for years. We traded what was one of the best value contracts in the league at the time. I still don’t like it but Kerfoot has work ethic as. Good as anyone. Trying not to disrespect Kerfoot gecause he doesn’t deserve that hut he’s not much of a shutdown center. We lost one and got a winger and a weak defensive defenseman in return.
I remember lots that didn’t like the deal on this board

 

[DarkKnight]

Lol yes he did.
Toronto Maple Leafs: Tyson Barrie Will Blow Your Mind This Post-Season

7pts in 23 games for .30ppg Under Babcock which would put him at a pace of 24 over 82 games.

32 pts in 47 games for .68ppg under Keefe which would put him at a pace of 55 pts in 82 games. Which is around what he usually gets in most seasons.

So much for your statement about Dubas' coach.

He had a hot start under Keefe then degraded from there, to the point Keefe was continually sheltering him like a raw rookie, even when we had other vets out injured. He dined on meaningless secondary assists, one of the worst ratios of any offensive d men. He was disaster here, thank god he’s gone, whomever was the coach.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I didn’t like the deal initially and criticized it right away. Everyone knew what barrie was for years. We traded what was one of the best value contracts in the league at the time. I still don’t like it but Kerfoot has work ethic as. Good as anyone. Trying not to disrespect Kerfoot gecause he doesn’t deserve that hut he’s not much of a shutdown center. We lost one and got a winger and a weak defensive defenseman in return.
I remember lots that didn’t like the deal on this board

Again I agree about the trade target but the value was good. Kadri had worn out his welcome and I think we are better off with Kerfoot and Brodie than we are with Kadri. Kerfoot is good defensively and gets a lot of flack around here for some reason. I'm assuming because he's only 5 '10? He was our 2nd best player in the playoffs behind Nylander. Which is a problem

 

[Hclass47]

Dubas has improved the roster every year with the same results. Unfortunately he is handcuffed by the big 4 contracts and lack of playoff production from them. As a rookie gm could he really afford to let his stars take turns sitting? He’s had to clean up and move some players / contracts as well. Under the circumstances He’s done his job well

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

He had a hot start under Keefe then degraded from there, to the point Keefe was continually sheltering him like a raw rookie, even when we had other vets out injured. He dined on meaningless secondary assists, one of the worst ratios of any offensive d men. He was disaster here, thank god he’s gone, whomever was the coach.

When would he have been sheltered? Keefe was hired in November and then we Lost Rielly, Muzzin and Ceci to injuries for like4-5weeks around January/February before the shutdown. We ended up throwing 2 rookies into the lineup in Sandin and Lilly and had Marincin playing top 4 minutes. So Barrie wouldve had to play big minutes. Maybe in the Play in round he got sheltered.

I agree he was a defensive mess and Brodie is much better.

 

[Crosscrease14]

Dubas has improved the roster every year with the same results. Unfortunately he is handcuffed by the big 4 contracts and lack of playoff production from them. As a rookie gm could he really afford to let his stars take turns sitting? He’s had to clean up and move some players / contracts as well. Under the circumstances He’s done his job well

Dubas handcuffed himself signing those deals. I agree he's made some solid moves around the edges but the core of this team hasn't given any reason to believe they will be successful in the playoffs. He's bet on them time after time and failed. 5 years of data is pretty conclusive. It's not working.

 

[DarkKnight]

When would he have been sheltered? Keefe was hired in November and then we Lost Rielly, Muzzin and Ceci to injuries for like4-5weeks around January/February before the shutdown. We ended up throwing 2 rookies into the lineup in Sandin and Lilly and had Marincin playing top 4 minutes. So Barrie wouldve had to play big minutes. Maybe in the Play in round he got sheltered.

I agree he was a defensive mess and Brodie is much better.

Exactly, even with all those injuries Keefe wouldn’t put him out for D zone starts or against top lines, or to hold a lead. I watched it, happened routinely, it was embarrassing. He got his minutes, but they mask the situational coaching. Anyways, old news, but I’m not going to forget and polish that turd, he was garbage and showed no leadership when the vet went down.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Dubas has improved the roster every year with the same results. Unfortunately he is handcuffed by the big 4 contracts and lack of playoff production from them. As a rookie gm could he really afford to let his stars take turns sitting? He’s had to clean up and move some players / contracts as well. Under the circumstances He’s done his job well

There are only the big 3. Nylander has a great contract.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Comparing a guy who played in the NHL directly after being drafted to a player who's first full season was 3 years later seems a little wrong no?

There is not 3 years between them. Svechnikov started in the NHL at 18, and Nylander started in the NHL at 19. The contracts are still consistent with each other when context such as age, linemates, scoring levels, etc. are factored in. I'm sure there are better comparables than Nylander, but it doesn't seem to stop people from bringing up our contracts every time another team signs one.

 

[killer1980]

Dubas has improved the roster every year with the same results. Unfortunately he is handcuffed by the big 4 contracts and lack of playoff production from them. As a rookie gm could he really afford to let his stars take turns sitting? He’s had to clean up and move some players / contracts as well. Under the circumstances He’s done his job well

I get it, he's getting good lousy players but sticks with his lousy good players. Makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps that's the reason we lost in the 1st round to the 18th ranked team last year and didn't make the playoffs the year before. He's done his job real well.

 

[myleafs]

The habs of the mid 70’s were a close second as whining yellow little pieces of crap ha. [/B]He’s a dead man walking as G.M

Its funny you use the Habs as a reference....While I agree that I personally like a more engaged kind of effort I would gladly take a yellow belly kind of team if it means four consecutive Stanley Cups and a 60-8 record. In saying that, those habs were not a pushover, they had guys like Larry Robinson who was gentle til he wasn't, Guy bouchard, Doug Risebrough, Pierre Bouchard, Chris Nilan, John Ferguson. That was a team that had to tangle with the broad street bullies and Boston. The more I think about it that team were not even close to the passiveness that is the Leafs.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Under Babcock: 25 point pace
Under Keefe: 56 point pace

Small sample size. Means nothing.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Its funny you use the Habs as a reference....While I agree that I personally like a more engaged kind of effort I would gladly take a yellow belly kind of team if it means four consecutive Stanley Cups and a 60-8 record. In saying that, those habs were not a pushover, they had guys like Larry Robinson who was gentle til he wasn't, Guy bouchard, Doug Risebrough, Pierre Bouchard, Chris Nilan, John Ferguson. That was a team that had to tangle with the broad street bullies and Boston. The more I think about it that team were not even close to the passiveness that is the Leafs.

They were a weasel weasel team ha. Bunch of drama queens. Got favouritism from refs too. You couldn’t touch them and they’d dive and pout. It was gross. Big bird was nasty.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

There is not 3 years between them. Svechnikov started in the NHL at 18, and Nylander started in the NHL at 19. The contracts are still consistent with each other when context such as age, linemates, scoring levels, etc. are factored in. I'm sure there are better comparables than Nylander, but it doesn't seem to stop people from bringing up our contracts every time another team signs one.

Nylander played 22 games at the end of that season. No matter how you spin it, one played directly after being drafted while the other had their first full season 3 years later. Definitely agree there are better comparables though perhaps not on the leafs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Small sample size. Means nothing.

What it means is that he did in fact see increased point totals under Keefe.

one played directly after being drafted while the other had their first full season 3 years later.

Svechnikov was 18. Nylander was 19. It was a year and a half difference in draft years.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

What it means is that he did in fact see increased point totals under Keefe.

Svechnikov was 18. Nylander was 19. It was a year and a half difference in draft years.

Repeating something disingenuous doesn't make you right

 

[All Mod Cons]

What it means is that he did in fact see increased point totals under Keefe.

Small sample size. We can't take anything from those numbers. You've said it thousands of times.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Repeating something disingenuous doesn't make you right

It's not disingenuous at all. I noted the difference in both age and draft year. If anything, disingenuous would be making it seem like there was some 3 year difference when Nylander was in the NHL for good a season and a half after being drafted.

Small sample size. We can't take anything from those numbers. You've said it thousands of times.

We're not evaluating Barrie as a player. We're answering one very simple question - did his point totals increase under Keefe. The answer is yes.