Has Cale Makar already surpassed a prime Erik Karlsson in just his first 4 years?

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ACLEVERNAME

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Just watching highlights of the parade I was floored when I noticed Cale has a striking resemblance to Geddy Lee. I've watched/seen the guys face countless times and I've never noticed. Must have the blood of the gods running through him. Count me an official fanatic.
 

Erik Alfredsson

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Some people in this thread are using a four game series against the Oilers as proof of Makar being the best player in the world.
Not even the four game series (because he actually gave up 5 goals and was a -1 when he shared the ice with McDavid). They're letting a twitter video where someone clipped 5 defensive plays against McDavid as proof as why he's the best in the world. They didn't watch the series, or if they did, they weren't paying attention. I didn't see anyone talking about the defensive lapses he had. He was on the ice for 24 EV goals against, in 20 games. Karlsson for reference, was on the ice for 11 EV goals against in 19 games in 2017. Even Bieksa on the Sportnet panel (and SN was all in on the Makar hype, rightfully so, he overall did have a great playoffs) was talking about how much Makar was struggling defensively against Tampa. Like how the hell are people seeing Makar as the vastly superior defensive player? You'd either have to be extremely biased to think that, or just not have watched both very closely. As someone who didn't miss a game for either one of these players for their respective playoff runs, there was indeed a substantial difference in defensive game between the two players, but it was Karlsson who was the superior defensive player, not Makar.
 
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Dominance

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Clearly a lot of people didn't watch Karlsson outside of highlights, because when he was asked to play conservative and focusing on shutting down the opposition defensively, he was always elite at doing it. The problem was he was always asked to carry the team offensively, which meant taking a lot of risks, and risks don't always work out. There's a reason everyone refers to 2016-17 as his peak season, even though his scoring was actually a bit lower from previous seasons, and that's because the new coach actually implemented a proper system, and Karlsson didn't have to do literally everything himself.

If you actually watched both Makar and Karlsson play, you will notice that the two have a different approach to the game, and different responsibilities as players. Because Colorado is a lot deeper than any of the Ottawa teams that Karlsson played on, Makar tends to "pick his spots". He's not going balls-to-the-walls, driving the play, controlling the pace of the game every time he's out on the ice, which is how Karlsson played during his prime. Makar holds onto the puck a whole lot less than Karlsson did, and his typical shift is him passing the puck off to a teammate to rush up the ice, waiting for the right moment for space to open up in the offensive zone, and then he'll use his speed to get open and create a dangerous scoring chance. That's different than what Karlsson's typical shift looked like, which was try to breakup the play in the defensive zone, skate the puck out of danger, skate the puck up the ice, circle around in the offensive zone with the puck until a teammate gets open. Karlsson never had the luxury of picking his spots, when he stepped out onto the ice, everyone on the other team knew to focus all their attention on him. Makar never had that problem, he has MacKinnon and Rantanen to divert the attention away from him. He's allowed to sit back and get lost in the play, which is exactly when he burns you. Nobody ever looked off Karlsson, and if you did, you coach was not going to be very pleased with you.

I'm not sure why Makar's defensive game is being talked about like he was way better than Karlsson. I actually found him to be far worse defensively this past playoffs than Karlsson was during the 2017 run. Makar was particularly bad against Tampa Bay in the finals, made a lot of egregious defensive errors in his own end, and at important times in the game as well. And for a guy who has the luxury of playing a much more conservative style than Karlsson ever did, that's simply unacceptable if the claim is going to be that he already surpassed him.
This sure is a lot of falsities and opinions presented as realities and facts.

Karlsson was always overrated, but most certainly never touched the level of play away from the puck Makar has already shown at 23. This is so clear to anyone who watched both players that you’re not going to convince anyone to the contrary, so you may as well save the effort.
 

Erik Alfredsson

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This sure is a lot of falsities and opinions presented as realities and facts.

Karlsson was always overrated, but most certainly never touched the level of play away from the puck Makar has already shown at 23. This is so clear to anyone who watched both players that you’re not going to convince anyone to the contrary, so you may as well save the effort.
Nothing I said in my post is even remotely close to offensive for anyone who actually watched these two play closely. The descriptions I gave of both these players shouldn't really be controversial to anyone who is knowledgeable and well versed on how these guys approach the game. Making a post like this just reveals yourself as someone who lacks either the knowledge of the game, or the time spent watching these players closely. I don't blame you for either of these (I'm not sure why anyone would've watched many Ottawa Senators games from 2012-2017, let alone remembered them, unless you were a fan), but I do blame you then for thinking your understanding of these players is at a level that you can make a credible analysis on how they were as players.
 

Eltuna

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Tell me Karlsson was ever as dominant as this and I’ll call you a f***ing liar. Makar is simultaneously miles ahead defensively.

Awesome video thanks for sharing, he’s the most dominant defenceman I have ever seen. I think next year will be the last year that Karlsson comparisons will be made by even the biggest of Karlsson fans, he’s going to quickly start to get compared to the greatest defenceman to ever play like Bourque, Orr, and Lidstrom. He’s that good.
 

Buck Naked

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Awesome video thanks for sharing, he’s the most dominant defenceman I have ever seen. I think next year will be the last year that Karlsson comparisons will be made by even the biggest of Karlsson fans, he’s going to quickly start to get compared to the greatest defenceman to ever play like Bourque, Orr, and Lidstrom. He’s that good.

And this is why he is severely overrated. Poor kid!
 

Puckstop40

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There are going to be a lot of people chomping at the bit the second Makar has any sort of struggle to make threads about him. It’s way too early to compare him to Lidstrom, Orr, Bourque. Let’s hope he stays healthy. I do believe he possesses generational talent, so hopefully he can continue to excel. I also believe Makar’s defensive game is underrated as was Karlsson’s.
 
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Sergei Shirokov

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Makar is like having a superstar scoring forward, except he plays the D position.

His combo of speed, explosiveness (acceleration), & escapability is up there with McDavid. Which is the foundation of his game. Plus having an absolute cannon of a wrist shot & 1 timer, along with high offensive IQ.

His area of 'weakness' is defensive zone coverage (I'm thinking of the game 5 Palat GWG), and being prone to the odd bad turnover. (Stamkos opening goal game 6).

That said those issues seem to be more-so 'inconsistencies' than 'inabilities/weaknesses', after-all he's still a very young player.

Not ready to start saying he's better than all-time greats just yet, but he's definitely got that level of talent.
 

Jordan Belfort

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Tell me Karlsson was ever as dominant as this and I’ll call you a f***ing liar. Makar is simultaneously miles ahead defensively.

I mean looks cool and all but he does not really achieve anything. Fancy with the puck but a player like Josi still outscored him without doing all this stuff
 

Dominance

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I mean looks cool and all but he does not really achieve anything. Fancy with the puck but a player like Josi still outscored him without doing all this stuff
Pathetic take either way, really doing a brilliant job of showing a fundamental lack of understanding of hockey to be honest, but that video was only of the playoffs. Praying your post was really, really subtle sarcasm.
 
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Not even the four game series (because he actually gave up 5 goals and was a -1 when he shared the ice with McDavid). They're letting a twitter video where someone clipped 5 defensive plays against McDavid as proof as why he's the best in the world. They didn't watch the series, or if they did, they weren't paying attention. I didn't see anyone talking about the defensive lapses he had. He was on the ice for 24 EV goals against, in 20 games. Karlsson for reference, was on the ice for 11 EV goals against in 19 games in 2017. Even Bieksa on the Sportnet panel (and SN was all in on the Makar hype, rightfully so, he overall did have a great playoffs) was talking about how much Makar was struggling defensively against Tampa. Like how the hell are people seeing Makar as the vastly superior defensive player? You'd either have to be extremely biased to think that, or just not have watched both very closely. As someone who didn't miss a game for either one of these players for their respective playoff runs, there was indeed a substantial difference in defensive game between the two players, but it was Karlsson who was the superior defensive player, not Makar.

Okay, we get it. Karlsson is the best defenseman in the world and no one else can replicate his great success.

Happy?

To me this is all nonsense, there's plenty of good defenseman in the league. Karlsson used to be one for example. Now we have Makar, Fox, Hedman etc. It's their time to shine. Let's see what they will end up achieving.

Why not cherish that there are other good defenseman just as capable as your favourite? Enjoy.. Why someone always needs to better or worse? It's not personal attack on Karlsson or his legacy if some other player is doing well. Nobody's taking away his legacy.

Makar had a great season. Doesn't make him the best in the world or all time. He needs to do it for a long time before we can discuss those things. Right now I can enjoy his performance and hope it continues for a long time. That's all. I cherish this moment because that's all I got.

Way too much jealousy and insecurities. Why can't we accept that there are a lot of good hockey players? Present, past and all time. They all had their moment.

Makar has achieved a lot for a young career and has potential to do great things, but that's all for now. Potential for greatness. He has a good chance for incredible career. That's about it. It doesn't take away Karlssons greatness.
 
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AvsFan29

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Not even the four game series (because he actually gave up 5 goals and was a -1 when he shared the ice with McDavid). They're letting a twitter video where someone clipped 5 defensive plays against McDavid as proof as why he's the best in the world. They didn't watch the series, or if they did, they weren't paying attention. I didn't see anyone talking about the defensive lapses he had. He was on the ice for 24 EV goals against, in 20 games. Karlsson for reference, was on the ice for 11 EV goals against in 19 games in 2017. Even Bieksa on the Sportnet panel (and SN was all in on the Makar hype, rightfully so, he overall did have a great playoffs) was talking about how much Makar was struggling defensively against Tampa. Like how the hell are people seeing Makar as the vastly superior defensive player? You'd either have to be extremely biased to think that, or just not have watched both very closely. As someone who didn't miss a game for either one of these players for their respective playoff runs, there was indeed a substantial difference in defensive game between the two players, but it was Karlsson who was the superior defensive player, not Makar.
Clown take
 

Buck Naked

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To me this is all nonsense, there's plenty of good defenseman in the league. Karlsson used to be one for example. Now we have Makar, Fox, Hedman etc. It's their time to shine. Let's see what they will end up achieving.

Why not cherish that there are other good defenseman just as capable as your favourite? Enjoy.. Why someone always needs to better or worse? It's not personal attack on Karlsson or his legacy if some other player is doing well. Nobody's taking away his legacy.

Makar had a great season. Doesn't make him the best in the world or all time. He needs to do it for a long time before we can discuss those things. Right now I can enjoy his performance and hope it continues for a long time. That's all. I cherish this moment because that's all I got.

Way too much jealousy and insecurities. Why can't we accept that there are a lot of good hockey players? Present, past and all time. They all had their moment.

Makar has achieved a lot for a young career and has potential to do great things, but that's all for now. Potential for greatness. He has a good chance for incredible career. That's about it. It doesn't take away Karlssons greatness.

Wow! One of the first sober takes by an Avs fan in like 50 pages. I applaud you and agree 100%.
 

TruePowerSlave

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This won't be close in a few seasons. That being said, some people really need to dial back the Makar hype. Yes the start has been amazing but it's only his 3rd season. Lets see how this decade goes before even thinking about comparing Makar to Bourque, Lidström etc.
 

TheBeard

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Okay, we get it. Karlsson is the best defenseman in the world and no one else can replicate his great success.

Happy?

To me this is all nonsense, there's plenty of good defenseman in the league. Karlsson used to be one for example. Now we have Makar, Fox, Hedman etc. It's their time to shine. Let's see what they will end up achieving.

Why not cherish that there are other good defenseman just as capable as your favourite? Enjoy.. Why someone always needs to better or worse? It's not personal attack on Karlsson or his legacy if some other player is doing well. Nobody's taking away his legacy.

Makar had a great season. Doesn't make him the best in the world or all time. He needs to do it for a long time before we can discuss those things. Right now I can enjoy his performance and hope it continues for a long time. That's all. I cherish this moment because that's all I got.

Way too much jealousy and insecurities. Why can't we accept that there are a lot of good hockey players? Present, past and all time. They all had their moment.

Makar has achieved a lot for a young career and has potential to do great things, but that's all for now. Potential for greatness. He has a good chance for incredible career. That's about it. It doesn't take away Karlssons greatness.
Because the topic is literally about comparing Makar to EK’s prime.
 
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Erik Alfredsson

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Okay, we get it. Karlsson is the best defenseman in the world and no one else can replicate his great success.

Happy?

To me this is all nonsense, there's plenty of good defenseman in the league. Karlsson used to be one for example. Now we have Makar, Fox, Hedman etc. It's their time to shine. Let's see what they will end up achieving.

Why not cherish that there are other good defenseman just as capable as your favourite? Enjoy.. Why someone always needs to better or worse? It's not personal attack on Karlsson or his legacy if some other player is doing well. Nobody's taking away his legacy.

Makar had a great season. Doesn't make him the best in the world or all time. He needs to do it for a long time before we can discuss those things. Right now I can enjoy his performance and hope it continues for a long time. That's all. I cherish this moment because that's all I got.

Way too much jealousy and insecurities. Why can't we accept that there are a lot of good hockey players? Present, past and all time. They all had their moment.

Makar has achieved a lot for a young career and has potential to do great things, but that's all for now. Potential for greatness. He has a good chance for incredible career. That's about it. It doesn't take away Karlssons greatness.
Why are you telling me this? I'm not the one who started the thread comparing Makar to other players from the past. If you ask me my opinion on Cale Makar as a player I would have overwhelmingly positive things to say about him. He obviously has very high potential to get even better as well, nobody's disputing that.

So I can just as easily say to you that saying he's not better than prime Erik Karlsson (which is what the discussion of this thread is, so again, go direct this post at the person who created the thread) is not a shot at Makar's legacy or potential. There's no need to go on a tangent about how we need to appreciate great players because nobody in here is saying Makar isn't great.

Clown take
Wow, what an intelligent retort.
 

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Why are you telling me this? I'm not the one who started the thread comparing Makar to other players from the past. If you ask me my opinion on Cale Makar as a player I would have overwhelmingly positive things to say about him. He obviously has very high potential to get even better as well, nobody's disputing that.

So I can just as easily say to you that saying he's not better than prime Erik Karlsson (which is what the discussion of this thread is, so again, go direct this post at the person who created the thread) is not a shot at Makar's legacy or potential. There's no need to go on a tangent about how we need to appreciate great players because nobody in here is saying Makar isn't great.


Wow, what an intelligent retort.
I see same pattern in every thread related to Karlsson. It's like your life mission. Chill and enjoy the summer.
 

KevinRedkey

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Personally, I think EK was the 2nd best player in the NHL behind Crosby at one point.
I don't have Makar far behind, but I don't have him in my top 2, so my answer to the OP is no.
 

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