Hart Trophy Talk: MacKinnon, Malkin, Kucherov the Early Favorites, Scoring at Highest Rates By Far.

[StoneHands]

Can people please stop saying Hall is going to win it? It's just not happening. That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to win but he really has no chance.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So how can it be an individual award if it is dependent on the results your team achieves when you are likely not even on the ice? It is NOT a requirement as you say.

It's the #1 requirement? I looked up Hart trophy. Didn't see where it says that only playoff players are eligible.

Okay, when was the last time a guy not on a playoff team won the Hart? I'll wait.

It's clearly an unwritten rule and how the Hart has been awarded for a long time. If you don't make the playoffs, how can you be the "most valuable player"? Who cares if you get a lot of points when you can't even carry your team into a playoff spot?

 

[hockeyguy1967]

How can you be the "most valuable player" if your team sucks? Being on a playoff team is the #1 requirement for the Hart.

"player judged most valuable to his team"
Is there any player more Valuable to his team? He is part of 46% of his teams Goals, next lower is 41%

 

[illpucks]

How would Oiler fans feel about McDavid losing the Hart to Hall?

 

[snag]

Correlation is not causation and does not create an unwritten rule.

And 1988....Mario Lemieux

 

[Empoleon8771]

"player judged most valuable to his team"
Is there any player more Valuable to his team? He is part of 46% of his teams Goals, next lower is 41%

Again, when was the last time the player who won the Hart was not on a playoff team? It doesn't happen.

Every time the Art Ross winner is on a team that misses the playoffs, they do terribly in Hart voting. St. Louis in 2013? Finished 9th in voting. Benn in 2015? Finished 12th in voting. The best I can find for someone's Hart finishing was Iginla finishing 2nd in 2001-2002, but he won both the Richard and Art Ross and was up against some weak competition.

Correlation is not causation and does not create an unwritten rule.

And 1988....Mario Lemieux

Congrats, you have to go back 30 years. That sure proves you don't need to make the playoffs to win the Hart /s

If you're just dismissing it as coincidence, I don't know what to tell you. In recent years, guys who win the Art Ross but miss the playoffs don't even sniff the Hart.

 

[Coffey]

How would Oiler fans feel about McDavid losing the Hart to Hall?

Perfectly fine with it.
Sucks we had to trade Hall. But I'm glad he is succeeding elsewhere.
Most of us keep him close to our hearts since he was the first piece of the rebuild.

 

[Thenameless]

I would like to see McDavid with the Art Ross and MacKinnon win the Hart. That would be cool. Year of the Mac's.

 

[GOilers88]

McDavid is the best player of the season without any question, he is my clear winner. Too bad the Hart has other requirements that need to be filled.

Yeah, no. No team is completely out of it before Christmas. Is it improbable? Sure, but they weren't out of it.

 

[snag]

Again, when was the last time the player who won the Hart was not on a playoff team? It doesn't happen.

Every time the Art Ross winner is on a team that misses the playoffs, they do terribly in Hart voting. St. Louis in 2013? Finished 9th in voting. Benn in 2015? Finished 12th in voting. The best I can find for someone's Hart finishing was Iginla finishing 2nd in 2001-2002, but he won both the Richard and Art Ross and was up against some weak competition.

1988....MARIO LEMIEUX

 

[GOilers88]

How can you be the "most valuable player" if your team sucks? Being on a playoff team is the #1 requirement for the Hart.

It's not MVP. It's the most valuable.player in relation to his own team.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Okay, when was the last time a guy not on a playoff team won the Hart? I'll wait.

It's clearly an unwritten rule and how the Hart has been awarded for a long time. If you don't make the playoffs, how can you be the "most valuable player"? Who cares if you get a lot of points when you can't even carry your team into a playoff spot?

When was the last time the Art Ross winner did not make the playoffs? Ill wait.
How is he supposed to carry his team into the playoffs? He is a Beast in the Ozone and Dzone, plays PP and PK and has the most takeaways in the league. Are you saying someone like Taylor Hall or Nathan McKinnon are better defensively?

 

[Empoleon8771]

1988....MARIO LEMIEUX

Oh wow, because it happened 30 years ago, McDavid's gonna win the Hart today. You proved me wrong!!!!!!!

That's totally more indicative of McDavid's chances than Benn and St. Louis not finishing above 9th in the Hart voting despite winning the Art Ross in 2015 and 2013 respectively.

It's not MVP. It's the most valuable.player in relation to his own team.

And if you're on a crap team, you're not that valuable. It's really easy to see how the award is voted on. If you miss the playoffs, you're out of contention. I don't know why Oilers fans have such a problem with this, it seemed relatively accepted that McDavid wasn't winning the Hart.

When was the last time the Art Ross winner did not make the playoffs? Ill wait.
How is he supposed to carry his team into the playoffs? He is a Beast in the Ozone and Dzone, plays PP and PK and has the most takeaways in the league. Are you saying someone like Taylor Hall or Nathan McKinnon are better defensively?

2015 with Benn. Followed by 2013 with St. Louis. Followed by 2002 with Iginla. None of those guys won the Hart.

 

[snag]

When was the last time the Art Ross winner did not make the playoffs? Ill wait.
How is he supposed to carry his team into the playoffs? He is a Beast in the Ozone and Dzone, plays PP and PK and has the most takeaways in the league. Are you saying someone like Taylor Hall or Nathan McKinnon are better defensively?

No.....they have cerebral implants and control their team mates on the ice while they are on the bench

 

[hockeyguy1967]

His team has needed him all year, did you even watch the Vegas games or you just checking scoreboards? Vegas had a gameplan solely around MacK and he still generated chances, Fleury played amazing. He's been the most dominant player in the NHL all year while healthy so I will give him the benefit of the doubt for 3 games. We will see how he rebounds down the stretch.

If MacK misses playoffs he absolutely falls out of the top 2-3 but not much further than that.
If Hall misses playoffs he's out of the top 5 considering he's not even in the top 8 for scoring.

Even if Colorado misses and NJ makes it I think it's a toss up between Kopitar and Hall at this point.

Oh wow a team with a gameplan around one player, not like McDavid has not had this done his whole career and still produced. The freaking Ducks just circled around in there own zone for a minute into OT refusing to leave there zone until McDavid left the ice.

 

[GOilers88]

Oh wow, because it happened 30 years ago, McDavid's gonna win the Hart today. You proved me wrong!!!!!!!

That's totally more indicative of McDavid's chances than Benn and St. Louis not finishing above 9th in the Hart voting despite winning the Art Ross in 2015 and 2013 respectively.



And if you're on a crap team, you're not that valuable. It's really easy to see how the award is voted on. If you miss the playoffs, you're out of contention. I don't know why Oilers fans have such a problem with this, it seemed relatively accepted that McDavid wasn't winning the Hart.



2015 with Benn. Followed by 2013 with St. Louis. Followed by 2002 with Iginla. None of those guys won the Hart.

You very clearly cannot grasp the concept of "most valuable to his team."

You repeatedly asked for someone to provide you a name and a year so people did.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You very clearly cannot grasp the concept of "most valuable to his team."

You repeatedly asked for someone to provide you a name and a year so people did.

You clearly can't grasp for how the Hart is actually awarded. If your best argument for McDavid deserving the Hart is pointing at Mario Lemieux from 1988, you don't have an actual argument for McDavid getting the Hart. I guarantee he won't even be a finalist.

If you're going to ignore how missing the playoffs hurt St. Louis in 2013 and Benn in 2015, then I can't convince you. You'll just be mad whenever the same thing that has happened consistently happens to McDavid, but don't act like people didn't tell you it would happen.

 

[WiLBoY]

Without McDavid, they would be nearly in the same bottom feeding position. Who cares if he has the most points? Other players have just as a much with less games played but brought their team to the playoffs. Without McDavid on the oilers, little would change

 

[mouz135]

Where would the Oilers be without McDavid? At the bottom of the basement.

Where are the Oilers with McDavid? At the bottom of the basement.

Not MVP worthy. Case closed. Mack or Hall for Hart

 

[GOilers88]

I never said anything about Mario Lemieux...
Multiple other people answered your question though. To which you didn't like the answer...so whatever.

Just because something happens rarely doesn't mean it should never happen again. I don't know how many different times I can actually say I dont think McDavid will get it. But based entirely on the criteria for the award as set forth by the NHL, he fits the bill of "player most valuable to his team" more than anyone else.

 

[Ultimate Bandwagon]

Something interesting to look at:

Mcdavid has points on 45.5% of Edmonton's goals
Although I don't put much stock into +/- as a stat when comparing players from different teams it's definitely telling when comparing the player to his own team. Mcdavid is a +22, while edmonton is a -26.

Hall has points on 37.1 % of NJD goals. +11 on a +1 team
Mackinnon 38.1 % of COL goals. +14 on a +17 team

As someone above mentioned, will Mackinnon and Hall be removed from Hart contention if NJD and COL are 9th place in their respective conferences?

If the argument is that your value can only be substantiated if your team makes the playoffs, then neither Mackinnon nor Hall should be in the running for the Hart if they're eliminated. But clearly there's something wrong with that idea. They've both been super valuable to their teams. So has Mcdavid. The 40 minutes he doesn't play is where all hell breaks loose for his team.

I'm not saying McDavid should win it, but saying he shouldn't just because his team sucks is not right.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Again, when was the last time the player who won the Hart was not on a playoff team? It doesn't happen.

Every time the Art Ross winner is on a team that misses the playoffs, they do terribly in Hart voting. St. Louis in 2013? Finished 9th in voting. Benn in 2015? Finished 12th in voting. The best I can find for someone's Hart finishing was Iginla finishing 2nd in 2001-2002, but he won both the Richard and Art Ross and was up against some weak competition.



Congrats, you have to go back 30 years. That sure proves you don't need to make the playoffs to win the Hart /s

If you're just dismissing it as coincidence, I don't know what to tell you. In recent years, guys who win the Art Ross but miss the playoffs don't even sniff the Hart.

Problem with those three winners is they all went on huge runs the last 4-5 games of the season. With the Hart voting many of the voters actually have there votes in before the last few games of the season. Which is why someone like Benn got 0 1st,2nd and 3rd votes.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Where would the Oilers be without McDavid? At the bottom of the basement.

Where are the Oilers with McDavid? At the bottom of the basement.

Not MVP worthy. Case closed. Mack or Hall for Hart

Without McDavid and his 103 points? They would be literally one of the worst teams in history. HE HAS NO BEARING ON GOALTENDING
With him they are 10th from the bottom.

Do MacK or Hall win it if there team does not make the playoffs?

 

[Arrhizal]

The goal is to make the playoffs.. The MVP is the most important player on a team that made it. That's his value. It's not rocket science. It's not saying that this is the best player in the league, just the most important to a teams playoff chances. Just because 4% of the winners did not get into the playoffs it doesn't mean that there's some serious precedent and no unwritten rule.

I really don't get why some people need mcdavid to get everything.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Oh wow a team with a gameplan around one player, not like McDavid has not had this done his whole career and still produced. The freaking Ducks just circled around in there own zone for a minute into OT refusing to leave there zone until McDavid left the ice.

And just like McDavid he struggled to produce consistently with this sort of attention and that was 7 games vs. a 3 game stretch (amazing sample size). Again, do you just say things and not even know what you're saying? Do you know how many points McDavid had against the Ducks? I watched every game, he was minimized. Draisatl was our best player that series. MacK has a chance to rebound and his biggest games are ahead of him, let's see how he reacts before moving him out of the top spot.