Hanifin Or Marner?

[pspot]

Kinda funny that you criticize people for basing decisions off draft rankings, and then you make yours off of nationality and position Id say knowing someones position in a dozen draft rankings done by different professional organizations is more informative than just writing someone off because of their passport and the position they play but nothing else.

As for dmen, youre just listing off names. Are Percy, Finn, Gardiner, better than Kadri, Holland, Verhaeghe, Gauthier, etc? Does Rielly have more upside than Nylander?

I think we need big help at both positions. If Percy is our second best longterm dman option, thats a big weakness IMO. Rielly is the only dman in our system that we can comfortably project as a top 3 dman. And even he we cant comfortably project as an elite #1.

I just hope we make the right choice and land a franchise player, dont really care if its a D or a C. All these guys have great skillsets, Id probably largely base my decision on which guy is the hardest worker, with the best hockey IQ, and best attitude. With the gap in raw skillset so close, i think those other factors could be huge in regards to which hits their full potential.

was an honest question not bashing.

do a lot of people watch NCAA hockey?

 

[tooncesmeow]

for the people that are that high on Hanifin, have you seen him play? or just going off of rankings?

honestly just not crazy about the idea of a US Dmen and with it literally being the leafs only position of strength, Rielly, Percy, Finn, Gardiner, i really want them to take a forward and with one like Strome or Marner on the board those are special players. Any time i've watched Marner of been impressed.

I don't see how you wouldn't want Hanifin on this team. That size, that defensive acumen, that passing, those instincts, imagine having a pairing of him adn Rielly.

Seriously think about it, imagine the Leafs getting posession of the puck in their own zone, Rielly or Hanifin have it, you got Phil Kessel on the wing with 2 guys that can hit him tape to tape from the Leaf's net. Imagine anytime the Leafs got a turnover they'd have a chance to hit Kessel on the breakout and have a breakway or a scoring chance generated, how do you not salivate at that? You know how scary it would be for teams to ahve 2 guys that can lob passes to a guy with speed to burn and one of the deadliest shots in the NHL?

 

[Drew75]

This is where I'm conflicted. I'm not sure I know enough about Hanafin to say ...

IF - and a big IF, the Leafs brass (meaning Hunter) feels that Hanafin will be a top pairing D AT LEAST as good as Reilly, and that his skill set is a step above Marner, then you have to go BPA and take Hanafin.

However - IF they feel that Hanafin's skill set is equal to Marner, I think you go Marner (assuming Strome's off the board) based on the fact that:

• D take a lot longer to develop and make an impact
• D as prospects are less reliable at 18 years old to project
• It's more common to be able to grab a top 4 / top pairing D later in the first round / second round than it will be to grab a top line player (Keith, Subban, Karlsson, etc)

If they take Hanafin, I'm OK - but they had better be sure!

 

[thewave]

Thing about Marner is.. Who are his linemates? I think that plays a part in his tally.

 

[613Leafer]

was an honest question not bashing.

do a lot of people watch NCAA hockey?

No, but that works both ways. You cant vehemently argue for OR against a prospect that you havent seen much of.

Most of us have only seen Hanifin, Marner, Strome, Barzal, etc for ~3-5 games each, which isnt enough to really have an absolutely solid opinion on all of them. Which is where stats, scouting reports, draft rankings, etc come in to imperfectly fill the gaps.

I dont think Hanifin is definitely better than Marner because I havent seen these guys enough to confidently have that type of opinion. But similarly if you havent seen them either, it doesnt make sense to instantly write Hanifin off.

I do think there's an inherent bias where many fans WANT a forward/C over a dman too. and default to wanting the C unless there's an absolutely huge gap between two prospects.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

was an honest question not bashing.

do a lot of people watch NCAA hockey?

I watch more NCAA hockey than I do CHL hockey. That's both live and televised.

I much prefer it.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Unless they happen to be amazing...

I'm not saying bust, but it would still be amusing (in a negative way) if we were still missing that #1 centre.

 

[thewave]

Ultimately I think we all know that going any of Stro Han Mar, we get a good player that is really quite comparable.

 

[pspot]

THere was an interview with Scotty Bowman a few weeks ago. he was talking about how the expanded offensive zone has changed the game

Said dmen are now the most important position

basically the extra space has cause forwards to collapse in the dzone rather then attack the point. getting the puck on net is so hard now that scoring is down and because the forwards are dropped back breaking out of the zone is on the dmen.

before forwards would try and push out past the dmen as soon as there was a turnover but now they don't/can't do that

 

[member 147413]

Hanifin

 

[thelittleredbaron]

O'reilly ,Hanifin, unreal.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Thing about Marner is.. Who are his linemates? I think that plays a part in his tally.

Marner plays with Dvorak and sometimes Domi, however he's put up better numbers without Domi than with Domi.

If you look at Marner's highlights you'll see that he's the driving force on that line. After he was injured in the playoffs London completely folded.

 

[thewave]

Marner plays with Dvorak and sometimes Domi, however he's put up better numbers without Domi than with Domi.

If you look at Marner's highlights you'll see that he's the driving force on that line. After he was injured in the playoffs London completely folded.

Sounds good to me. I trust Hunter and Shanahan to do the right thing. If that Marner that's fine.

 

[RoadWarrior]

THere was an interview with Scotty Bowman a few weeks ago. he was talking about how the expanded offensive zone has changed the game

Said dmen are now the most important position

basically the extra space has cause


forwards to collapse in the dzone rather then attack the point. getting the puck on net is so hard now that scoring is down and because the forwards are dropped back
breaking out of the zone is on the
dmen.

before forwards would try and push out past the dmen as soon as there was a turnover but now they don't/can't do that

So basically the d-men simply have more ice to cover than before. Hence the importance of mobility on the back end.

It comes down to this. Should the leafs draft a Jay Bo type player (Hanifin) or a Joe Sakic type
player(marner)?

In my opinion we should go with Marner because he'll have a bigger impact and we already have Morgan Rielly.

 

[thewave]

So basically the d-men simply have more ice to cover than before. Hence the importance of mobility on the back end.

It comes down to this. Should the leafs draft a Jay Bo type player (Hanifin) or a Joe Sakic type
player(marner)?

In my opinion we should go with Marner because he'll have a bigger impact and we already have Morgan Rielly.

I think that going with a D although important is not as important in the top 5 necessarily. A lot of top D come from the 20-45 range because they are slow to develop. If you have a keen eye you can snag good defensive D there.

 

[egd27]

I think I like the idea of having a couple of high end defencemen that can each log 25 minutes a night in a few years.

 

[bobermay]

This is where I'm conflicted. I'm not sure I know enough about Hanafin to say ...

IF - and a big IF, the Leafs brass (meaning Hunter) feels that Hanafin will be a top pairing D AT LEAST as good as Reilly, and that his skill set is a step above Marner, then you have to go BPA and take Hanafin.

However - IF they feel that Hanafin's skill set is equal to Marner, I think you go Marner (assuming Strome's off the board) based on the fact that:

• D take a lot longer to develop and make an impact
• D as prospects are less reliable at 18 years old to project
• It's more common to be able to grab a top 4 / top pairing D later in the first round / second round than it will be to grab a top line player (Keith, Subban, Karlsson, etc)

If they take Hanafin, I'm OK - but they had better be sure!

I agree with this.

Another angle that you can look at it is that Hunter is VERY familiar with Marner....

So here are the possible outcomes
Leafs Draft Marner - Hunter feels Marner is THAT special to be drafted at #4....
Leafs Draft Strome/Hanifan/etc - Hunter feels that said player is BETTER than Marner....

The only loophole is if Arizona chooses Marner...

 

[HockeyAndWings]

Kinda funny that you criticize people for basing decisions off draft rankings, and then you make yours off of nationality and position Id say knowing someones position in a dozen draft rankings done by different professional organizations is more informative than just writing someone off because of their passport and the position they play but nothing else.

As for dmen, youre just listing off names. Are Percy, Finn, Gardiner, better than Kadri, Holland, Verhaeghe, Gauthier, etc? Does Rielly have more upside than Nylander?

I think we need big help at both positions. If Percy is our second best longterm dman option, thats a big weakness IMO. Rielly is the only dman in our system that we can comfortably project as a top 3 dman. And even he we cant comfortably project as an elite #1.

I just hope we make the right choice and land a franchise player, dont really care if its a D or a C. All these guys have great skillsets, Id probably largely base my decision on which guy is the hardest worker, with the best hockey IQ, and best attitude. With the gap in raw skillset so close, i think those other factors could be huge in regards to which hits their full potential.

Leafs brass need to pick the BPA at 4, and in hindsight, we want to be able to confidently say that we got the best player out of: Hanifin, Strome, or Marner, and we land a franchise player, it will be a good day in Leafs nation.

Work ethic, hockey IQ, and attitude are huge factors that need to be considered when determining whether a player will hit their full potential.

 

[Toronto13]

The pressure is on Hunter to not f...k up the picks this year my gut feeling is he goes with who he knows best and that is Marner.

 

[tuckerdomi]

Marner 100%- Even if Strome is available they will take Marner- Hunter loves him and owns the Knights.

 

[Pi]

As much as I like Marner, I think the Leafs should take Hanifin. Our defense for much of the past decade has been atrocious. There are three or four stud forwards and 2 great D next year.

Leafs need help in every department. I would try to acquire NJs pick and draft Barzal.

Hanifin + Barzal + NSH pick is a great draft.

 

[mydnyte]

This is where I'm conflicted. I'm not sure I know enough about Hanafin to say ...

IF - and a big IF, the Leafs brass (meaning Hunter) feels that Hanafin will be a top pairing D AT LEAST as good as Reilly, and that his skill set is a step above Marner, then you have to go BPA and take Hanafin.

However - IF they feel that Hanafin's skill set is equal to Marner, I think you go Marner (assuming Strome's off the board) based on the fact that:

• D take a lot longer to develop and make an impact
• D as prospects are less reliable at 18 years old to project
• It's more common to be able to grab a top 4 / top pairing D later in the first round / second round than it will be to grab a top line player (Keith, Subban, Karlsson, etc)

If they take Hanafin, I'm OK - but they had better be sure!

if the Leafs take Hanifin, they think he is BETTER than Reilly, else, they take Marner/Strome which can be BPA AND Need

 

[carko32]

I really love what Marner brings: work ethic, energy, high skill, etc. but we do have a number of average-to-below-average-sized wingers in Brown, Nylander, and Johnson. I realize he can play C but again, we can`t make up our team entirely of smaller guys.

If Hanifin is available, we go with him. Marner reminds me a bit of guys like Huberdeau and Drouin who are highly-skilled but whose importance to their team isn`t that great. I`m sure if Tampa could have a do-over, they`d take Jones; likewise I`m sure if Florida could take one of the top-ranked d-men available (Larsson, Brodin, Hamilton) instead of Huberdeau, they likely would.

I agree with you. We should take Hanifin and hope for such scenario:

If we take Hanifin Marner will fall to #6.

And then try and grab 6th pick from NJ and draft Marner. If he's not available, draft Barzal.

Sounds good to me. I trust Hunter and Shanahan to do the right thing. If that Marner that's fine.

 

[carko32]

As much as I like Marner, I think the Leafs should take Hanifin. Our defense for much of the past decade has been atrocious. There are three or four stud forwards and 2 great D next year.

Leafs need help in every department. I would try to acquire NJs pick and draft Barzal.

Hanifin + Barzal + NSH pick is a great draft.

This.

Maybe we are lucky and Carolina doesn't take Marner(since they had some problems with Skinner), and we can actually draft Marner at 6th(if we can convince Lou to trade it for one of JVR/Kessel).

 

[mydnyte]

As much as I like Marner, I think the Leafs should take Hanifin. Our defense for much of the past decade has been atrocious. There are three or four stud forwards and 2 great D next year.

Leafs need help in every department. I would try to acquire NJs pick and draft Barzal.

Hanifin + Barzal + NSH pick is a great draft.

I want that 2nd top 10 pick too, but, the options would drive us insane

what's better

Hanifin - Barzal/Zacha
Strome/Marner - Provorov/Werenski

mix and match them dozens of ways... shame all the D are lefties, else, would make it easier.