LeBrun: Guentzel: Pens want prospects over picks - Carolina favorite

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UrbanImpact

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It's wild that Canucks fans are trying to convince themselves that Hoglander is better than Jake Guentzel.


The goal is to build a team to win the cup, not to accumulate all the high end players.

1.1 mil Hoglander next year vs 9mil Guentzel?

Canucks probably would rather keep Hoglander and use that 8mil cap space on improving the Defence.

They already have 2 guys pacing for over 100 points, Boeser pacing for close to 40 goals, Q Hughes leading the league in Dman scoring, Hoglander top 10 on 5 on 5 goals, etc..... Geuntzelt would obviously be great addition however
 

Lemieuxs

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Nov 23, 2013
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I could see where JR's deal is better but Vegas is a place where Jake would want to go for tax reasons.
 

Gurglesons

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The goal is to build a team to win the cup, not to accumulate all the high end players.

1.1 mil Hoglander next year vs 9mil Guentzel?

Canucks probably would rather keep Hoglander and use that 8mil cap space on improving the Defence.

They already have 2 guys pacing for over 100 points, Boeser pacing for close to 40 goals, Q Hughes leading the league in Dman scoring, Hoglander top 10 on 5 on 5 goals, etc..... Geuntzelt would obviously be great addition however

If the goal is to win a cup the Canucks will not have another window like this year within the next ten years.

You go all in. You buy the player who scores like McDavid in the playoffs. And you pray you avoid Edmonton.
 

Ryder71

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Two-time 40 goal scorer, two-time Cup champ, .93 career regular season points-per-game, 1.0 in the playoffs. It's asinine.
Not to be nitpicky but he only won one cup, but yes your point is well taken.

Another point to bring up, VAN keeps saying about Jake being a rental and there's an inherit risk there. Well, there's also a big risk even with a blue chip prospect who's never iced up the skates in the NHL. Just sayin, there's risk on both sides. But at least Jake is a proven commodity at the NHL level. And a world beater in the playoffs.
 

Empoleon8771

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I don't know why Penguins fans are trying to convince Canucks fans to trade for Guentzel. Even if I think not trading Hoglander for Guentzel is silly, I don't view Hoglander as a particularly enticing enough asset for me to be trying to convince someone else to give him up. Vancouver is already low on the list in terms of attractiveness of their offers, and that's even with including Hoglander.

Idk, I'd rather be trying to convince Carolina to stop the "Canes way" and trade Nadeau and a 1st for a rental Guentzel. The best offer the Canucks can reasonably make doesn't even match what Carolina can offer with their 5th best prospect.
 

KrisLetAngry

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So I have read a lot of proposals from Canucks fans not giving enough as well as media removing any asset the Penguins would be interested in.

Hoglander value is his contract and I understand Vancouver wanting to keep it. I also worry on regression with the high shooting %. So I am glad we won't be trading for him as a center piece in the deal.


Other fans of teams would like to chime in?
Vegas is seeing as a huge possibility. Guentzel would get lots of space with the size of the Knights.
 

3074326

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The goal is to build a team to win the cup, not to accumulate all the high end players.

1.1 mil Hoglander next year vs 9mil Guentzel?

Canucks probably would rather keep Hoglander and use that 8mil cap space on improving the Defence.

They already have 2 guys pacing for over 100 points, Boeser pacing for close to 40 goals, Q Hughes leading the league in Dman scoring, Hoglander top 10 on 5 on 5 goals, etc..... Geuntzelt would obviously be great addition however

You should ask the Canucks these questions since they’re the ones interested in adding Jake.

Anyways, VAN 1st + Hoglander is pretty meh to me. If that’s what it is, that’s fine I guess, just have a hard time believing it would be the best offer. Jake is a proven commodity in the regular season and playoffs. Not many wingers with his resume.
 
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Ogelthorpe

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Ironic cause it's Pens fans that seem 100% sure of what JR will do, even though he's not the GM.
I can’t tell you 100% what he plans to do or who he wants…… But I can tell you with 100% certainty, that if he has a voice in the room, and he wants Guentzel……if the Penguins say Hoglander has to be in the deal, then JR will make sure Hoglander will be in the deal.
It is how he always has operated, and it has netted him multiple Cups with multiple organizations. He’s not changing now!
 

domaug

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Vegas makes sense if you want to send him west, otherwise I thought the hurricanes work best. But from vegas how about, edstrom+1st or other prospect
if Edstrom is the main piece, hard pass.

ffs I would rather keep Guentzel and take a chance with re-signing him at this rate.
 

SEALBound

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Vegas fans reading this thread:

Guentzel+Hallander
for
Brisson, Korczak, 1st, Ivan Morozov

Teams swap recent 2nd round picks from Europe who came from overseas, tried and didn't stick, and went back home. Perhaps a new year with a new team gives them a reason to come back over and try again?

Given how well former Pens players do with a new team not coached by Sullivan, thought it might be worth the shot?



Damn NHL network, such huge Penguins homers with unrealistic expectations!

That's a very realistic deal. I'd be happy with that.
 
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Empoleon8771

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Vegas fans reading this thread:

Guentzel+Hallander
for
Brisson, Korczak, 1st, Ivan Morozov

Teams swap recent 2nd round picks from Europe who came from overseas, tried and didn't stick, and went back home. Perhaps a new year with a new team gives them a reason to come back over and try again?

Given how well former Pens players do with a new team not coached by Sullivan, thought it might be worth the shot?


That's a very realistic deal. I'd be happy with that.

Vegas fans are adamant about not moving Korczak because he's expected to be replacing Martinez next year. I don't think asking for him is reasonable.

My expectation for a Vegas deal is Brisson and the 2024 1st as guaranteed pieces, with another B level piece added on. I'd be shooting for Cataford as that B level piece, but I could see it being anything like him, Sapovaliv, Dorofeyev or something similarly valuable.

My hope would be Brisson, Cataford and the 2024 1st for Guentzel at 50%. Brisson slides into Guentzel's old role as Crosby's scoring LWer and Cataford looks like a good 3rd round prospect on the upswing, similar to how Brzustewicz was trending upwards for the Canucks.
 

FerrisRox

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3. I NEVER, EVER claimed THAT particular proposal was a bad offer. Quote me saying so hot shot. In fact, that would be in line with what most Penguins fans are wanting as the return from Vancouver given the available options. It is Vancouver fans saying that it's too much because they are overvaluing Hoglander (in addition to reports that they don't want to give up anything of value).

I've deleted all kinds of stuff that I truly have no clue why you wrote to me. You sent paragraphs of stuff that has nothing to do with anything I've said, but I will respond to this particularly baffling response.

You don't seem to understand YOU responded to ME.

And in YOUR response, you referred to "Vancouver's garbage."

The only point I've ever made in this entire thread was that I thought it was bizarre that the OP made the price tag for the Canucks to acquire Guentzel significantly higher than the price tag for other teams.

He was called out on this by various posters, doubled down and said absurd things like Brisson was worth the same as Hoglander and then went back and edited his original post.

As I read through the thread, it became clear that he had an obvious agenda and made this thread when he was already ruffled about some other thread and some other comments from alleged Canucks fans so I guess his original post was his childish response to that, but then after he was repeatedly called out for his post, he went and edited it.

The only trade offer from the Canucks I have ever commented on, was Hoglander, Raty and a 1st round draft pick. Then YOU respond to ME and talk about "Vancouver's garbage."

Just a little tip for how this place works: if you click "reply" it's generally a good idea to respond to the post you're replying to. Otherwise, it's confusing for everyone and nobody can follow what you mean. For you to reply to my post - which wasn't even directed at you - and then tell me that Pittsburgh doesn't want Vancouver's garbage is one thing. But now, when I told you I thought that was an idiotic claim, for you once again to hit reply and go on a multi-paragraph rant that is largely not connected to what I've said at all again seems to indicate that you're not quite sure how this all works. Even stranger to go all caps about how you never ever made the claim that you quite clearly did is frankly more than a little odd. I have only ever mentioned one trade offer in here. You hit replay talking about Vancouver's offer being garbage, and then you hit replay again and said you never said.

Do me favour - don't reply to my posts anymore. You're not actually reading them and your replys aren't connected to what I'm saying. Stop wasting both of our time.
 

SEALBound

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I've deleted all kinds of stuff that I truly have no clue why you wrote to me. You sent paragraphs of stuff that has nothing to do with anything I've said, but I will respond to this particularly baffling response.

You don't seem to understand YOU responded to ME.

And in YOUR response, you referred to "Vancouver's garbage."

The only point I've ever made in this entire thread was that I thought it was bizarre that the OP made the price tag for the Canucks to acquire Guentzel significantly higher than the price tag for other teams.

He was called out on this by various posters, doubled down and said absurd things like Brisson was worth the same as Hoglander and then went back and edited his original post.

As I read through the thread, it became clear that he had an obvious agenda and made this thread when he was already ruffled about some other thread and some other comments from alleged Canucks fans so I guess his original post was his childish response to that, but then after he was repeatedly called out for his post, he went and edited it.

The only trade offer from the Canucks I have ever commented on, was Hoglander, Raty and a 1st round draft pick. Then YOU respond to ME and talk about "Vancouver's garbage."

Just a little tip for how this place works: if you click "reply" it's generally a good idea to respond to the post you're replying to. Otherwise, it's confusing for everyone and nobody can follow what you mean. For you to reply to my post - which wasn't even directed at you - and then tell me that Pittsburgh doesn't want Vancouver's garbage is one thing. But now, when I told you I thought that was an idiotic claim, for you once again to hit reply and go on a multi-paragraph rant that is largely not connected to what I've said at all again seems to indicate that you're not quite sure how this all works. Even stranger to go all caps about how you never ever made the claim that you quite clearly did is frankly more than a little odd. I have only ever mentioned one trade offer in here. You hit replay talking about Vancouver's offer being garbage, and then you hit replay again and said you never said.

Do me favour - don't reply to my posts anymore. You're not actually reading them and your replys aren't connected to what I'm saying. Stop wasting both of our time.
I have absolutely no idea what to make of this. We don't occupy the same reality. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

BjLW8H.gif
 
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Empoleon8771

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Purely from a value POV, this is a fine offer from the Canucks. I just don't think the Penguins would pick this over another offer due to having to take back Mikheyev's crap deal.

I also personally do not like Podkolzin as a prospect, but I don't want to throw him aside as a prospect based on that.

I mean is this really that great of a haul? I’d take the package Lindholm got over this

It's 3 1st round picks. Of course it's a great haul, way better than what Vancouver paid for Lindholm.
 
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thefutures

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I can’t tell you 100% what he plans to do or who he wants…… But I can tell you with 100% certainty, that if he has a voice in the room, and he wants Guentzel……if the Penguins say Hoglander has to be in the deal, then JR will make sure Hoglander will be in the deal.
It is how he always has operated, and it has netted him multiple Cups with multiple organizations. He’s not changing now!
Well that makes sense. Also, I don't have an issue with trading hoglander in a vacuum, his value is that he fits with pettersson and is paid 1m. If we trade him for a rental we are left with 1 top 6 winger at the start of the summer. I have doubts about resigning JG because of multiple players needing new contracts. That's the real hesitation. JG obviously worth Hog + but if you can't keep him you really have to make a hard choice. Not saying Pens should understand and take less, just saying it's not an easy choice for Vancouver even though Guentzel is a beast.
 

Peter Griffin

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Apparently you're getting butthurt (sic) because you have a mild case of the illiterate.

No one is upset that Jake Guentzel isn't being praised. These are the fantasy land boards, nothing said here is based in reality, so when you're trading a great winger, you're expecting a great return. Trust me, your praise isn't required, necessary, or remotely cared about by others, but if you're going to participate in the make-believe discussions, at least try to be realistic.
I’m not illiterate at all but you may be as I’ve agreed that a Guentzel trade should and would include Hoglander. I can also understand that Canucks fans may not want to include Hoglander for a rental.

I just find it humorous so many Pens fans are “selling” Guentzel’s accomplishments because they feel dissatisfied in the make believe offers from Canucks’ fans.
 
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