Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

[Henkka]

I would drop the KHL to below the SHL or Liiga, although I don't admittedly know a lot about Liiga to make a solid judgement on it.

KHL has a lost a lot of talent the past year, hard to place them as the 2nd or 3rd best league out there at this moment.

Liiga is quite easy to compare, always against Sweden.

I'd say the Top7-8 of Liiga Teams could belong at same level as Swedish 14-team Top Level.

Then the Bottom7-8 of Liiga is equal to Swedish 2nd level.

So it's definitely worse league, than SHL.

KHL is not worse than Liiga, even though they lost those players. All the Finnish guys who did came from KHL to Liiga, are generally scoring better at Liiga level against easier competition. It's different style of hockey, many said that it's more skating at Liiga than it needed at KHL. I thought it was the opposite, but players talked this way. Then needed a totally different summer training to adjust liiga-hockey better in Finland, after KHL years.

The goaltending has been terrible. Their save percentages are awful and (although I haven't watched any of their games yet this year, I have watched the highlights for all of them and they show all of the goals) they have allowed some stinkers and a lot of saveable goals.
They looked pretty good in the preseason for the Wings though


A slap shot from the point

Ok, I did just see the dot on the AHL.com shooting chart, and the goal scored was marked on the wrong end blueline.

 

[Kingpin794]

100% agree.

That defence corp is good, very talented and promising with some pro experience. Coaching is a major concern for mine.

This. There's a large group of us that have been saying this for a while now. Give this medicore coaching staff all the talent they want, they'll produce a mediocre team. They'll hover around 0.500. If they're lucky, a few games over it.

Like this weekend, I'd almost guarantee they lay an absolute egg one game and then win something like 7-2 the other night.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

What is it

The AHL is not the 2nd or 3rd best league in the world. I agree with what Henkka stated.

NHL
-------
SHL/KHL
Swiss NL (current level, with multiple KHL refugees, some former NHLers)
AHL
Liiga
DEL
Czech Extraliiga

 

[The Zermanator]

The AHL is not the 2nd or 3rd best league in the world. I agree with what Henkka stated.

NHL
-------
SHL/KHL
Swiss NL (current level, with multiple KHL refugees, some former NHLers)
AHL
Liiga
DEL
Czech Extraliiga

Generally agree with that ranking, except for the Swiss league. No way they're ranked that highly. I see it more as follows.

NHL


SHL
KHL/AHL
Liiga
Swiss
DEL
Czech

 

[NickH8]

Generally agree with that ranking, except for the Swiss league. No way they're ranked that highly. I see it more as follows.

NHL


SHL
KHL/AHL
Liiga
Swiss
DEL
Czech

Go look at the top scorers in the NL right now. They've got a lot of outside talent.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Generally agree with that ranking, except for the Swiss league. No way they're ranked that highly. I see it more as follows.

NHL


SHL
KHL/AHL
Liiga
Swiss
DEL
Czech

The Swiss league has iced some really good teams this year. It pays pretty well over there and is a very skilled league.

Elite Prospects - NL Stats 2022-2023

I believe that if it weren't for NHL teams putting their draft picks in the AHL it would be below Liiga and in the 5-7 range.

 

[The Zermanator]

Go look at the top scorers in the NL right now. They've got a lot of outside talent.

Interesting, wasn't aware they had developed that much recently. Nevertheless, I see a bunch of guys who flamed out of the NHL years ago at the top end of the league like V. Filppula, Linus Omark, etc. But definitely better than I thought.

SHL
KHL/AHL/Swiss
Liiga

So I would amend it to that. My main issue here is the AHL is being really underrated IMO.

 

[The Zermanator]

The Swiss league has iced some really good teams this year. It pays pretty well over there and is a very skilled league.

Elite Prospects - NL Stats 2022-2023

I believe that if it weren't for NHL teams putting their draft picks in the AHL it would be below Liiga and in the 5-7 range.

Fair enough. Wasn't aware how much better it had gotten. Just remember a geriatric Joe Thornton who could barely skate in the NHL anymore going to the Swiss league and seemingly effortlessly putting up a point per game. But seems it's improved.

But on the AHL side of things, that's just the thing though. Teams send their top prospects to play there if they're not quite ready for the NHL. If the AHL was really below the Swiss league you'd think you'd see more prospects being sent to play there. I think you probably have a better assessment of the Swiss league than I do, but are underrating the AHL just a tad. If anything it's the KHL that's overrated these days. As opposed to what the Swiss league has clearly experienced, there's been a major outflux of talent from the KHL.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Fair enough. Wasn't aware how much better it had gotten. Just remember a geriatric Joe Thornton who could barely skate in the NHL anymore going to the Swiss league and seemingly effortlessly putting up a point per game. But seems it's improved.

But on the AHL side of things, that's just the thing though. Teams send their top prospects to play there if they're not quite ready for the NHL. If the AHL was really below the Swiss league you'd think you'd see more prospects being sent to play there. I think you probably have a better assessment of the Swiss league than I do, but are underrating the AHL just a tad. If anything it's the KHL that's overrated these days. As opposed to what the Swiss league has clearly experienced, there's been a major outflux of talent from the KHL.

Geriatric Joe Thornton is still one of the best playmakers of all time and is a first ballot hall of famer.

Regarding the AHL, the best thing it has going for it is proximity to their NHL franchises. (Minnesotta -- Iowa, Detroit -- Grand Rapids, Dallas -- Austin/Round Rock, etc.) It's easier to recall a player from Grand Rapids Michigan than it is Angelholm Sweden when there's an injury.

The average 1st line career minor leaguer's talent levels aren't that different across the leagues. Daniel Zaar, Ryan Laasch, TJ Tynan and guys like that will be top guys in those leagues. Where the big differences I've noticed are is goaltending and the skill of their depth players. A guy like Dominic Shine can be a 3rd/4th liner in the AHL but would be lucky to play that same role in the DEL. In the SHL there are more depth guys like Joel Lundqvist and Jan Mursak who had cups of coffee in the NHL.

 

[Frk It]

The AHL is not the 2nd or 3rd best league in the world. I agree with what Henkka stated.

NHL
-------
SHL/KHL
Swiss NL (current level, with multiple KHL refugees, some former NHLers)
AHL
Liiga
DEL
Czech Extraliiga

Lol, no

 

[Henkka]

Lol, no

Lol, Yes.

 

[Frk It]

It's kinda weird how every single NA player playing in the SHL has a higher PPG in the SHL than they did in the AHL... (some of them significantly so).... it's almost like maybe they went over there because it's easier.

At worst, the AHL and SHL are even. I still think the AHL is better.

To say the Swiss league is better is a joke. AHL, Liiga, and KHL are all easily better top top bottom than the Swiss league.

 

[NickH8]

It's kinda weird how every single NA player playing in the SHL has a higher PPG in the SHL than they did in the AHL... (some of them significantly so).... it's almost like maybe they went over there because it's easier.

At worst, the AHL and SHL are even. I still think the AHL is better.

To say the Swiss league is better is a joke. AHL, Liiga, and KHL are all easily better top top bottom than the Swiss league.

I'd like to see some numbers comparing AHL players going to the SHL and SHL players going to the AHL. I feel like it's the opposite. Look at how Puempel didn't score all that much during the covid year. That's just based on recent anecdotes though.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It's kinda weird how every single NA player playing in the SHL has a higher PPG in the SHL than they did in the AHL... (some of them significantlyt so).... it's almost like maybe they went over there because it's easier.

At worst, the AHL and SHL are even. I still think the AHL is better.

To say the Swiss league is better is a joke. AHL, Liiga, and KHL are all markedly better than the Swiss league.

My dude, you need to watch more SHL. Having a higher PPG average there and lower in the AHL is not indicative of the league being weaker. It’s indicative of the AHL playing dead puck era style hockey. It isn’t a very fun league to watch.

Also people going to NL, LIIGA and SHL over the AHL is because an easier schedule, better travel and better pay for the average player.

If you were a top minor league scorer would you prefer 300k USD with all the tax implications and a minimum of 72 games in a league that still employs goons and riding busses across the country?

Or do you prefer that same salary at 50ish games with better taxes, a much easier travel schedule, as well as access to international tournaments like Champions Hockey League that pays out cash prizes to the winners?

 

[Frk It]

I'd like to see some numbers comparing AHL players going to the SHL and SHL players going to the AHL. I feel like it's the opposite. Look at how Puempel didn't score all that much during the covid year.

I could be wrong, that was a pretty off the cuff remark TBH.

I just feel like I have seen it quite a bit over the years. Edvinsson is doing better (production wise) coming over this way, although small sample size so far.

I was looking at guys like Adam Tambellini and Ryan Lasch.

 

[Henkka]

It's kinda weird how every single NA player playing in the SHL has a higher PPG in the SHL than they did in the AHL... (some of them significantly so).... it's almost like maybe they went over there because it's easier.

You are looking in the past. Past is not present.

This current time is not comparable in the past.

AHL has weakened (expansion) and SHL has new TV deal --> more money to bolster teams, and KHL had top talented European refugees to sign for.

You are comparing the era before this change.

Everything changed after 2022 february (Russia started WAR against Ukraine, and non-russian players started leaving KHL).

You are right, AHL was better on the last 5 years, with less teams, and mostly best European talent at KHL.

But that's not the situation anymore. New SHL money power got many of those KHL players. Same with Switzerland, talent level is better, but the game or poor there. Sweden is dominating.

Don't be so blind for the change. It's a huge factor.

 

[Frk It]

My dude, you need to watch more SHL. Having a higher PPG average there and lower in the AHL is not indicative of the league being weaker. It’s indicative of the AHL playing dead puck era style hockey. It isn’t a very fun league to watch.

Also people going to NL, LIIGA and SHL over the AHL is because an easier schedule, better travel and better pay for the average player.

If you were a top minor league scorer would you prefer 300k USD with all the tax implications and a minimum of 72 games in a league that still employs goons and riding busses across the country?

Or do you prefer that same salary at 50ish games with better taxes, a much easier travel schedule, as well as access to international tournaments like Champions Hockey League that pays out cash prizes to the winners?

The SHL may have a higher skill level and/or be more entertaining to watch, but there is also a bigger ice surface and it's definitely less physical. Does that make it a "better league"? I wouldn't necessarily say so.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The SHL may have a higher skill level and/or be more entertaining to watch, but there is also a bigger ice surface and it's definitely less physical. Does that make it a "better league"? I wouldn't necessarily say so.

To me more skill = Better league. I don’t watch hockey to see Witkowski and McIlrath punch people. I watch it to see pretty goals and pretty passes and smart defensive plays and momentum changing changing saves.

 

[TCNorthstars]

My dude, you need to watch more SHL. Having a higher PPG average there and lower in the AHL is not indicative of the league being weaker. It’s indicative of the AHL playing dead puck era style hockey. It isn’t a very fun league to watch.

Also people going to NL, LIIGA and SHL over the AHL is because an easier schedule, better travel and better pay for the average player.

If you were a top minor league scorer would you prefer 300k USD with all the tax implications and a minimum of 72 games in a league that still employs goons and riding busses across the country?

Or do you prefer that same salary at 50ish games with better taxes, a much easier travel schedule, as well as access to international tournaments like Champions Hockey League that pays out cash prizes to the winners?

1. Don’t think there are many in the SHL making that kind of coin.
2. If they are US citizens they will still need to pay Uncle Sam for that privilege.

 

[Henkka]

C'mon,

0-3 at home field?

And shots are 16-14.

It's Finnish Olympic champion and World champion on the goal and that damn team can't do any favors for him.

You can do so much with team-work in front of your goaltender, and that damn Griffins team isn't doing it.

Bad coaching.

 

[Christien]

Hanas with a 3-point night including the GWG in overtime

Andreasson has been so good lately

 

[lhsgolf19]

Hanas calls game

 

[Henkka]

What a comeback!!!

0-3 and 1-4...

5-4 win.!

All Pontus and all Hanas. Very nice evening.

 

[Henkka]

Not sure who you’re describing, but it’s not Cross Hanas

Cross Hanas is having:

6+4=10 points in 12 games.

Becoming our shiny diamond down there. Our youngerst forward kid, doing well vs, vets and older guys.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Is Edvinsson injured? Didn't play Wednesday or today?