Proposal: Hampus Lindholm for Brad Marchand, Adam Mcquaid & Charles McAvoy

[The Toews Era*]

3rd in goals for LW in 2015-16 (only Ovechkin & Benn did better), you sir are correct... And more goals AND more points - in less games - than the guy you have as your nickname, @ a cap hit that is 42% of Mr. Incredible (58 points for 10.5mill? Ouch)...

If only every players ranking forever and all time was based on solely 2015-2016 and no other years. Marchand was also a lot more rested than toews, continuously missing the playoffs to be fair.

 

[THall4]

Ok, Hamilton has better offensive numbers, is more physical, plays on a lesser team, and plays less minutes. So your argument that Lindholm is better is what? That you hate the Flames?

 

[Boumsalot]

why is that funny its true

 

[Absurdity]

I mean, if we want to talk about how realistic this trade is for both teams involved, it really isn't at all...

Boston:
- Currently in talks with Marchand for an extension in which Marchand is looking for $7M
- Sweeney has identified Marchand as a core player.
- When was the last time a prospect that was drafted 2 months prior was traded if at all?
- Why do the Bruins trade a #1 LW who is a core player and a highly touted prospect, within the Bruins organization, in McAvoy that has 1st-pairing potential for a young defenseman in Lindholm that has #1D potential? The Bruins would be better off waiting for McAvoy to develop and keep a #1LW they believe is a part of their core.

Anaheim:
- They have no reason to trade a young defenseman with #1D potential.
- As a cap team, the first point above for the Bruins makes this proposal a deal breaker for Anaheim if Marchand was even willing to re-sign with the Ducks.
- As good as McAvoy is or potentially can be, the Ducks don't need any more defensive prospects. Anaheim also wants to contend every year, and trading Lindholm only makes their defense weaker right now even if McAvoy can potentially become a 1st pairing defenseman in 2-3 years.
- McQuaid does nothing for the Ducks who are already set at defense.

 

[Sojourn]

Ok, Hamilton has better offensive numbers, is more physical, plays on a lesser team, and plays less minutes. So your argument that Lindholm is better is what? That you hate the Flames?

So, Hamilton is trusted less than Lindholm, on a less successful team, and you think that's an argument for Hamilton over Lindholm?

 

[ottawa]

No rational Oiler fan ever referred to Hall as the best left winger in the game, nor do I believe that many (if any) Oiler fans thought we would get an elite #1D (Subban, etc) for Hall. In fact, I think a lot of Oiler fans would have said they expected one of our forwards (non-McDavid) for a potential #1 defenseman, and that's what we got. Some of us even thought Hall was probably untouchable. He wasn't obviously. Most were expecting more for Hall, that's definitely true, but it doesn't make your argument any more correct. Hyperbole doesn't help you make your point.

And yes, we have been defending the Hall trade. It happened, we might as well look at the bright side of it. There's no point in staying angry about it, especially when our team is looking to have improved by making the trade and signing a replacement. We lost in value, but gained a good player that fills a need and signed a replacement for Hall. So sue us for thinking positively.

Larsson is closer to a #3 than #1

 

[Ducks in a row]

Maybe in another couple years but in no way on a team with a boatload of offensive weapons does Lindholm's numbers represent a #1 D man. Is Dougie Hamilton a stud #1 D man right now because Hamilton > Lindholm?

Hamilton > Lindholm

Hamilton is better offensively while Lindholm is better defensively. Overall Lindholm > Hamilton.

 

[JarvisFunk]

Maybe in another couple years but in no way on a team with a boatload of offensive weapons does Lindholm's numbers represent a #1 D man. Is Dougie Hamilton a stud #1 D man right now because Hamilton > Lindholm?

Gonna bust out an old hockey cliche that I don't get to use much, but it's definitely applicable in this situation.

Hamilton couldn't even hold Lindholm's jockstrap.

Flames defense continues to be mighty overrated.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Because Anaheim has nobody as good as Brodie or Gio has nothing to do with it. lol.

Flames defenseman ice time (40+ games)
TJ Brodie 25:15
Mark Giordano 24:47
Kris Russell 22:52
Dennis Wideman 20:36
Dougie Hamilton 19:46
Deryk Engelland 15:13

Sure you have Brodie and Giordano eating a lot of mins but Hamilton didn't even beat out Russell and Wideman for overall ice time hmm...

 

[Viqsi]

No rational Oiler fan ever referred to Hall as the best left winger in the game, nor do I believe that many (if any) Oiler fans thought we would get an elite #1D (Subban, etc) for Hall. In fact, I think a lot of Oiler fans would have said they expected one of our forwards (non-McDavid) for a potential #1 defenseman, and that's what we got. Some of us even thought Hall was probably untouchable. He wasn't obviously. Most were expecting more for Hall, that's definitely true, but it doesn't make your argument any more correct. Hyperbole doesn't help you make your point.

And yes, we have been defending the Hall trade. It happened, we might as well look at the bright side of it. There's no point in staying angry about it, especially when our team is looking to have improved by making the trade and signing a replacement. We lost in value, but gained a good player that fills a need and signed a replacement for Hall. So sue us for thinking positively.

That's fair and I agree that the Oilers are a better team for the trade, but there's a difference between "it's rough in a vacuum but we're better off for it" and "we've always been at war with Eastasia".

It doesn't help that Lindholm's been a favorite target of damn near everyone who wants a young #1D but doesn't want to acknowledge that he is one for fear that they'd have to pay #1D values - never mind that Anaheim has no real need or want to trade him to begin with.

 

[lindholmie]

Because Anaheim has nobody as good as Brodie or Gio has nothing to do with it. lol.

yet the ducks won the jennings with fowler/lindhom/vatanen lmao

 

[Vipers31]

Maybe in another couple years but in no way on a team with a boatload of offensive weapons does Lindholm's numbers represent a #1 D man. Is Dougie Hamilton a stud #1 D man right now because Hamilton > Lindholm?

Hamilton isn't even close to Lindholm, let alone better. Only in Calgary would few people come up with this idea.

 

[BruinLVGA]

If only every players ranking forever and all time was based on solely 2015-2016 and no other years. Marchand was also a lot more rested than toews, continuously missing the playoffs to be fair.

Ah, I get it now: 10.5m per till 22/23 is a thank you contract for past achievements. I applaud the generosity. Still, if 58 points for 10.5 per is the way the "era" will continue, I wouldn't be very happy if I were a Chicago fan...

 

[HanSolo]

why is that funny its true

But is it really relevant?

John Scott was more physical than Niedermayer ever was. Does that make him better at defense? Keep in mind that I specified better at defense so we don't have to circle back to the Hamilton put up better offensive numbers than Lindholm. Even though in my example, Niedermayer was clearly better at offense too.

The poster in question made these claims in favor of the claim that Lindholm is not as good as Hamilton

1.) Hamilton had better offensive numbers...okay but offense and defense are not the same thing. Better offensive production is certainly a plus in Hamilton's favor but you can't make a claim on that plus and ignore the more important part of a defenseman's game...namely defense. Which...Lindholm is better at.

2.) Hamilton is more physical than Lindholm. Anaheim's own Josh Manson is more physical than Lindholm. That doesn't make him a better player. The distinction between their respective physicality is completely and utterly irrelevant. Lindholm doesn't need to be physical. He's strong enough to protect the puck and the focus of his defensive game is positioning. Something he excels at.

3.) Hamilton plays fewer minutes than Lindholm on a worse team. Let's assume that the argument of Brodie and Gio being impediments for his minutes is valid. How does that explain getting fewer minutes than Russell and Wideman? The implication here is not a valid one because it presupposes that Lindholm gets more minutes purely because no one is better and Calgary has better defensemen, but that logic doesn't follow. Lindholm gets more minutes on a defense that allowed the fewest goals and fourth fewest shots against in the entire league. And it's not in spite of Lindholm that this happened. It's not like Lindholm was lucky to get the minutes he did with a unit that efficient. He was one of the most important parts of Anaheim's defense being as good as it was. And I know what the counterargument is; "bruhh we had Hiller letting in everything." But that doesn't check out either. Anaheim was 4th in shot suppression league wide and Calgary was 11th. That's still impressive on Calgary's end but the fact of the matter is Lindholm and Manson were the key pairing on an Anaheim team that was elite tier at suppressing shots in front of our capable goaltenders. When it comes to the DEFENSE part of being a defenseman, Lindholm is superior to Hamilton and there's no getting around it.

 

[The Toews Era*]

Ah, I get it now: 10.5m per till 22/23 is a thank you contract for past achievements. I applaud the generosity. Still, if 58 points for 10.5 per is the way the "era" will continue, I wouldn't be very happy if I were a Chicago fan...

Bruins spent 70M and missed the playoffs didnt they?

 

[Terry Yake]

hahahahahaha that is one awful proposal

 

[nmbr_24]

Is Lindholm signed? I thought he was a RFA?

Going by how good people are saying he is, he is going to be getting paid a lot of money.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

Hamilton isn't even close to Lindholm, let alone better. Only in Calgary would few people come up with this idea.

Only on HF would someone argue against all the evidence because one player might become better than another. Tell us how Theodore is better than Brodie too.

 

[dracom]

Only on HF would someone argue against all the evidence because one player might become better than another. Tell us how Theodore is better than Brodie too.

And all the important stats say Lindholm is better in every way. Plus, Dougie only has 15 more points than Lindholm, plus those are mostly assists. Lindholm had 10 goals last season and Dougie had 12, so they aren't that far apart offensively.

Love that you try and make a terrible argument with Theo and Brodie as if it's the same thing as Lindholm and Dougie. Lindholm is proven to be one of the best young defensmen with elite potential, right next to Ekblad; while Dougie looks like a good 2nd pair offensive defensemen.

But please, continue to tell everyone how your defensemen are so much better than ours. Remind me, where were the Flames ranked at the end of the season? How many goals against did the Flames let in compared to the Ducks?

 

[Vipers31]

Only on HF would someone argue against all the evidence because one player might become better than another.

All evidence? Point production is literally the only evidence. All the other evidence there is indicates a big advantage to Lindholm.

I'm not going to tell you how Theodore is better than Brodie, because that is clearly not the case. But virtually the entire world of hockey would be willing to tell you how Lindholm is (much) better than Hamilton.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

No rational Oiler fan ever referred to Hall as the best left winger in the game, nor do I believe that many (if any) Oiler fans thought we would get an elite #1D (Subban, etc) for Hall. In fact, I think a lot of Oiler fans would have said they expected one of our forwards (non-McDavid) for a potential #1 defenseman, and that's what we got. Some of us even thought Hall was probably untouchable. He wasn't obviously. Most were expecting more for Hall, that's definitely true, but it doesn't make your argument any more correct. Hyperbole doesn't help you make your point.

And yes, we have been defending the Hall trade. It happened, we might as well look at the bright side of it. There's no point in staying angry about it, especially when our team is looking to have improved by making the trade and signing a replacement. We lost in value, but gained a good player that fills a need and signed a replacement for Hall. So sue us for thinking positively.

I have seen Hall called the best left winger, and a top 5 winger in the league many times on the trade board. Any attempt by myself or others to say that he wasn't was constantly met with Oiler fans claiming we just hate the Oilers.

 

[Rorschach]

This is like Ryder, Halak and a 2nd.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Bruins spent 70M and missed the playoffs didnt they?

Everyone in the league spent 70M, it appears. Still doesn't change the fact that 58 points @ 10.5 is a joke.
And about missing the playoffs, don't be so smug: just a short 10 years ago, season ticket holders were giving away free tickets to Blackhawks games. They were that bad. Remember that? I do.
Not everyone feels that tanking multiple years in order to be gifted exceptional players is honorable (it's hockey's version of welfare). That doesn't seem to be the case with you, seeing that you have no shame getting into threads with the sole objective of taking potshots at other teams' players. Classy.

 

[The Toews Era*]

Everyone in the league spent 70M, it appears. Still doesn't change the fact that 58 points @ 10.5 is a joke.
And about missing the playoffs, don't be so smug: just a short 10 years ago, season ticket holders were giving away free tickets to Blackhawks games. They were that bad. Remember that? I do.
Not everyone feels that tanking multiple years in order to be gifted exceptional players is honorable (it's hockey's version of welfare). That doesn't seem to be the case with you, seeing that you have no shame getting into threads with the sole objective of taking potshots at other teams' players. Classy.

Sorry but the bruins fan view that marchand is a top 3 lw in the nhl is laughable and fair game to be discussed in a thread about marchand.

As for the honorable bit - lololol

 

[Nordic*]

Lindholm is underrated by other fans, overrated by Anaheim fans.

Just as it should be I guess.