LeBrun: Guentzel: Pens want prospects over picks - Carolina favorite

[Empoleon8771]

12. Pittsburgh Penguins: With 10 minutes to go on Saturday night, the Penguins led Calgary 3-1. Seventy minutes of hockey time later, they’d lost 4-3 to the Flames and 6-1 to Edmonton. With Sidney Crosby, it’s never over, but that’s going to be enough for management. GM Kyle Dubas has told teams he prefers two prospects for Jake Guentzel, rather than, say, a prospect and a first-rounder, which fits with his stated plan of getting younger, but NHL-ready talent. Retention and/or taking money alters the equation, but that’s the preference.

Big question: will Pittsburgh give anyone permission to talk extension with the talented winger? That could open the market, because teams who are not in position to win this year — but hope to be next year — may enter the fray. Current contenders include Vegas, Florida, Carolina with Edmonton and Vancouver as longer shots. Complete and total wild card: Nashville, simply because they are looking for offence and surging. But that could be my late-night, fried brain imagining things. The Penguins will honour Brian Rust’s no-trade and not ask him to consider waiving. Teams really like him. Reilly Smith is another to watch and there’s been interest in Alex Nedeljkovic. Aside from the biggest names, the Penguins will consider plenty.

Yeah I know that the Canucks media is trying to paint Vancouver as "seriously interested" in Guentzel, but I think it's super clear that they're nothing but a longshot like Friedman said here. The only thing pushing them to relevance in this discussion is the JR/Alvin factor.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

The funny thing about all of this Hoglander talk is that I don't even particularly view him as that attractive of a headliner piece for Guentzel in the first place. In my eyes, he just has like a Jason Zucker type of 2nd liner upside. I think numerous teams, namely Florida, Carolina and Nashville, have higher upside players to offer for Guentzel than Hoglander.

The Canucks just aren't a good trade partner for the Penguins, from pretty much any aspect. If JR/Alvin weren't their GMs, I bet people wouldn't even consider the Canucks as a serious contender for Guentzel. They don't have the prospects or picks that match up with other teams, plus the Penguins would have to take back a shitty contract with term to make a deal work. Just a completely unattractive option.

Completely agree with the later. I think you guys can extract better value elsewhere. Again just thank the Canucks for bumping up the price. I hope you guys get a massive return for him I just don't want it to be the Canucks.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Yeah I know that the Canucks media is trying to paint Vancouver as "seriously interested" in Guentzel, but I think it's super clear that they're nothing but a longshot like Friedman said here. The only thing pushing them to relevance in this discussion is the JR/Alvin factor.

Exactly this. Only took 25 pages.

 

[Jerry the great]

And almost double the pts ... if you're being complete about it.

ES scoring + TOI

Hoglander ($1.1MM) 704 minutes 19 goals playing all over the place, but most often with Lafferty
Guentzel ($6MM) 890 minutes 16 goals playing most often with Sidney Crosby

Anyone watching Vancouver games this year can see that this is a break out season for Hoglander. He's way stronger physically than his last stint in the league, wins the vast majority of his puck battles, makes the right decision with the puck and does it quickly. very disruptive on the forecheck and heavy on the walls. he's starting to look a lot like Garland with a MUCH better shot and finishing ability. Considering he's signed for $1.1MM next year there is almost no chance he gets moved. The NHL player coming back in a VAN/PITT deal for Guentzel (if one gets done) will almost certainly be Mikheyev.

 

[Gurglesons]

ES scoring + TOI

Hoglander ($1.1MM) 704 minutes 19 goals playing all over the place, but most often with Lafferty
Guentzel ($6MM) 890 minutes 16 goals playing most often with Sidney Crosby

Anyone watching Vancouver games this year can see that this is a break out season for Hoglander. He's way stronger physically than his last stint in the league, wins the vast majority of his puck battles, makes the right decision with the puck and does it quickly. very disruptive on the forecheck and heavy on the walls. he's starting to look a lot like Garland with a MUCH better shot and finishing ability. Considering he's signed for $1.1MM next year there is almost no chance he gets moved. The NHL player coming back in a VAN/PITT deal for Guentzel (if one gets done) will almost certainly be Mikheyev.

It's wild that Canucks fans are trying to convince themselves that Hoglander is better than Jake Guentzel.

 

[Jerry the great]

Esposito was considered a candidate to go #1 overall in 2007 early in the season, but he eventually slid down to 20th overall in the 2007 draft. He was traded the next season in the Hossa deal, so I still think he was considered a top prospect at the time. He ended up a bust but he was a highly regarded prospect when moved.

But overall, I don’t think that has much relevance. The return for Guentzel should be comparable to the Meier trade from a year ago, with a bit knocked off due to Meier’s age. The expectation should be something like Zetterlund, Mukhamadulin and a 1st in value.

Esposito slid because his draft year production fell of a cliff when he didn't have Radulov's coattails to ride on. it was as obvious as an earthquake.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

It's wild that Canucks fans are trying to convince themselves that Hoglander is better than Jake Guentzel.

Two-time 40 goal scorer, two-time Cup champ, .93 career regular season points-per-game, 1.0 in the playoffs. It's asinine.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

So where are we at here? Are we at least getting a 4th round pick from HF Posters for Jake lol...?

 

[UrbanImpact]

Yeah I know that the Canucks media is trying to paint Vancouver as "seriously interested" in Guentzel, but I think it's super clear that they're nothing but a longshot like Friedman said here. The only thing pushing them to relevance in this discussion is the JR/Alvin factor.

Local Medica and Canuck fans are actually pretty aligned in saying we dont have the assets that it will take to get Geuntzel since we arent willing to move Lekky, Willander and Hoglander.

Lebrun probably got used by Dubas to drive up the price on Vegas by saying Van is interested. Likely there isnt 6 interested teams on JG, probably maybe 1 o


At the very most the Canucks will offer for JG is Podkolzin, 1st 2025 and 3rd round pick. Pitt would have to retain on JG and or take Mikhayev as well.

Probably gets beat but lets see what Friday looks like, Pitt has to take best offer available.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I don't know why this thread has been so Vancouver-heavy.

Can we start talking about returns from Dallas, Carolina, Florida, Colorado, Nashville now? And circle back to Vegas?

If Lekkerimaki and Wilander are off the table, these teams easily beat anything Vancouver could put together.

 

[Jerry the great]

It's wild that Canucks fans are trying to convince themselves that Hoglander is better than Jake Guentzel.

Hoglander is breaking out and 6 years younger signed for 1/6th the price. it's amazing that people don't understand the value of that in a salary cap system. He's more valuable at his cost than Guentzel and it isn't even close.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Two-time 40 goal scorer, two-time Cup champ, .93 career regular season points-per-game, 1.0 in the playoffs. It's asinine.

Jake only produces because he plays with Sid!!!


Jake Guentzel has 16 goals, 24 assists and a plus-minus of +9 in 38 games without Sidney Crosby in his career.

More impressive is that Jake is a ppg player in the playoffs in his career

 

[innitfam]

I'd rather not move Hoglander. Not because he's better than Guentzel (he's not), but with his production and cap hit, he will be extremely valuable for next year. Pettersson's contract is done but most of the D will either need signing or replacing, same with a backup goalie as well as a big decision to be made on Joshua.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hoglander is breaking out and 6 years younger signed for 1/6th the price. it's amazing that people don't understand the value of that in a salary cap system. He's more valuable at his cost than Guentzel and it isn't even close.

It’s actually amazing that you think Hoglander is some incredible factor that Jim Rutherford wouldn’t give up for a proven player like Jake Guentzel.

 

[Zbynek]

Two-time 40 goal scorer, two-time Cup champ, .93 career regular season points-per-game, 1.0 in the playoffs. It's asinine.

Yea but does Jake know how to ride a unicycle? Checkmate Penguins fans.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

It's wild that Canucks fans are trying to convince themselves that Hoglander is better than Jake Guentzel.

I don't think anyone is saying Hoglander is the better player. But in a cap world, he without a doubt holds more value to the Canucks.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Can we just all agree that it does not work with the Canucks? Not sure why everyone is still beating on this corpse of a horse.

 

[domaug]

I'd rather not move Hoglander. Not because he's better than Guentzel (he's not), but with his production and cap hit, he will be extremely valuable for next year. Pettersson's contract is done but most of the D will either need signing or replacing, same with a backup goalie as well as a big decision to be made on Joshua.

that goes against the grain of other Vancouver fans in here tbh. still, I think the Pens *will* get a better offer from literally any other team that is said to be interested.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think anyone is saying Hoglander is the better player. But without a doubt he holds more value to the Canucks.

Jim Rutherford has never cared about better value when he can sniff a cup.

Especially when it involves a guy who used to play for him.

 

[Rowlet]

I don't know why this thread has been so Vancouver-heavy.

Can we start talking about returns from Dallas, Carolina, Florida, Colorado, Nashville now? And circle back to Vegas?

If Lekkerimaki and Wilander are off the table, these teams easily beat anything Vancouver could put together.

You're surprised that there's a lot of discussion by one of the biggest fanbases on HF? And You're surprised nobody is out here representing 5 of the smallest?

 

[Pens1566]

Well, at least Hoglander will finally break his career high of 27pts this season.

 

[thefutures]

It's wild that Canucks fans are trying to convince themselves that Hoglander is better than Jake Guentzel.

Just as wild as telling other teams about their prospects and who's good and who's not. Also pretending to know what they are going to do because you know one person in their management. Guentzel should get alot, but i don't see why so many got sensitive after Canucks fans stated the obvious with guys like lekk, willander and hoglander. I havnt seen one post stating the canucks will have the best offer.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I didn’t realize Pens fans had such fragile egos.

 

[SomeDude]

Well, at least Hoglander will finally break his career high of 27pts this season.

Not if they trade for Guentzel and he gets health bombed.

 

[thefutures]

Can we just all agree that it does not work with the Canucks? Not sure why everyone is still beating on this corpse of a horse.

I think ppl got sensitive when willander lekk and hoglander were stated as untouchable. That's all. Move onto the next team, dubas will get his value.