Proposal: Hampus Lindholm for Brad Marchand, Adam Mcquaid & Charles McAvoy

[HanSolo]

I don't have a problem with Duck fans not wanting to do this deal and I don't think they should and I don't think the Ducks management would do it, but I do have a problem with posts like this that imply that the offer is terrible. That is a very good offer.

In a vacuum, where all factors but on paper value are ignored, that's a good PACKAGE. But given all other factors it's not one that makes sense for Anaheim who really has no reason to trade one of their most valuable assets and a guy slotted to be one of the cornerstones of this team now and in the future.

Trust me when I say we've heard much worse for Hampus but that doesn't make it any more appealing given our situation.

 

[WhatWhat]

As a neutral fan I think this is decent value but I just can't see a team giving up a clear cut 1D like Lindholm unless the downgrade at position is marginal

 

[Boud]

That's a really good offer value wise from a neutral fan.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

What? That's a great offer but I can understand why the Ducks don't do it. Marchand is criminally underrated.

On another note, how are the Ducks going to be able to sign Lindholm and Rackell? Aren't they already pushing their internal budget? They seem kind of screwed, no?

Yes they are screwed.
They have approximately $6,650,000 in cap space.
They still need to sign Lindholm and Rakell (and maybe one more forward). To sign both these players they will need to bridge them both to two year deals which will make Lindholm all that more expensive to sign long term in two years (probably beyond the Ducks ability to pay). Unless they trade Fowler for picks and make the trading partner take on Stoner as part of the deal (a negative value which will reduce the value coming back) they will need to trade either Lindholm or Rakell.
The reality is that they are probably not a cap team so they have even less money to sign Lindholm and Rakell.
Ducks fans seem to want to put their fingers in their ears and sign lalalalala when anyone talks about the money.
Their GM isn't a magician he can't make the owner spend more than they wish to, ha can't raise the cap and he can't force his RFAs to take less then they are worth.
I'm afraid that Ducks fans will not be happy with how their team develops over the next 4-6 weeks.

 

[IDuck]

Yes they are screwed.
They have approximately $6,650,000 in cap space.
They still need to sign Lindholm and Rakell (and maybe one more forward). To sign both these players they will need to bridge them both to two year deals which will make Lindholm all that more expensive to sign long term in two years (probably beyond the Ducks ability to pay). Unless they trade Fowler for picks and make the trading partner take on Stoner as part of the deal (a negative value which will reduce the value coming back) they will need to trade either Lindholm or Rakell.
The reality is that they are probably not a cap team so they have even less money to sign Lindholm and Rakell.
Ducks fans seem to want to put their fingers in their ears and sign lalalalala when anyone talks about the money.
Their GM isn't a magician he can't make the owner spend more than they wish to, ha can't raise the cap and he can't force his RFAs to take less then they are worth.
I'm afraid that Ducks fans will not be happy with how their team develops over the next 4-6 weeks.

ummmm ok?....I know some ducks fans think BM is a moron, but I dont question for a moment that this team will still be competitive in 4 years.....seems like you are implying a lot of worst case scenario's will happen and that BM is done for the summer/year...I strongly doubt lindholm's deal is a bridge deal and if needed we will shed salary.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Yes they are screwed.
They have approximately $6,650,000 in cap space.
They still need to sign Lindholm and Rakell (and maybe one more forward). To sign both these players they will need to bridge them both to two year deals which will make Lindholm all that more expensive to sign long term in two years (probably beyond the Ducks ability to pay). Unless they trade Fowler for picks and make the trading partner take on Stoner as part of the deal (a negative value which will reduce the value coming back) they will need to trade either Lindholm or Rakell.
The reality is that they are probably not a cap team so they have even less money to sign Lindholm and Rakell.
Ducks fans seem to want to put their fingers in their ears and sign lalalalala when anyone talks about the money.
Their GM isn't a magician he can't make the owner spend more than they wish to, ha can't raise the cap and he can't force his RFAs to take less then they are worth.
I'm afraid that Ducks fans will not be happy with how their team develops over the next 4-6 weeks.

Holy sky is falling post batman

 

[BruinLVGA]

Not complaining, you can say whatever you want about the hawks. Just dont simultaneously play the victim card when you went off topic. Also, check the polls thread about taylor hall being a top 3 lw. There are bruins fans in there specifically saying what i implied about marchand. Then you yourself followed up my post doubling down on it. So yes, that is the sentiment, and its laughable.

Also lol at making a lopsided trade with a bad trading partner somehow isnt charity or taking advantage of the system anD is what you "earned" but getting a high pick in the draft with ones own spot somehow isnt. Its all the same system, a system which Due to the cap has resulted in the gutting and regutting of the hawks team after they became a powerhouse. The hawks have charitably gifted the nhl with byfuglien, ladd, sharp, saad, teravainen etc etc and still keep winning cups and being a contender. Something the bruins and other teams couldnt do. The charity cuts both ways.

I was discussing the quality of Marchand as a player for the purpose of evaluating where a Lindholm / Marchand++ would be. Specifically, how he most definitely isn't a 2nd line winger. Perfectly on topic.
What is off topic is you chiming in with a totally out of left field comment, sarcastically talking about top 3 LWs & calling into this Panarin, of all things. What has got Panarin to do in a Anaheim / Boston thread??
About the top 3 LW thing... What you stated - that folks in this thread called Marchand a top 3 LW - we ascertained that's false (referring to some obscure, supposed past thread won't help either...). Clearly a pretext to justify your dissing as an answer to ridiculous claims. You would be better off admitting that you just wanted to take a few potshots at a Bruins player.

Trading a young, 30+ goals scorer for two firsts and a second, isn't charity. Nor it's "taking advantage of the system": it's a transaction between two entities that are equal and are under no obligation to commit, if they don't feel OK with it. Do you seriously think that Toronto was being charitable with us? As in "let's help them Bruins"? We took a chance with the picks and they paid off, but no one could know how good those picks were going to be when the trade happened.
NOT at all the same thing as tanking to the max and receiving multiple gifts. And you can talk as much as you want about who Chicago traded away (like the cap only exists for Chicago? Only Chicago had to trade away players because of the cap? Come on...), the fact remains that if Santa didn't drop in your lap Toews and Kane, the chances of you getting even one cup would probably be abysmal. Now that's taking advantage of the system. Perfectly legal, but no bragging matter.
I said what I had to say and am done with this & with you. Stay classy.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

ummmm ok?....I know some ducks fans think BM is a moron, but I dont question for a moment that this team will still be competitive in 4 years.....seems like you are implying a lot of worst case scenario's will happen and that BM is done for the summer/year...I strongly doubt lindholm's deal is a bridge deal and if needed we will shed salary.

Who do you think they can shed?

 

[Goose of Reason]

Who do you think they can shed?

Well, Fowler's name is in trade rumours and that's 4mil, Despres is at 3.75mil, and if you're talking a contract after a 2 year bridge deal then Stoner (3.25) and Bieksa's (4) contracts are off the books, which is 15 million. If the Ducks can't afford both Rakell and Lindholm within 15 million coming off 2 year bridge deals that's awesome because it means we have two elite or near elite players for the next 2 seasons. Also, that's literally just 4 players so your point is baseless.

Follow up question for you, why are all of your posts on this forum about how Duck fans don't know the financial situation of their own team? Especially when we constantly explain it to you.

 

[The Toews Era*]

I was discussing the quality of Marchand as a player for the purpose of evaluating where a Lindholm / Marchand++ would be. Specifically, how he most definitely isn't a 2nd line winger. Perfectly on topic.
What is off topic is you chiming in with a totally out of left field comment, sarcastically talking about top 3 LWs & calling into this Panarin, of all things. What has got Panarin to do in a Anaheim / Boston thread??
About the top 3 LW thing... What you stated - that folks in this thread called Marchand a top 3 LW - we ascertained that's false (referring to some obscure, supposed past thread won't help either...). Clearly a pretext to justify your dissing as an answer to ridiculous claims. You would be better off admitting that you just wanted to take a few potshots at a Bruins player.

Trading a young, 30+ goals scorer for two firsts and a second, isn't charity. Nor it's "taking advantage of the system": it's a transaction between two entities that are equal and are under no obligation to commit, if they don't feel OK with it. Do you seriously think that Toronto was being charitable with us? As in "let's help them Bruins"? We took a chance with the picks and they paid off, but no one could know how good those picks were going to be when the trade happened.
NOT at all the same thing as tanking to the max and receiving multiple gifts. And you can talk as much as you want about who Chicago traded away (like the cap only exists for Chicago? Only Chicago had to trade away players because of the cap? Come on...), the fact remains that if Santa didn't drop in your lap Toews and Kane, the chances of you getting even one cup would probably be abysmal. Now that's taking advantage of the system. Perfectly legal, but no bragging matter.
I said what I had to say and am done with this & with you. Stay classy.

Some past thread? Its literally an active thread in polls over last three days. And bruins fans stated marchand was better than panarin and top 3 lw in nhl. So my statement that bruins fans perceive marchands value is: correct, perfectly valid in a thread concerning marchands value, and laughable as it overemphasizes one year and the value of his aberration goal totals.

I agree the cap exists for every team, and so does the draft system. Taking advantage of a buffoon gm for high draft picks is somehow more "noble" than having a high draft pick yourself = sourest of sour grapes. The cap, trading, draft system exists for all teams and only one is the best of this era. Seguin fell into your lap just as much as toews and kane did but you wasted the charity.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Well, Fowler's name is in trade rumours and that's 4mil, Despres is at 3.75mil, and if you're talking a contract after a 2 year bridge deal then Stoner (3.25) and Bieksa's (4) contracts are off the books, which is 15 million. If the Ducks can't afford both Rakell and Lindholm within 15 million coming off 2 year bridge deals that's awesome because it means we have two elite or near elite players for the next 2 seasons. Also, that's literally just 4 players so your point is baseless.

Follow up question for you, why are all of your posts on this forum about how Duck fans don't know the financial situation of their own team? Especially when we constantly explain it to you.

Nobody has yet explained how the math works where Lindholm and Rakell are signed to either bridge or long term deals and Fowler is traded and gets back what is his perceived value but the Ducks don't take on more salary.
I think everyone agrees that Lindholm is better than Vatanen and Vatanen just signed for almost $5,000,000/year for four years. So a long term deal for Lindholm will cost $5,500,000 - $6,000,000 or more which leaves $600,000 - $1,100,000 for Rakell.
Despres was damaged last year and hasn't shown he has recovered so I don't see anyone trading for him it is too risky until he has shown that he has recovered.
Ducks fans need to choose their priorities, it is either trying to get Lindholm/Rakell signed to either bridge or long term (very unlikely) deals or getting "Value" for Fowler I don't believe you can manage both.
This is what I meant when I said that Ducks fans will be disappointed.
1+1 still has to add up to 2.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Nobody has yet explained how the math works where Lindholm and Rakell are signed to either bridge or long term deals and Fowler is traded and gets back what is his perceived value but the Ducks don't take on more salary.
I think everyone agrees that Lindholm is better than Vatanen and Vatanen just signed for almost $5,000,000/year for four years. So a long term deal for Lindholm will cost $5,500,000 - $6,000,000 or more which leaves $600,000 - $1,100,000 for Rakell.
Despres was damaged last year and hasn't shown he has recovered so I don't see anyone trading for him it is too risky until he has shown that he has recovered.
Ducks fans need to choose their priorities, it is either trying to get Lindholm/Rakell signed to either bridge or long term (very unlikely) deals or getting "Value" for Fowler I don't believe you can manage both.
This is what I meant when I said that Ducks fans will be disappointed.
1+1 still has to add up to 2.

It is possible to do both. We could shed salary some other way like trade Despres to a team that would take a chance on him for pick prospect I am sure someone would take a chance on him.

 

[ORRMAN]

Brutaly Awful value. Just cause Bruins sold low on a young stud Dman doesn't mean Ducks will to.

If you mean Dougie Hamilton: more dud than stud.

 

[ORRMAN]

Ok, Hamilton has better offensive numbers, is more physical, plays on a lesser team, and plays less minutes. So your argument that Lindholm is better is what? That you hate the Flames?

Hamilton is not now, and never will be, close to as good as Lindholm.

 

[xxreact9]

That's a really good offer value wise from a neutral fan.

No it isn't. It's actually a very very bad offer. Lindholm is a RFA controlled clear cut #1 defender.

Marchand only has ONE year left on his contract. The value just isn't even remotely close. If we're talking a Marchand who is signed to a long term cap friendly deal, the value becomes closer but it still just doesn'the cut it.

As it stands though, with 1 year of Marchand, the offer is utterly brutal.

 

[xxreact9]

Nobody has yet explained how the math works where Lindholm and Rakell are signed to either bridge or long term deals and Fowler is traded and gets back what is his perceived value but the Ducks don't take on more salary.
I think everyone agrees that Lindholm is better than Vatanen and Vatanen just signed for almost $5,000,000/year for four years. So a long term deal for Lindholm will cost $5,500,000 - $6,000,000 or more which leaves $600,000 - $1,100,000 for Rakell.
Despres was damaged last year and hasn't shown he has recovered so I don't see anyone trading for him it is too risky until he has shown that he has recovered.
Ducks fans need to choose their priorities, it is either trying to get Lindholm/Rakell signed to either bridge or long term (very unlikely) deals or getting "Value" for Fowler I don't believe you can manage both.
This is what I meant when I said that Ducks fans will be disappointed.
1+1 still has to add up to 2.

Ducks have a huge surplus of D. Stoner makes 3.25M and Despres makes 3.7. Both of these guys will be moved before anything drastic happens.

If it means trading a mid pick just for someone to take Stoner. It's better than the alternative and it'll surely happen first

 

[bigbadbruins1]

No it isn't. It's actually a very very bad offer. Lindholm is a RFA controlled clear cut #1 defender.

Marchand only has ONE year left on his contract. The value just isn't even remotely close. If we're talking a Marchand who is signed to a long term cap friendly deal, the value becomes closer but it still just doesn'the cut it.

As it stands though, with 1 year of Marchand, the offer is utterly brutal.

clear cut #1? hes been in the league for 3 years and yes he has been good... but he hasn't reached the 30 point plateau. Marchand had more goals that he had points last year. I agree one year on marchs deal is a bit of a low sell, but Mcavoy balances that out. If people say chara isn't a clear cut #1... well he has better stats than lindholm even on the decline.

 

[Sojourn]

clear cut #1? hes been in the league for 3 years and yes he has been good... but he hasn't reached the 30 point plateau. Marchand had more goals that he had points last year. I agree one year on marchs deal is a bit of a low sell, but Mcavoy balances that out. If people say chara isn't a clear cut #1... well he has better stats than lindholm even on the decline.

McAvoy doesn't balance that out. He helps, but the difference between Marchand for 1 year and Lindholm long-term is quite a bit bigger than an unproven prospect. Even a talented one.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

clear cut #1? hes been in the league for 3 years and yes he has been good... but he hasn't reached the 30 point plateau. Marchand had more goals that he had points last year. I agree one year on marchs deal is a bit of a low sell, but Mcavoy balances that out. If people say chara isn't a clear cut #1... well he has better stats than lindholm even on the decline.

Fail post, if you're going to stat line scout you should probably make sure to actually read the stats - Lindholm has two 30 point seasons under his belt.

 

[King Mapes]

Fail post, if you're going to stat line scout you should probably make sure to actually read the stats - Lindholm has two 30 point seasons under his belt.

Maybe he meant goals

 

[TheGreat]

ummmm ok?....I know some ducks fans think BM is a moron, but I dont question for a moment that this team will still be competitive in 4 years.....seems like you are implying a lot of worst case scenario's will happen and that BM is done for the summer/year...I strongly doubt lindholm's deal is a bridge deal and if needed we will shed salary.

yea i dont get all negative towards what ducks have done , its not like Lindholm's FA or Rakell , they have time

I think they will be fine , either find a team to take an bad(lack of a better word) contract for less then what ppl believe here , i don't think the price will be fowler or a top pospect or a buy-out could be option

 

[Ducks in a row]

clear cut #1? hes been in the league for 3 years and yes he has been good... but he hasn't reached the 30 point plateau. Marchand had more goals that he had points last year. I agree one year on marchs deal is a bit of a low sell, but Mcavoy balances that out. If people say chara isn't a clear cut #1... well he has better stats than lindholm even on the decline.

Twice Lindholm has reach 30 points he just fell short this past season. McAvoy doesn't balance anything out. Imagine Lindholm traded for Marchand and McAvoy then Marchand is gone after 1 year which he will be. We have McAvoy who isn't as good as Lindholm and might not ever be as good assuming he makes it in the NHL in addition we have enough good defenseman prospects. Just so terrible for the Ducks then add Mcquaid who we don't want makes it even worse. Getting sick and tired of other teams fans making bad proposals and then hearing people try to say it isn't that bad thinking we are idiots.

 

[anezthes]

Hampus Lindholm for Brad Marchand, Adam Mcquaid & Charles McAvoy!

Flame away!

No, thanks.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Vesey signed with NYR so the Leafs will hold onto JVR...no trade for Fowler.
Hopefully Anaheim's other possible trading partners don't decide to handle their deficiencies in house also and leave the Ducks holding the preverbial bag (Fowler).

 

[Coach Parker]

I'd rather try to get Theadore and Bieksa.

Yes, Bieksa. Give them a good prospect for Theadore (one of the 1sts like Debrusk) for Theadore and then take on Bieksa's bad contract so they can sign Lindholm.