LeBrun: Guentzel: Pens want prospects over picks - Carolina favorite

[FerrisRox]

But it's not really. You guys blew the assets on Lindholm and there's a gap in available assets. You're missing those middle ground assets that other teams have that would be fair value. So then it's either pieces like Hoglander or your trash. Penguins fans, very (VERY) understandably, do not want Vancouvers trash for a player of Guentzels caliber.

Not hard.

I am not a Canucks fan, so I'm not "you guys" and I don't think the Canucks "blew" anything, they made an excellent trade to fill a serious need on their roster when they acquired Lindholm.

The fact that you are claiming an offer of Nils Hoglander, Aatu Raty and a 1st round draft pick is "Vancouvers trash" tells me everything I need to know about you and your knowledge of the game and the league.

Certainly enough evidence that I know I have no reason to continue any kind of hockey conversation with you, that's for sure.

 

[Gurglesons]

Just as wild as telling other teams about their prospects and who's good and who's not. Also pretending to know what they are going to do because you know one person in their management. Guentzel should get alot, but i don't see why so many got sensitive after Canucks fans stated the obvious with guys like lekk, willander and hoglander. I havnt seen one post stating the canucks will have the best offer.

If Jim Rutherford wants Jake Guentzel. He'll give up whatever it takes to get him.

It's kind of Jim Rutherford's thing.

I don't think Pittsburgh is going to get a massive haul for Guentzel, but this consistent idea that Jim Rutherford wouldn't go off the deep end to acquire Jake Guentzel is just completely opposite to everything he has ever done in the NHL.

 

[Maninthebox87]

I remember that 2007 draft and being stoked when Esposito fell to Pittsburgh I think Radulov helped pad his stats in juniors and once he left Espositos stock fell… I remember being like damn we gave up a lot for Hossa at the time but was ecstatic all the same. Glad it worked out for Pittsburgh in the long run.

 

[domaug]

I didn’t realize Pens fans had such fragile egos.

we're allowed to be critical of posts that suggest the Canucks should get a 40-goal scorer for table scraps.

 

[thefutures]

If Jim Rutherford wants Jake Guentzel. He'll give up whatever it takes to get him.

It's kind of Jim Rutherford's thing.

Have you predicted any move the Canucks have made since hiring JR? Genuinely curious

 

[Peter Griffin]

we're allowed to be critical of posts that suggest the Canucks should get a 40-goal scorer for table scraps.

Nobody is suggesting Pittsburgh should accept the offers though. Pens fans just can’t accept that many Canucks fans aren’t willing to give up Hoglander+ for a rental.

 

[Gurglesons]

Have you predicted any move the Canucks have made since hiring JR? Genuinely curious

Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight? Genuinely curious

 

[Empoleon8771]

Local Medica and Canuck fans are actually pretty aligned in saying we dont have the assets that it will take to get Geuntzel since we arent willing to move Lekky, Willander and Hoglander.

Lebrun probably got used by Dubas to drive up the price on Vegas by saying Van is interested. Likely there isnt 6 interested teams on JG, probably maybe 1 o

"My team doesn't want to pay a fair price for Guentzel, so that means that actually there is probably only 1 team interested in Guentzel"

Flawless logic there!

At the very most the Canucks will offer for JG is Podkolzin, 1st 2025 and 3rd round pick. Pitt would have to retain on JG and or take Mikhayev as well.

Probably gets beat but lets see what Friday looks like, Pitt has to take best offer available.

So let's break down this offer:

1. You have the Penguins taking back a terrible contract.
2. You have the Penguins retaining money on Guentzel
3. To compensate for both of those plus the value of Guentzel, they get back a struggling prospect, a 2025 1st and a 3rd. How enticing!

Why can't Canucks fans just stop posting trade proposals in here? You're not getting him. That's okay, someone else is going to get him. We get it, you love Hoglander and your prospects and don't actually want Guentzel.

 

[thefutures]

Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight? Genuinely curious

Lol

 

[Gurglesons]

It's going to be awesome when Jake Guentzel isn't traded.

 

[IcedCapp]

I didn’t realize Pens fans had such fragile egos.

This is legitimately hilarious coming from a fan base who pisses themselves and roll up into the fetal position if you just think the words "boston bruins"

When you have the mental toughness of 9 year old lettuce, maybe just stick to your lane when it comes to commenting on others.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Anyway, Dreger said earlier today that Vegas is viewed as the clear favorite to pull off Guentzel, which seems to make sense with everything we see. With Stone out for the year, they have the money to take on Guentzel's deal without saddling the Penguins with another shitty contract. They don't have any amazing headliner pieces, but they do have numerous good pieces that can make a good total package.

I'd prefer Florida and getting one of Samoskevich or Devine as the headliner, but I think Vegas can make a strong offer with something like Brisson, Cataford and a 2024 1st for Guentzel. With Vegas kinda struggling this year, I think their 1st has the chance at being closer to 20 than 30 as well.

 

[Peter Griffin]

This is legitimately hilarious coming from a fan base who pisses themselves and roll up into the fetal position if you just think the words "boston bruins"

When you have the mental toughness of 9 year old lettuce, maybe just stick to your lane when it comes to commenting on others.

I’m not getting butthurt online because other teams fans aren’t praising my player.

 

[andora]

Maybe it didn't make international news but some of you guys know that Rutherford is not the general manager right?

 

[sxvnert]

If all six were legit the deal would have been done already.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If all six were legit the deal would have been done already.

Literally the only good forward that has been traded so far has been Lindholm. No one is making any trades yet.

 

[Gurglesons]

Maybe it didn't make international news but some of you guys know that Rutherford is not the general manager right?

Must be wild to convince yourself this.

 

[IcedCapp]

I’m not getting butthurt online because other teams fans aren’t praising my player.

Apparently you're getting butthurt (sic) because you have a mild case of the illiterate.

No one is upset that Jake Guentzel isn't being praised. These are the fantasy land boards, nothing said here is based in reality, so when you're trading a great winger, you're expecting a great return. Trust me, your praise isn't required, necessary, or remotely cared about by others, but if you're going to participate in the make-believe discussions, at least try to be realistic.

 

[molon labe]

If Jim Rutherford wants Jake Guentzel. He'll give up whatever it takes to get him.

It's kind of Jim Rutherford's thing.

I don't think Pittsburgh is going to get a massive haul for Guentzel, but this consistent idea that Jim Rutherford wouldn't go off the deep end to acquire Jake Guentzel is just completely opposite to everything he has ever done in the NHL.

JR bid against himself over and over here. JR bidding against 5-7 other teams? Should be interesting.

That being said - I really do like some of the roster players / prospects being brought up from the other teams interested.

 

[Bobby9]

If they have a contract extension in place they will give up Lekk.

Our window is 3-5 years

 

[IcedCapp]

If all six were legit the deal would have been done already.

why? IF Dubas is going to move him, he wants to maximize the return. I didn't read through 26 pages of this nonsense, but it's possible they (the Penguins) let him (Guentzel) discuss extension with potential suitors. That could take time (but also raise the return). There's no reason for the Penguins to rush.

They aren't making the playoffs this year, but everything they do over the next 3 days is with an eye to compete in the next 2-3 years, so they have to get it just right.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Anyway, Dreger said earlier today that Vegas is viewed as the clear favorite to pull off Guentzel, which seems to make sense with everything we see. With Stone out for the year, they have the money to take on Guentzel's deal without saddling the Penguins with another shitty contract. They don't have any amazing headliner pieces, but they do have numerous good pieces that can make a good total package.

I'd prefer Florida and getting one of Samoskevich or Devine as the headliner, but I think Vegas can make a strong offer with something like Brisson, Cataford and a 2024 1st for Guentzel. With Vegas kinda struggling this year, I think their 1st has the chance at being closer to 20 than 30 as well.

Agree, and I doubt that Vegas will re-sign Martinez (and next year bring in Korczak instead) which gives them a little over $5M as well to play with in addition to the cap going up. But who knows.

 

[thefutures]

Vegas makes sense if you want to send him west, otherwise I thought the hurricanes work best. But from vegas how about, edstrom+1st or other prospect

 

[Empoleon8771]

Agree, and I doubt that Vegas will re-sign Martinez (and next year bring in Korczak instead) which gives them a little over $5M as well to play with in addition to the cap going up. But who knows.

If Vegas trades for Guentzel, I bet they re-sign him and let Marchessault walk. Just a hunch I have.

With Nevada having no state income taxes, I think you could reasonably get Guentzel for like $8 million a year, which is definitely workable going forward.

 

[SEALBound]

I am not a Canucks fan, so I'm not "you guys" and I don't think the Canucks "blew" anything, they made an excellent trade to fill a serious need on their roster when the acquired Lindholm.

The fact that you are claiming an offer of Nils Hoglander, Aatu Raty and a 1st round draft pick is "Vancouvers trash" tells me everything I need to know about you and your knowledge of the game and the league.

Certainly enough evidence that I know I have no reason to continue any kind of hockey conversation with you, that's for sure.

Woof. Let me get my crayons.

1. I don't have a directory of who everyone's "team" is. If you're here arguing value for Vancouver, I'm lumping you in as a Vancouver fan. So sue me.

2. The Lindholm trade was indeed a good trade for them but they still paid good assets for him. If your angst is that I said "blew", f***ing whatever man. Semantics. Replace it with "spent" if your mentality fragility needs it that bad". The point was, if Vancouver had Kuzmenko, Jurmo, Hunter Brzustewicz,
2024 1st round pick, and a conditional 2024 4th round pick (NJD) in addition to what they have now, they could likely may a very strong pitch for Guentzel. Something like Brzustewicz, Raty, 1st is something that we would have likely taken rather quickly. But as my post clearly stated, because those assets are now gone, Vancouver is left with top tier assets - Lekkerimaki, Wallander, and Hoglander or lower-tier B/C level prospects - Raty, Podkolzin, Bains, Dries, EP2, 3rds, 4ths, etc. There is a gap in that middle ground of assets where you likely can't get a Guentzel level player unless you give up one of the top tier assets. That's like the entire point Penguins fans are trying to make here with Vancouver fans who want to give up nothing of value.

3. I NEVER, EVER claimed THAT particular proposal was a bad offer. Quote me saying so hot shot. In fact, that would be in line with what most Penguins fans are wanting as the return from Vancouver given the available options. It is Vancouver fans saying that it's too much because they are overvaluing Hoglander (in addition to reports that they don't want to give up anything of value).

4. If you move past Lekkerimaki, Walliander, Hoglander, and their 1st which everyone says are assets they don't want to give up, then YES, you are looking at assets that are, more or less, trash with the exception being Raty as a decent B-level prospect that would be commonly traded in deals like his (as evidence by the fact that he was traded in a very similar deal just last year).

When you move past Raty it get's pretty bleak for assets that would entice the Penguins to trade Guentzel. Podkolzin, Bains, Dries, EP2, 2025/26 2nds, a 2024 3rd...these aren't great assets to be offering up to the Penguins when there are other teams that can beat it pretty easily.

This isn't hard man. Penguins fans are hardly being unreasonable when our long-term first-line LW who is a 40g impact player is available for trade.