Has Cale Makar already surpassed a prime Erik Karlsson in just his first 4 years?

[Erik Alfredsson]

I see same pattern in every thread related to Karlsson. It's like your life mission. Chill and enjoy the summer.

How many Karlsson related threads are there? As if you're this sensitive towards someone using a hockey discussion forum to discuss hockey.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

If you replace the 80s and 90s Bruins Bourque with Karlsson it's a guarantee that the Bruins take two cups from the Oilers.

And we're left wondering why the Oilers only won 3 cups. Was Gretzky truly one of the best players of all time? Or just had the luck to play for a powerhouse.

The conversation for all time GOAT between Karlsson Gretzky Orr and Lemieux doesn't look so one sided anymore.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

so many what if , if only , what if they had just, he would have , he could have , he would have been, he could have done it, if only it had gone some other way, with the right team behind him scenarios for Karlsson

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Wrong trophy.

I do think the era of giving postseason awards much weight is over. It made sense when the only people who could watch most hockey games were the sports writers. Not anymore.

This isn't to say Makar didn't deserve the 2021-22 Norris at all. He is a very deserving candidate.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

If you replace the 80s and 90s Bruins Bourque with Karlsson it's a guarantee that the Bruins take two cups from the Oilers.

And we're left wondering why the Oilers only won 3 cups. Was Gretzky truly one of the best players of all time? Or just had the luck to play for a powerhouse.

The conversation for all time GOAT between Karlsson Gretzky Orr and Lemieux doesn't look so one sided anymore.

The only people bringing up guys like Bourque and Orr are rabid Avalanche and Makar fans. Nobody in their right mind would compare Karlsson to those guys, because there's an attempt on one side of the discussion to apply a little thought and nuance to their opinions.

 

[Asinine]

First it was Makar vs Hughes
Then it was Makar vs Fox
Now it's Makar vs Karlsson

Sens fans, there's no amount of crying you can do to prevent the inevitable. Just let it happen. Makar is your new daddy.

 

[AvsFan29]

Why are you telling me this? I'm not the one who started the thread comparing Makar to other players from the past. If you ask me my opinion on Cale Makar as a player I would have overwhelmingly positive things to say about him. He obviously has very high potential to get even better as well, nobody's disputing that.

So I can just as easily say to you that saying he's not better than prime Erik Karlsson (which is what the discussion of this thread is, so again, go direct this post at the person who created the thread) is not a shot at Makar's legacy or potential. There's no need to go on a tangent about how we need to appreciate great players because nobody in here is saying Makar isn't great.


Wow, what an intelligent retort.

Your opinion was so bad it isn't worthy of one

The only people bringing up guys like Bourque and Orr are rabid Avalanche and Makar fans. Nobody in their right mind would compare Karlsson to those guys, because there's an attempt on one side of the discussion to apply a little thought and nuance to their opinions.

The reason people keep bringing up Orr, is because he's the only player in history with a better start to his career.

 

[Synesthesia]

I feel like it's difficult to compare based on the supporting casts around the teams. Makar will almost assuredly never play on a bad team during his prime, so it's hard to see how his production and gameplay would look like on that. I'm inclined to say Makar is equal to prime Karlsson at this point (independently of the cup win), but the comparison is just difficult to make and I'm not sure why this comparison needs to be made period; it's just a fanbase ego reassuring thing at this point.

...but man, is this thread a toxic cesspool of internet insecure edgelords, lol. "at least makar can play defense!!! please like my comment so i can flaunt my e-penis!!!!!!!!"

 

[Frank Drebin]

Makar is this generations ray bourque

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Tell me Karlsson was ever as dominant as this and I’ll call you a f***ing liar. Makar is simultaneously miles ahead defensively.

Lmao, you really though you did something with this post? How about just a video of Karlsson in one game to rival that. One game. Either you are 12 years old and never witnessed Karlsson, or you are the liar.

By the way, look at his freaking line mates in multiple shifts: Conacher, Zack Smith, Chris Neil, Greening, WIngles. Everyone fumbling his plays could have had 3-4 more points.



Here is a masterclass in all 3 zones.



Waiting for you to call me a liar, lol.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Lest we forget his own playoff run where he made the best pass of all time and one of the best plays in recent playoff history. He was also part of 90% of Sens points in final 2 playoff rounds or something insane of that sort. Don’t give me this bs of thinking Makar is better let alone clearly better, lmao.

Dear God I can’t imagine EK playing with another top 5 player in the world in both C and W, lmao.

Watch from 4:35. He wasn’t just making end-to-end rushes and spinoramas in his own zone like Makar in his video. He was literally dictating everything on the ice and scored and made more incredible individual efforts than Makar ever did this playoff run. Don’t ever give me that confident ass Makar is better bs.

 

[Rengorlex]

Makar is the more evolved version of Karlsson. The way he can skate it boggles my mind. That open-hip way of skating where it's impossible to predict which way he's going. It didn't exist 10 years ago. And now juniors will be emulating McDavid and Makar in their skating which will bring forth an even better generation.

 

[Dominance]

Lmao, you really though you did something with this post? How about just a video of Karlsson in one game to rival that. One game. Either you are 12 years old and never witnessed Karlsson, or you are the liar.

By the way, look at his freaking line mates in multiple shifts: Conacher, Zack Smith, Chris Neil, Greening, WIngles. Everyone fumbling his plays could have had 3-4 more points.



Here is a masterclass in all 3 zones.



Waiting for you to call me a liar, lol.

Yeah, Karlsson doesn’t really touch Makar. It will be easier on you the sooner you accept it, and understand that it doesn’t take away from Karlsson’s HHOF-worthy career.

The insistence by a tiny handful of Sens fans that Karlsson was good defensively during his peak, and the constant claims that the huge majority saying otherwise never watched him play, is truly something to behold.

 

[tacogeoff]

Makar is an outstanding player. Prime EK was godly though.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Yeah, Karlsson doesn’t really touch Makar. It will be easier on you the sooner you accept it, and understand that it doesn’t take away from Karlsson’s HHOF-worthy career.

The insistence by a tiny handful of Sens fans that Karlsson was good defensively during his peak, and the constant claims that the huge majority saying otherwise never watched him play, is truly something to behold.

You posted a video and I did so in return with plays that are just as insane. Matter of fact, Karlsson’s plays in the video(s) I posted are far, far more impressive. Makar has nothing close to EK’s best pass in history. Makar still has nothing similar to EK’s play on Brassard goal.

Your last paragraph is an absolute joke. Karlsson in 2017 playoffs was absolutely insane defensively. Both eye test and stats.

Makar was 4th on his team in plus minus with Karlsson a clear untouched front runner with metrics defensively that were jaw dropping.

He dictated the entire ice for his team as the one and only guy. Prove to me EK wasn’t good defensively in his peak. The videos I posted have several NHL players and personnel claiming EK the best in the world or best defender in the league or a complete defender and posters on here, average joes are more credible, right? Lol.

Recency bias and age is showing in your post. Keep posting nothing but one sided opinions, bud.

 

[Dominance]

You posted a video and I did so in return with plays that are just as insane. Matter of fact, Karlsson’s plays in the video(s) I posted are far, far more impressive. Makar has nothing close to EK’s best pass in history. Makar still has nothing similar to EK’s play on Brassard goal.

Your last paragraph is an absolute joke. Karlsson in 2017 playoffs was absolutely insane defensively. Both eye test and stats.

Makar was 4th on his team in plus minus with Karlsson a clear untouched front runner with metrics defensively that were jaw dropping.

He dictated the entire ice for his team as the one and only guy. Prove to me EK wasn’t good defensively in his peak. The videos I posted have several NHL players and personnel claiming EK the best in the world or best defender in the league or a complete defender and posters on here, average joes are more credible, right? Lol.

Recency bias and age is showing in your post. Keep posting nothing but one sided opinions, bud.

That’s a lot of unfounded superlatives for someone complaining about opinions.

You’re in the minority. You’re just wasting your effort frantically trying to convince people who watched Karlsson play for years that he was a good defender, and likewise I wish you good luck convincing many that Karlsson was more dynamic than Makar already is.

 

[avsfan9]

I feel like it's difficult to compare based on the supporting casts around the teams. Makar will almost assuredly never play on a bad team during his prime, so it's hard to see how his production and gameplay would look like on that. I'm inclined to say Makar is equal to prime Karlsson at this point (independently of the cup win), but the comparison is just difficult to make and I'm not sure why this comparison needs to be made period; it's just a fanbase ego reassuring thing at this point.

...but man, is this thread a toxic cesspool of internet insecure edgelords, lol. "at least makar can play defense!!! please like my comment so i can flaunt my e-penis!!!!!!!!"

No one ever doubted Coffeys abilities because he played on great teams. He was always just considered one of the best d men to ever play the game. Same as all the greats, same as Karlsson, Doughty, Makar , Neidermayer, Pronger etc…. Great d men are great no matter who they play for. I’ve never really heard any comparisons like this until Makar came along and now Karlsson fans are just grasping at straws trying to diminish Makars accomplishments. The kid is great and off to one of the best starts in nhl history for a defensman. Let’s enjoy greatness unfolding before our eyes.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

The only people bringing up guys like Bourque and Orr are rabid Avalanche and Makar fans. Nobody in their right mind would compare Karlsson to those guys, because there's an attempt on one side of the discussion to apply a little thought and nuance to their opinions.

Makar is mentioned with those types of names because of his Smythe and Norris trophy in the same season.

Pointless to compare a career of 20 something years to career of three years.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Lest we forget his own playoff run where he made the best pass of all time and one of the best plays in recent playoff history. He was also part of 90% of Sens points in final 2 playoff rounds or something insane of that sort. Don’t give me this bs of thinking Makar is better let alone clearly better, lmao.

Dear God I can’t imagine EK playing with another top 5 player in the world in both C and W, lmao.

Watch from 4:35. He wasn’t just making end-to-end rushes and spinoramas in his own zone like Makar in his video. He was literally dictating everything on the ice and scored and made more incredible individual efforts than Makar ever did this playoff run. Don’t ever give me that confident ass Makar is better bs.

Makar isn't a finished product yet. He will learn new things.

 

[who_me?]

Mikhail Makarov > Eric Carlson

 

[Synesthesia]

No one ever doubted Coffeys abilities because he played on great teams. He was always just considered one of the best d men to ever play the game. Same as all the greats, same as Karlsson, Doughty, Makar , Neidermayer, Pronger etc…. Great d men are great no matter who they play for. I’ve never really heard any comparisons like this until Makar came along and now Karlsson fans are just grasping at straws trying to diminish Makars accomplishments. The kid is great and off to one of the best starts in nhl history for a defensman. Let’s enjoy greatness unfolding before our eyes.

I absolutely agree with you on almost all points - except the part I bolded. Perhaps it's just because I only seldom read around these parts, but I always felt like most comparisons were made with exactly the opposite intent, i.e. justifying how Karlsson wasn't that great. Perhaps it's just a matter of perspective, however. Whichever way the narrative goes, I'm 100% on board with the fact Makar is turning out to be absolutely special and it's a treat to see it unfold in front of us.

 

[TheBeard]

You’re in the minority. You’re just wasting your effort frantically trying to convince people who watched Karlsson play for years that he was a good defender, and likewise I wish you good luck convincing many that Karlsson was more dynamic than Makar already is.

We've now officially reached the portion of the debate where it's no longer about the players, but about the posters. Frankly, it's embarrassing that people are willing to crap on their fellow posters because they demand to be told they're right.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Makar is mentioned with those types of names because of his Smythe and Norris trophy in the same season.

Pointless to compare a career of 20 something years to career of three years.

Okay and if I went and said Karlsson is comparable to Orr because they're the only 2 defenseman in NHL history to lead the league in assists then you'd probably take issue with that.

Your opinion was so bad it isn't worthy of one


The reason people keep bringing up Orr, is because he's the only player in history with a better start to his career.

Karlsson won a Norris at 21, the same age Makar was when he first entered the league, and was being called arguably the best player in the league the next season at the age of 22. So that's also misleading.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Okay and if I went and said Karlsson is comparable to Orr because they're the only 2 defenseman in NHL history to lead the league in assists then you'd probably take issue with that.


Karlsson won a Norris at 21, the same age Makar was when he first entered the league, and was being called arguably the best player in the league the next season at the age of 22. So that's also misleading.

Lol leading the league in assist is great but that's a minor regular season accomplishment. Norris plus Smythe is far more significant.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Lol leading the league in assist is great but that's a minor regular season accomplishment. Norris plus Smythe is far more significant.

I wouldn't call either things a minor accomplishment. If it were minor, then more than 2 or 3 defensemen in NHL history would've done it.