Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

[heyfolks]

Is the Yzerplan working?

 

[Gniwder]

Is the Yzerplan working?

The cheese is falling off the pizza,

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

The way team plays , don't know if it's good environment for Cossa.
Just like Red Wings has too many veterans , GR has too many kids.

Haha, there is a way to fix that, for both teams.

 

[Filppula]

I wouldn’t say that GR have too many kids. The whole system just sucks. Viro and Tuomisto for example should be in every game; they looked good in PS and yet they’ve barely played.

 

[Oddbob]

Running Cossa into the ground also isn’t smart. Let him get a reasonable amount of starts unless he absolutely kills it.

Running him into the ground? He is playing every other game at most. Goalies and athletes can handle bigger workloads than that.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

I wouldn’t say that GR have too many kids. The whole system just sucks. Viro and Tuomisto for example should be in every game; they looked good in PS and yet they’ve barely played.

Viro+Tuomisto, Edvinsson+Wallinder+AlJo, who is the 6th D and who sits, what are your pairings?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Is the Yzerplan working?

It's a slump. If goaltending can get sorted and Petry sits out for the rest of his life I still think this is a playoff team.

 

[Gniwder]

Running him into the ground? He is playing every other game at most. Goalies and athletes can handle bigger workloads than that.

Goalies rarely play back to back at any level. It is what it is.

 

[Oddbob]

Goalies rarely play back to back at any level. It is what it is.

Yeah, I know, I think it is silly. Might be one of the reasons there are so few good ones anymore. The game is not so much faster for goalies these days that they shouldn't be able to handle 60-65 games.

 

[Frk It]

Is the Yzerplan working?

In relation to GR? In relationon to what?

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah, I know, I think it is silly. Might be one of the reasons there are so few good ones anymore. The game is not so much faster for goalies these days that they shouldn't be able to handle 60-65 games.

I don't know why, I'm not a goalie. Just stating facts bud. I can't do the splits and wouldn't want to do it 2 days in a row even if I could. Maybe these kids should hire Jean Claude Van Damme as a trainer, lol.

The new workout routine:

 

[heyfolks]

In relation to GR? In relationon to what?

Yes....

OK, sarcasm aside, I do mean all of the above. His picks, signings, system, coaches, and staff. It has been 4.5 years since he took over as GM. What is the runway for marked improvement. GR appears to be a mess and has been since his arrival. Given the plan is all about drafting and growing talent, I am a bit more concerned about this team than the Wings. I am not expecting him to move mountains, but the Griffin re the 4th wort team in the AHL.

I just don't see marked improvement on any front.

Draft is the one area of hope, but that is true with every team and every fan every year. At some point the picks, should lift up the Griffins, and that should happen before the Wings get any better.... which may explain all the crap vet signings that make me twitch as if Holland were still in town.


.385 WIN % this year
.437 Win % last year.

TheAHL.com | The American Hockey League

theahl.com

TheAHL.com | The American Hockey League

theahl.com

 

[heyfolks]

It's a slump. If goaltending can get sorted and Petry sits out for the rest of his life I still think this is a playoff team.

I love the optimism, but don't see it. This team, still, can't score.

That said, completely agree on Petry. He is toast as a player in the NHL.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I love the optimism, but don't see it. This team, still, can't score.

That said, completely agree on Petry. He is toast as a player in the NHL.

Czarnik just cleared waivers so he's down in the minors now. Great AAAA quality player.

I really have to wonder if Grand Rapids problems are front office and/or coaching related. There's talent on the roster.

Kasper was over .5 PPG in SHL on the 3rd line
Soderblom was a top goalscorer in the SHL
Berggren was a top scoring rookie in the AHL 2 years ago and top 10 SHL scorer 3 seasons ago
Edvinsson was top U20 player in the SHL 2 seasons ago
Wallinder was a top scoring defenseman in the SHL last year
Mazur was a top scorer on an NCAA championship contender 2 years in a row
Johansson was a solid middle pair puck mover in the SHL
Hanas looked solid his final season in the WHL and looked promising last season before an injury in the AHL

But look at the vets:

Hirose is a very good AAAA level AHL scorer
Czarnik is a very good AAAA level AHL scorer
Gettinger is a quality AHLer

This should be a much, much better AHL squad than they are. I know the AHL isn't an easy league but it's not as talented a league as the NLA or SHL. The fact that they're doing as bad as they are makes me question coaching and training both on and off ice more than anything. Other AHL teams play a system well organized systems. In the two games I saw (small sample size, I know) Grand Rapids didn't have anything that resembled one. On top of this, Detroit's kids all came from very well organized systems; Rogle being run by the Abbots, Roger Ronnberg in Frolunda, Denver's championship team, Skelleftea who is regularly near the top of the SHL standings. Something is wrong here.

Another problem; Looking at their roster there are guys that I've griped about before like Shine, Didier, McIsaac, Spezia, L'Esperance and Sawchuk that are all as useless as a pecker on the pope. That's 6 guys eating minutes that simply put are not quality AHLers. I have doubts about some of their potential as more than middling ECHLers.

 

[Frk It]

Czarnik just cleared waivers so he's down in the minors now. Great AAAA quality player.

I really have to wonder if Grand Rapids problems are front office and/or coaching related. There's talent on the roster.

Kasper was over .5 PPG in SHL on the 3rd line
Soderblom was a top goalscorer in the SHL
Berggren was a top scoring rookie in the AHL 2 years ago and top 10 SHL scorer 3 seasons ago
Edvinsson was top U20 player in the SHL 2 seasons ago
Wallinder was a top scoring defenseman in the SHL last year
Mazur was a top scorer on an NCAA championship contender 2 years in a row
Johansson was a solid middle pair puck mover in the SHL
Hanas looked solid his final season in the WHL and looked promising last season before an injury in the AHL

But look at the vets:

Hirose is a very good AAAA level AHL scorer
Czarnik is a very good AAAA level AHL scorer
Gettinger is a quality AHLer

This should be a much, much better AHL squad than they are. I know the AHL isn't an easy league but it's not as talented a league as the NLA or SHL. The fact that they're doing as bad as they are makes me question coaching and training both on and off ice more than anything. Other AHL teams play a system well organized systems. In the two games I saw (small sample size, I know) Grand Rapids didn't have anything that resembled one. On top of this, Detroit's kids all came from very well organized systems; Rogle being run by the Abbots, Roger Ronnberg in Frolunda, Denver's championship team, Skelleftea who is regularly near the top of the SHL standings. Something is wrong here.

Another problem; Looking at their roster there are guys that I've griped about before like Shine, Didier, McIsaac, Spezia, L'Esperance and Sawchuk that are all as useless as a pecker on the pope. That's 6 guys eating minutes that simply put are not quality AHLers. I have doubts about some of their potential as more than middling ECHLers.

I mean people also need to realize the AHL is a better and harder to play in league than the SHL.

Only been saying that for awhile.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I mean people also need to realize the AHL is a better and harder to play in league than the SHL.

Only been saying that for awhile.

But...it's not. You saying this doesn't make it true.

The only thing harder about the AHL is the travel on busses and the longer schedule. Also goons.

It's probably the 4th or 5th best league (depending on how you feel about the KHL). Not an easy league, but if you think it's a harder or more talented league than the SHL then you need to watch more SHL.

The average skater in the top three euro leagues (SHL, NLA, KHL) is much better and often times more skilled than the average AHLer. And there's a lot of guys who are former NHLers in the NLA and KHL that are often the top scorers. SHL top scorers are often homegrown guys or imports from other euro leagues.

The AHL style is really, really different. It reminds me a lot of NHL hockey in 2000 to 2004 without the gamebreaking talent. There's a lot of clutching and grabbing. There's a lot of interference. It's not pretty hockey.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I mean people also need to realize the AHL is a better and harder to play in league than the SHL.

Only been saying that for awhile.

North American hockey is certainly different than Euro hockey. There is no question about it. Some guys appear skilled when they have enough time and space. As soon as you take that away you realize they really aren't that skilled.

 

[Frk It]

But...it's not. You saying this doesn't make it true.

The only thing harder about the AHL is the travel on busses and the longer schedule. Also goons.

It's probably the 4th or 5th best league (depending on how you feel about the KHL). Not an easy league, but if you think it's a harder or more talented league than the SHL then you need to watch more SHL.

The average skater in the top three euro leagues (SHL, NLA, KHL) is much better and often times more skilled than the average AHLer. And there's a lot of guys who are former NHLers in the NLA and KHL that are often the top scorers. SHL top scorers are often homegrown guys or imports from other euro leagues.

The AHL style is really, really different. It reminds me a lot of NHL hockey in 2000 to 2004 without the gamebreaking talent. There's a lot of clutching and grabbing. There's a lot of interference. It's not pretty hockey.

lol you saying it’s not and having a Euro fetish doesn’t make it untrue either.

Take the best 3-4 teams from the SHL and have them play a 7 game series against the best 3-4 teams from the AHL and I’ll bet heavy on the AHL teams and we’ll see who wins.

Crazy coincidence that all these prospects have a harder time in the AHL. The most logical explanation is usually the right one. The style of play is different in the AHL and they have better players overall.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The style of play is different in the AHL and they have better players overall.

Better players like Dylan Sikura?

The style of play is a far bigger difference than player talent. Also being a bad team is tough no matter the league.

 

[Frk It]

Better players like Dylan Sikura?

The style of play is a far bigger difference than player talent. Also being a bad team is tough no matter the league.

Naming one random player is some kind of compelling argument? (Especially when right now there are players like Kulich, Clarke, and Guenther in the AHL.)

I just don't know how you guys have seen what has happened with our prospects and don't think the AHL is not at least a harder (if not better) league to play in. I mean that's a heck of a lot of coincidences to believe.

And if the two leagues are 1:1 then why did Detroit choose to have Kasper play in the AHL this year as opposed to just stay in the SHL? If you think that wasn't to see him in a tougher league, or against tougher competition, you are telling yourself stories.

 

[norrisnick]

Naming one random player is some kind of compelling argument?

I just don't know how you guys have seen what has happened with our prospects and don't think the AHL is not at least a harder (if not better) league to play in. I mean that's a heck of a lot of coincidences to believe.

And if the two leagues are 1:1 then why did Detroit choose to have Kasper play in the AHL this year as opposed to just stay in the SHL?

Proximity and familiarity with small ice. That's all the AHL is. It isn't a step up.

The AHL is a much more degenerative league than most European leagues. It's a lot of plugs running around disrupting play moreso than teams with good systems making plays. It's ugly grindy chip n chase hockey. Not being good at that doesn't necessarily mean you're out of your depth. Just means you play better with better players in a better system.

 

[Frk It]

Proximity and familiarity with small ice. That's all the AHL is. It isn't a step up.

The AHL is a much more degenerative league than most European leagues. It's a lot of plugs running around disrupting play moreso than teams with good systems making plays. It's ugly grindy chip n chase hockey. Not being good at that doesn't necessarily mean you're out of your depth. Just means you play better with better players in a better system.

Have any of you actually watched an AHL game before? Since the 90s?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Naming one random player is some kind of compelling argument? (Especially when right now there are players like Kulich, Clarke, and Guenther in the AHL.)

I just don't know how you guys have seen what has happened with our prospects and don't think the AHL is not at least a harder (if not better) league to play in. I mean that's a heck of a lot of coincidences to believe.

And if the two leagues are 1:1 then why did Detroit choose to have Kasper play in the AHL this year as opposed to just stay in the SHL? If you think that wasn't to see him in a tougher league, or against tougher competition, you are telling yourself stories.

There are more examples but I don’t see why it’s not valid to look at a guy who’s been an AHL star for years and is now struggling in the SHL. It highlights that the adjustment can be difficult in both directions.

Teams bring over guys like Kasper so they can adjust to NA ice and style of play.

 

[norrisnick]

Have any of you actually watched an AHL game before? Since the 90s?

Yes. I turn it off after about 5-10 minutes because it's painfully slow/deliberate and about 5% of all passes get completed.

 

[Frk It]

There are more examples but I don’t see why it’s not valid to look at a guy who’s been an AHL star for years and is now struggling in the SHL. It highlights that the adjustment can be difficult in both directions.

Teams bring over guys like Kasper so they can adjust to NA ice and style of play.

Oh I see, sorry that was a totally relevant point to bring up and I get it now.

Ultimately it’s a fluid thing, but I do think the AHL is the 2nd best league in the world most years. That’s not to say it’s a big gap, or that the SHL doesn’t have really good players, or the SHL isn’t enjoyable to watch. I think the primary difference between the two is AHL teams are deeper because they have a deeper pool of quality players to pull from with the CHL and NCAA. (Bottom half of most AHL teams would be better by a decent gap IMO)

People on here (not you actually being European) seem to like to romanticize foreign players/leagues while calling the AHL neanderthals on ice, and I will push back on that any chance I can.