LeBrun: Guentzel: Pens want prospects over picks - Carolina favorite

[Gurglesons]

Personally i try not make too many tiers when i look at players or it can get confusing. These three are all very good players that are impact top half of roster players

Okay. Jake Guentzel scores goals in the playoffs at the same rate as Connor McDavid over a longer sample of playoff games.

 

[andora]

Okay. Jake Guentzel scores goals in the playoffs at the same rate as Connor McDavid over a longer sample of playoff games.

Yes ok cool

 

[Bobby9]

Okay. Jake Guentzel scores goals in the playoffs at the same rate as Connor McDavid over a longer sample of playoff games.

Dont worry about him. He is one of the Canucks forum SP's.

 

[Darren McCord]

Esposito was a talented wildcard (like shane wright now) - christiansen but boom bust

From memory i dont recall esposito as a top prospect

"It has been 10 years since NHL central scouting ranked Esposito first among North American skaters heading into the 2007 draft"

He was seen as a top prospect that fell in the draft. He was ranked pretty high by scouts

 

[SEALBound]

What did James neal cost u guys? What did Phil Kessel?

Neal got Goligoski who was a young top 4 PMD that Dallas desperately needed.

Kessel got recent 1st round pick Kapanen, 2nd round pick Harrington, and a 1st. Of course there was some other crap added like the 2nd, 3rd, and Spaling but in essence, it was Kapanen, Harrington, 1st. Two young, high draftees, and a 1st. Seems reasonable.

Penguins ask for Guentzel is not that much further off.

 

[andora]

"It has been 10 years since NHL central scouting ranked Esposito first among North American skaters heading into the 2007 draft"

He was seen as a top prospect that fell in the draft. He was ranked pretty high by scouts

Sorry i meant at the time of the trade - i seem to recall some questions over character and work ethic etc.. not skill

 

[Ugene Magic]

?

You make it seem like Hoglander is too good to be a part of a transaction for a far better player. A one off season of putting up goals does not equate to being this massive piece.

He's proven he can be a part of the return but not the main part of the return.

He still is a 5'9" unproven middle six winger preying on the success of a top heavy team. He could just as easily revert back to a pumpkin.

 

[Darren McCord]

Sorry i meant at the time of the trade - i seem to recall some questions over character and work ethic etc.. not skill

He wasnt even a year removed from the draft. The image of him was not really changed and he was still considered a top prospect.

 

[Gurglesons]

He wasnt even a year removed from the draft. The image of him was not really changed and he was still considered a top prospect.

I don't think he was like a top 10 prospect in the league, but he was easily PIT's best prospect.

 

[andora]

You make it seem like Hoglander is too good to be a part of a transaction for a far better player. A one off season of putting up goals does not equate to being this massive piece.

He's proven he can be a part of the return but not the main part of the return.

He still is a 5'9" unproven middle six winger preying on the success of a top heavy team. He could just as easily revert back to a pumpkin.

I am not trying to make hoglander into anything, i started by asking a question about good young current nhl forwards being moved in rental deals

He wasnt even a year removed from the draft. The image of him was not really changed and he was still considered a top prospect.

Maybe for pittsburgh.. maybe i am just remembering it differently

I don't think he was like a top 10 prospect in the league, but he was easily PIT's best prospect.

How i remember

 

[Darren McCord]

I don't think he was like a top 10 prospect in the league, but he was easily PIT's best prospect.

Not but I mean he was definitely a blue chip and highly ranked. Better than guys like Raty or Pettersson 2.0 who have been tossed around.

 

[K Fleur]

I just read on one the first couple pages that somebody thinks Hoglander is too good of piece to give up for Guenztel.

Is there another Hoglander on the Canucks? Cause the only one I know of plays like 11 mins a game.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Esposito was considered a candidate to go #1 overall in 2007 early in the season, but he eventually slid down to 20th overall in the 2007 draft. He was traded the next season in the Hossa deal, so I still think he was considered a top prospect at the time. He ended up a bust but he was a highly regarded prospect when moved.

But overall, I don’t think that has much relevance. The return for Guentzel should be comparable to the Meier trade from a year ago, with a bit knocked off due to Meier’s age. The expectation should be something like Zetterlund, Mukhamadulin and a 1st in value.

 

[Ulf5]

Esposito was considered a candidate to go #1 overall in 2007 early in the season, but he eventually slid down to 20th overall in the 2007 draft. He was traded the next season in the Hossa deal, so I still think he was considered a top prospect at the time. He ended up a bust but he was a highly regarded prospect when moved.

But overall, I don’t think that has much relevance. The return for Guentzel should be comparable to the Meier trade from a year ago, with a bit knocked off due to Meier’s age. The expectation should be something like Zetterlund, Mukhamadulin and a 1st in value.

I don't think any value should be knocked off.
Jake's the better producer, regular season and especially playoffs.

 

[andora]

Esposito was considered a candidate to go #1 overall in 2007 early in the season, but he eventually slid down to 20th overall in the 2007 draft. He was traded the next season in the Hossa deal, so I still think he was considered a top prospect at the time. He ended up a bust but he was a highly regarded prospect when moved.

But overall, I don’t think that has much relevance. The return for Guentzel should be comparable to the Meier trade from a year ago, with a bit knocked off due to Meier’s age. The expectation should be something like Zetterlund, Mukhamadulin and a 1st in value.

Thats reasonable

 

[canadianmagpie]

I just read on one the first couple pages that somebody thinks Hoglander is too good of piece to give up for Guenztel.

Is there another Hoglander on the Canucks? Cause the only one I know of plays like 11 mins a game.

And Guentzel has three more goals while averaging 9 minutes more ice time a game.

If you want someone with more ice time, take Mikheyev then.

 

[Gurglesons]

And Guentzel has three more goals while averaging 9 minutes more ice time a game.

If you want someone with more ice time, take Mikheyev then.

Once again. Guentzel has 30 assists which is more assists than Hoglander.

Also, Jake has a better points per 60 at 5v5 than Hoglander.

 

[molon labe]

Any team (other than the Canucks) have a current roster player and prospect that makes sense?

I don't see Florida giving us Bennett but I'd love to see him on the Pens.

 

[Pens1566]

And Guentzel has three more goals while averaging 9 minutes more ice time a game.

If you want someone with more ice time, take Mikheyev then.

And almost double the pts ... if you're being complete about it.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

I just read on one the first couple pages that somebody thinks Hoglander is too good of piece to give up for Guenztel.

Is there another Hoglander on the Canucks? Cause the only one I know of plays like 11 mins a game.

Yes that somebody is me. And I still wouldn't trade Hog for Guentzel one for one.

He plays 11 mins a game and almost has as many goals as Guentzel. At 1/6th of the cost. Oh and he's signed for next year.

Don't know why I even have to spell this all out. It's common sense really.

 

[Extra Texture]

As a Pens fan, I'd love it if Jake wound up in Vancouver or Colorado. Sending him out west is a no-brainer, unless the offer from an eastern team is massively better. But those are the two teams I could absolutely see him signing with after a trade, and maximizing his value in any potential TDL deal (assuming the outline of an extension is agreed)

If the Canucks are still big game hunting after Lindholm, Jake going there and being part of a potential first franchise cup would be something really special. I'm sure with the Rutherford connection, and a team on the rise, he would get a handsome pay day to keep him around.

Plus he just seems like the kind of unassuming, chill guy who would probably love the lifestyle of the Northwest

 

[Empoleon8771]

The funny thing about all of this Hoglander talk is that I don't even particularly view him as that attractive of a headliner piece for Guentzel in the first place. In my eyes, he just has like a Jason Zucker type of 2nd liner upside. I think numerous teams, namely Florida, Carolina and Nashville, have higher upside players to offer for Guentzel than Hoglander.

The Canucks just aren't a good trade partner for the Penguins, from pretty much any aspect. If JR/Alvin weren't their GMs, I bet people wouldn't even consider the Canucks as a serious contender for Guentzel. They don't have the prospects or picks that match up with other teams, plus the Penguins would have to take back a shitty contract with term to make a deal work. Just a completely unattractive option.

 

[Ulf5]

Any team (other than the Canucks) have a current roster player and prospect that makes sense?

I don't see Florida giving us Bennett but I'd love to see him on the Pens.

All these hosers think their "prospects" are the 2nd coming lol.
I've read Nashville might be a dark horse.
Pens have no C prospects. (Well, Yager) Would Tomasino and Kemell work as a base?

 

[SomeDude]

Pens have no C prospects.

we also have no LW, RW, or D prospects.

Other than that, ship shape.

 

[Ulf5]

The funny thing about all of this Hoglander talk is that I don't even particularly view him as that attractive of a headliner piece for Guentzel in the first place. In my eyes, he just has like a Jason Zucker type of 2nd liner upside. I think numerous teams, namely Florida, Carolina and Nashville, have higher upside players to offer for Guentzel than Hoglander.

The Canucks just aren't a good trade partner for the Penguins, from pretty much any aspect. If JR/Alvin weren't their GMs, I bet people wouldn't even consider the Canucks as a serious contender for Guentzel. They don't have the prospects or picks that match up with other teams, plus the Penguins would have to take back a shitty contract with term to make a deal work. Just a completely unattractive option.

12. Pittsburgh Penguins: With 10 minutes to go on Saturday night, the Penguins led Calgary 3-1. Seventy minutes of hockey time later, they’d lost 4-3 to the Flames and 6-1 to Edmonton. With Sidney Crosby, it’s never over, but that’s going to be enough for management. GM Kyle Dubas has told teams he prefers two prospects for Jake Guentzel, rather than, say, a prospect and a first-rounder, which fits with his stated plan of getting younger, but NHL-ready talent. Retention and/or taking money alters the equation, but that’s the preference.

Big question: will Pittsburgh give anyone permission to talk extension with the talented winger? That could open the market, because teams who are not in position to win this year — but hope to be next year — may enter the fray. Current contenders include Vegas, Florida, Carolina with Edmonton and Vancouver as longer shots. Complete and total wild card: Nashville, simply because they are looking for offence and surging. But that could be my late-night, fried brain imagining things. The Penguins will honour Brian Rust’s no-trade and not ask him to consider waiving. Teams really like him. Reilly Smith is another to watch and there’s been interest in Alex Nedeljkovic. Aside from the biggest names, the Penguins will consider plenty.