Hart Trophy Talk: MacKinnon, Malkin, Kucherov the Early Favorites, Scoring at Highest Rates By Far.

[Bear of Bad News]

You're not gonna get a lot of responses. There's no reason why he shouldn't be, people are just ignorant.

You could bolster his argument for those reading the thread, instead of making a blanket insult against other people who just happen to be paying attention to things different from what you're paying attention to.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

McDavid hasn't played a relevant game since the new year

Interesting mental gymnastics to justify against the best player in the world; destroying all doubt he's far and away the best player in the world.

Do they award trophies for most relevant regular season games played??


Is this a criteria for hall of fame entry you've concoted?

 

[6ix]

MacKinnon and Kucherov choked, this is Hall all day.

 

[Tripod]

I didn't say Giroux is the Hart favourite. I'm saying "doesn't sniff it" is overboard when he's had an incredible season. He drives the Flyers.

I don't think people realize just how much. But let's look.

Couturier was a 3rd line C according to most on HF before being put with Giroux.

Konecny is top 5 in ES points since being put on the top line with Giroux.

Ghost is a top PP Dman....and the PP runs thru Giroux.

And like I said before, last 25 games has he only been held off the scoresheet 3 times all while amassing 35 points.

 

[Underdogoil]

Just by looking at the stat sheet and importance to team I think nominees should be McDavid, Kopitar and Hall. Every other favorite isn't as important to their respective teams and it is a shame that people forget that the heart is most valuable to team and not most valuable to league that's another award.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Eric Staal, Kopitar, and Hall would be my 3.

 

[Mcwinner]

In my opinion, there are normally 3 scenarios that take you out of contention for the Hart.

1. Your team doesn’t make the playoffs. This would obviously take out McDavid. Possibly Mackinnon and Hall.

2. You miss a considerable amount of time due to injury. This takes out Marchand.

3. You are playing on a team with other players that are having near mvp consideration seasons. Kopitar has Doughty. Kucherov has Stamkos and Hedman. Malkin has Kessel and Crosby.

If I was a betting man I’d say it’s Mackinnon for the win as long as the Avs make the playoffs. I think Hall has cooled off too much to win. If the Avs fail to make the playoffs I really don’t have a clue. Mcdavid could have a shot if 1st place votes are spread all over the map and 2nd place votes come into play.

 

[duul]

Everyone who plays in the NHL knows who the best AND most valuable player is. McDavid will run away with the Lindsay for the second year in a row. What is the obsession with playoffs for a Hart trophy? McDavid is dominating the entire league, moreso than MacKinnon. He is putting up a higher team point % than MacK too. There is no metric by which MacKinnon is somehow more valuable than McDavid. What the writers are arguing is that a 'valuable' player needs to be on a fringe playoff team.

McDavid has a bigger impact on how the Oilers play than Mack does with the Avs. I dont see how a single fan can argue against this?

I just loved the pundits on TV talking about how 'maybe if McDavid came deeper into his own zone.' 'Maybe if McDavid was on the right end of the ice'.

The guy has an insanely high +/- on an atrocious team. What more is he supposed to do? He could score 180 points and the Oilers still wouldn't make the playoffs. He is dominant in every advanced stat, leading the league in points, and is nearly 20 EVP ahead of anyone else (the largest % gap since ... Gretzky). He is also about to put up the most even-strength points of any player in how many years? 20+?

The fact he is leading the entire league in points while being part of the LAST place PP is insanity. He has 2x more PPP than anyone else on the Oilers. Show me another player who means more to their team. MacKinnon plays with a 80 point winger.

Avalanche is #1 in the NHL for powerplay time. Edmonton is 30th.

I mean we can go on and on all damn day. Almost every single statistic shows McDavid means far more to his team. Do you give the Hart to Kucherov when he plays on a line with one of the best goal scorers, best defenceman, and one of the best goalies in the NHL? He can go down to injury and Tampa will still be one of the top teams. This applies to Pittsburgh as well.

It's insane how the PLAYERS will unanimously agree that McDavid is on another level compared to everyone else and will all vote him in as the league's best player, yet the WRITERS will see this and think "He should've scored 200 points if he wanted the Hart", and then award it to a guy with three teammates in the top 20 players in the whole league, whose team wouldn't miss much of a beat without him for an extended period of time.

 

[Helistin]

Playoffs or not the Hart should go to McDavid. Edmonton would get beaten by a team of drunks conscripted from bars without him.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Interesting mental gymnastics to justify against the best player in the world; destroying all doubt he's far and away the best player in the world.

Do they award trophies for most relevant regular season games played??


Is this a criteria for hall of fame entry you've concoted?

You are very defensive. Nowhere did I say he wasn't the best player in the league, he is.

That does not make him most valuable. The Lindsey exists for this reason, you can't win MVP on a terrible team unless your season far exceeds everyone else and there's a weak pool.

You cannot possibly try to convince us that a goal he scores in a meaningless game is the same as Taylor Hall getting one in his teams must win... you just can't

 

[Emerz]

Marchand now has the highest PPG in the NHL at 1.35, 84 points in 61 games, 5 or 6 OT winners, and a pretty absurd +33.

1.58 PPG since January first and has now lead the Bruins to first place in the east.

When you combine all that with the fact that he is probably the best defensive winger in the game and is dominant on the PK I don't see how he is isn't top 3...

 

[The Panther]

Hell,even Gretzky had teammates that were helping instead of being stapled to Lucic.

Actually he didn't. In 1979-80, Gretzky won the Hart as a first-year player on an expansion team, where the next-best players were journeymen Blair McDonald and Stan Weir.

But I'll hazard a guess that even with 137 points and the best PPG as a rookie, Gretzky wouldn't have won that Hart if the Oilers hadn't just snuck into the playoffs as the lowest seed.

(Stan Fischler actually wrote, in 1981, that the only reason Gretzky scored so many points is because his teammates were so bad.)

 

[Emperoreddy]

Playoffs or not the Hart should go to McDavid. Edmonton would get beaten by a team of drunks conscripted from bars without him.

They already are that bad with McDavid.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Everyone who plays in the NHL knows who the best AND most valuable player is. McDavid will run away with the Lindsay for the second year in a row. What is the obsession with playoffs for a Hart trophy? McDavid is dominating the entire league, moreso than MacKinnon. He is putting up a higher team point % than MacK too. There is no metric by which MacKinnon is somehow more valuable than McDavid. What the writers are arguing is that a 'valuable' player needs to be on a fringe playoff team.

McDavid has a bigger impact on how the Oilers play than Mack does with the Avs. I dont see how a single fan can argue against this?

I just loved the pundits on TV talking about how 'maybe if McDavid came deeper into his own zone.' 'Maybe if McDavid was on the right end of the ice'.

The guy has an insanely high +/- on an atrocious team. What more is he supposed to do? He could score 180 points and the Oilers still wouldn't make the playoffs. He is dominant in every advanced stat, leading the league in points, and is nearly 20 EVP ahead of anyone else (the largest % gap since ... Gretzky). He is also about to put up the most even-strength points of any player in how many years? 20+?

The fact he is leading the entire league in points while being part of the LAST place PP is insanity. He has 2x more PPP than anyone else on the Oilers. Show me another player who means more to their team. MacKinnon plays with a 80 point winger.

Avalanche is #1 in the NHL for powerplay time. Edmonton is 30th.

I mean we can go on and on all damn day. Almost every single statistic shows McDavid means far more to his team. Do you give the Hart to Kucherov when he plays on a line with one of the best goal scorers, best defenceman, and one of the best goalies in the NHL? He can go down to injury and Tampa will still be one of the top teams. This applies to Pittsburgh as well.

It's insane how the PLAYERS will unanimously agree that McDavid is on another level compared to everyone else and will all vote him in as the league's best player, yet the WRITERS will see this and think "He should've scored 200 points if he wanted the Hart", and then award it to a guy with three teammates in the top 20 players in the whole league, whose team wouldn't miss much of a beat without him for an extended period of time.

So you have polled the players and already know he won the Lindsay?

In my opinion, there are normally 3 scenarios that take you out of contention for the Hart.

1. Your team doesn’t make the playoffs. This would obviously take out McDavid. Possibly Mackinnon and Hall.

2. You miss a considerable amount of time due to injury. This takes out Marchand.

3. You are playing on a team with other players that are having near mvp consideration seasons. Kopitar has Doughty. Kucherov has Stamkos and Hedman. Malkin has Kessel and Crosby.

If I was a betting man I’d say it’s Mackinnon for the win as long as the Avs make the playoffs. I think Hall has cooled off too much to win. If the Avs fail to make the playoffs I really don’t have a clue. Mcdavid could have a shot if 1st place votes are spread all over the map and 2nd place votes come into play.

For the record Hall is now on a 6 game scoring streak, and moved into a tie for 7th in points, tie behind Kopitar.

 

[Bramskii]

For the record Hall is now on a 6 game scoring streak, and moved into a tie for 7th in points, tie behind Kopitar.

10 points in his last 6 games = cooled off. Good to know.

 

[Deedog99]

Don't see how a non playoff team can have the MVP? What happens if you take him off your team? They still miss the playoffs.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

MacKinnon and Kucherov choked, this is Hall all day.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Kucherov's "choke" is 33 points in the last 24 games. Halls hot streak of late is basically the pace Kucherov has kept for the season.

 

[Panthaz89]

You are very defensive. Nowhere did I say he wasn't the best player in the league, he is.

That does not make him most valuable. The Lindsey exists for this reason, you can't win MVP on a terrible team unless your season far exceeds everyone else and there's a weak pool.

You cannot possibly try to convince us that a goal he scores in a meaningless game is the same as Taylor Hall getting one in his teams must win... you just can't

He's the best and most valuable by a longshot....you just don't see a guy lead the league in points on a losing team often because its pretty implausible considering the leading scorer is on a winning team almost every year. Its not the NFL where a QB can win a game by himself you put him on any winning team and he suddenly is far ahead of any other player which honestly doesn't make any sense. None of his goals and assists are meaningless that's just plain idiotic....tell the other team that plays the Oilers if those goals count against their chances to make the playoffs too. He has 30+ points on any of his season and has a +22 rating despite playing on a team that's -27 on the season. The problem with the playoff argument is if you switch said player with McDavid he wins the MVP vote by a mile at this point it becomes an exception when a player is dominating that hard...

 

[Perfect_Drug]

You cannot possibly try to convince us that a goal he scores in a meaningless game is the same as Taylor Hall getting one in his teams must win... you just can't

So do they track 'meaningful regular season goals'?

Just want to know what award is handed out to the meaningful ones and the non-meaningful ones.

Which player scored the most meaningful goals last year and who scored the most meaningless ones?


Do they differentiate meaningful reg. Season goals and non-meaningful ones for HHOF voting? Just curious. It's the first time I've heard of this stat.

 

[gretskidoo]

Why are people pretending the Hart is actually about "most valuable to your team"? Is it because they don't want McDavid to win?

 

[daver]

because coaches deploy their players differently, and different teams have different personnel. more ice time most certainly leads to more points. it may not be a linear relationship but it certainly is related.

an elite player on a team with no depth will naturally get more ice than one with more depth and less ice. butbthe coach may want to spread the ice around to keep his players fresh. coaches dont just give more ice because they aren't trying to get as many points out of their players as possible they're trying to win games.

It's already been highlighted that McDavid's PPG is a lot better in games where he has less than 19 minutes in TOI. And as you point out, a player with more TOI is less fresh so it is not really optimal to give more time.

That being said, IMO, production is production, regardless of TOI and team depth.

 

[Iceman]

You get a Hart Trophy, you get a Hart Trophy and you get a Hart Trophy.

Anyone not winning the Hart Trophy this year?

 

[Jtown]

Why are people pretending the Hart is actually about "most valuable to your team"? Is it because they don't want McDavid to win?

Look at the 12-13 year. Compare stamkos, eric staal, and toews year. Then look at heart voting. Playoffs matter

 

[Ned Bouhalassa]

 

[Sam Spade]

Don't see how a non playoff team can have the MVP? What happens if you take him off your team? They still miss the playoffs.

Yeah they drop down 3/4 spots to third worst instead of seventh worst?

He has put up insane numbers and the best player for the second half of this season (Kucherov first half) without a doubt, but there is no way he is the leagues MVP. How can anyone think he is more valuable than Hall or Kopitar or MacKinnon, who have carried their teams to wins game in and game out for the entire season?

I like McDavid a lot but the game is more than numbers, and it's not like he is destroying the competition.