Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

[Oddbob]

Problem is we desperately need line drivers. We need some of our top prospects to exceed expectations to become a contender. Replacing 50 pt Copp with a 50 pt Kasper and 55pt Compher with a 55 pt Danielson will not get us there. We need some of them to excel.

Very good points. Getting Bertuzzi level players is not exciting or what we should hope for our top end prospects. Steve has now made our team to have more depth, which means we aren't trying to finish bottom 10 at this point. If even one of Kasper and Danielson doesn't make it, or if either are only 30-50 pt players who can play defensively, we are not going to be winning anything for a very long time, as what other young forwards will we be getting to magically provide offence? Without additional top 10 picks or outside round 1 guys becoming stars, we have no other major ways to add scorers.

We need at least one of those two to hit, and we also need at least one of Edvinsson or ASP to hit to have a shot to become something great. Of course it would be nice if we ever got a star outside round 1, but we haven't found any really good players outside round 1 in a long time. Tatar and Nyquist were good, but they weren't stars and neither was Bertuzzi.

 

[Twinger]

People really need to chill on Kasper. He is coming off a major injury, is new to NA, and is more of a supportive player offensively than a line driver. That isn't to say I don't expect a good season out of him but I am not surprised its taking a little bit and some better line mates to get going.

If he develops into a Bert that is better defensively and can stay healthy that is a really useful player to have. Him and Mazur could be huge for our long term playoff success as those are the guys that get big goals and are hard to play against in the playoffs.

I'm not against Kasper or Danielson but it seems like we drafted the same player in them. We need someone to take charge on the offence and I'd rather not rely on wingers

 

[lilidk]

Very good points. Getting Bertuzzi level players is not exciting or what we should hope for our top end prospects. Steve has now made our team to have more depth, which means we aren't trying to finish bottom 10 at this point. If even one of Kasper and Danielson doesn't make it, or if either are only 30-50 pt players who can play defensively, we are not going to be winning anything for a very long time, as what other young forwards will we be getting to magically provide offence? Without additional top 10 picks or outside round 1 guys becoming stars, we have no other major ways to add scorers.

We need at least one of those two to hit, and we also need at least one of Edvinsson or ASP to hit to have a shot to become something great. Of course it would be nice if we ever got a star outside round 1, but we haven't found any really good players outside round 1 in a long time. Tatar and Nyquist were good, but they weren't stars and neither was Bertuzzi.

Yzerman need to change his drafting strategy and try getting skilled and high hockey IQ prospects, like when he drafted Kucherov and Points.ASP was move in the right direction. I don't know if ASP will be good , but potential there

 

[Gniwder]

Problem is we desperately need line drivers. We need some of our top prospects to exceed expectations to become a contender. Replacing 50 pt Copp with a 50 pt Kasper and 55pt Compher with a 55 pt Danielson will not get us there. We need some of them to excel.

Yeah, I get the feeling Kasper is gonna be a lot like Copp, but hopefully with better shooting. I'm also hoping Danielson to be better than Compher from what I saw this preseason. I get that his WHL numbers aren't great, but the skill set was there.

But you are absolutely right in that we need players that can move the needle, not just keep it where it's at. Would be nice to get another scoring winger, maybe this draft.

 

[19 for president]

The Wings absolutely need another high end skill player. Ideally a center but I've liked Compher quite a bit and I feel like Danielson has the skill to pull off a 2nd liner center role. He reminds me a lot of a young Larkin. I'm not super concerned about his WHL play at the moment. I think he'll get traded or pick it up soon.

With that said guys like Kasper and Mazur for that matter can be incredibly valuable. They are the kind of guys that win you playoff games. Gritty, pesty guys, that have enough skill to play up the lineup with high end skill guys. They cost a ton as UFAs or in trade and as UFAs they've usually reached the point of diminishing returns once they've hit UFA status. So getting those guys through the draft is a huge boon because you get cost control before their play typically falls off.

Now go forward I think its time to take some risks in the draft with our higher picks. We have a the solid basis but need the homerun. With this team being built D out, I get what Stevie and team were doing to some extent taking the safer but important players. Now he has a lot of options with D prospects and picks to make deals or go for home run type picks in the draft without really setting the Wings back.

3 years from now you are likely looking at

DBC-Larkin-Kasper
Raymond-Danielson-Mazur
Compher-Veleno-Berggren/Lombardi
UFA-Rasmussen-Copp/UFA

*Hoping Copp is traded and we get another top 6 line driving forward.
*Not counting out Soderblom, Buch, Hanas, or Savage as well

Seider-Walman
Chiarot/ASP-Edvidsson
Holl/ASP- Wallinder

*Hoping we can dump either Holl or Chia before this point, but we'll see.

UFA
Cossa
*Maybe this Cossa's 1st season as a starter if he develops

This team is fairly well set up to just throw picks at the highest ceiling players they can for the next couple of drafts because we have the prospect depth for that not to kill the rebuild if we miss on most of them.

 

[Gniwder]

The Wings absolutely need another high end skill player. Ideally a center but I've liked Compher quite a bit and I feel like Danielson has the skill to pull off a 2nd liner center role. He reminds me a lot of a young Larkin. I'm not super concerned about his WHL play at the moment. I think he'll get traded or pick it up soon.

With that said guys like Kasper and Mazur for that matter can be incredibly valuable. They are the kind of guys that win you playoff games. Gritty, pesty guys, that have enough skill to play up the lineup with high end skill guys. They cost a ton as UFAs or in trade and as UFAs they've usually reached the point of diminishing returns once they've hit UFA status. So getting those guys through the draft is a huge boon because you get cost control before their play typically falls off.

Now go forward I think its time to take some risks in the draft with our higher picks. We have a the solid basis but need the homerun. With this team being built D out, I get what Stevie and team were doing to some extent taking the safer but important players. Now he has a lot of options with D prospects and picks to make deals or go for home run type picks in the draft without really setting the Wings back.

3 years from now you are likely looking at

DBC-Larkin-Kasper
Raymond-Danielson-Mazur
Compher-Veleno-Berggren/Lombardi
UFA-Rasmussen-Copp/UFA

*Hoping Copp is traded and we get another top 6 line driving forward.
*Not counting out Soderblom, Buch, Hanas, or Savage as well

Seider-Walman
Chiarot/ASP-Edvidsson
Holl/ASP- Wallinder

*Hoping we can dump either Holl or Chia before this point, but we'll see.

UFA
Cossa
*Maybe this Cossa's 1st season as a starter if he develops

This team is fairly well set up to just throw picks at the highest ceiling players they can for the next couple of drafts because we have the prospect depth for that not to kill the rebuild if we miss on most of them.

Appreciate the effort, but I don't think there's been a 3 year projection that has been anywhere close since Yzerman took over. I expect more trades.

But I agree with your end point which is to draft some kids with offensive potential. Plus a goalie. The teams that are successful in developing goalies basically pick one every draft because they're complete crap shoots.

 

[19 for president]

Appreciate the effort, but I don't think there's been a 3 year projection that has been anywhere close since Yzerman took over. I expect more trades.

But I agree with your end point which is to draft some kids with offensive potential. Plus a goalie. The teams that are successful in developing goalies basically pick one every draft because they're complete crap shoots.

I mean I'd love some Yzerman trading wizardry to secure that other top line player. I'd rather land a sure thing than wait on a maybe in the draft. The NHL has a limited window for cup contention thanks to the cap. Our best forward is one of our oldest core players, so I'd rather push now then wait another 3 years.

With that said, my 3 year was more to show the depth already there, and I don't think I super over projected anyone based on what they've shown. We are in a good spot to really push for homerun picks and another goalie or two like you noted. Or use that future capital to go and make a trade for a big time player.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I mean I'd love some Yzerman trading wizardry to secure that other top line player. I'd rather land a sure thing than wait on a maybe in the draft. The NHL has a limited window for cup contention thanks to the cap. Our best forward is one of our oldest core players, so I'd rather push now then wait another 3 years.

With that said, my 3 year was more to show the depth already there, and I don't think I super over projected anyone based on what they've shown. We are in a good spot to really push for homerun picks and another goalie or two like you noted. Or use that future capital to go and make a trade for a big time player.

That's kind of how I feel about the wings early drafting right now.

2019 onward Detroit has been picking foundation pieces

Seider, Edvinsson, Wallinder, Kasper, Danielson, Cossa as defensive cornerstones.

Raymond and ASP are the homerun swings.

The next few drafts have me hoping that Detroit gambles on more offensive potential

 

[Killerjas]

That's kind of how I feel about the wings early drafting right now.

2019 onward Detroit has been picking foundation pieces

Seider, Edvinsson, Wallinder, Kasper, Danielson, Cossa as defensive cornerstones.

Raymond and ASP are the homerun swings.

The next few drafts have me hoping that Detroit gambles on more offensive potential

I wouldnt expect less with 2x a 6th overall pick, a 4th overall with, a 8th overall pick, a 9th overall pick and multiple mid 1st round picks. Thats a lot of starpower you can get. Danielson and Cossa have not impressed me so far.

 

[Filppula]

No Lombardi in the line-up tonight. Probably a healthy scratch. Just don’t see the point in that. Look maybe he’s injured but this organisation gives me no faith in the decisions they make.

 

[Oddbob]

No Lombardi in the line-up tonight. Probably a healthy scratch. Just don’t see the point in that. Look maybe he’s injured but this organisation gives me no faith in the decisions they make.

He has 4 pts, that isn't anything special.

 

[Filppula]

He has 4 pts, that isn't anything special.

For a rookie on a team that has struggled to score. Geez you’re negative.

 

[Oddbob]

For a rookie on a team that has struggled to score. Geez you’re negative.

Kind of hard not to be when every single player is struggling for the most part. What is there to be positive about so far in the GR season? Outside 1 or 2 of our prospects, the rest aren't having great seasons. Seems like whenever someone is struggling there is always the excuses like, missing camp, playing hurt, really young,, new team, or whole team is playing bad so everyone is doing bad. At some point it is on the players and not just the situations they are in.

Add to that, the big club has played poorly for about 9 games now, or at least played poor in most of them, while Larkin has 2 pts in his last 7 and 0 in his last 5. We are not doing well, and it is because the vets aren't getting it done. If we were 8-6-3 and 2-4 youngsters were on the team and contributing, that would be exciting, but none of them are up, and most of them seem like they aren't really pushing the envelope to be up here either. Edvinsson is the only who looks close, and Berggren seems like he will likely just be a an AHL scorer or bottom 6 NHL guy.

To me it feels like we have lowered our draft odds, while not playing any kids and not a lot to look forward to. No way the Wings make the playoffs when we get scored on first in over 60% of our games, and many times don't start playing until the second period. Then there is the blueline which aside from Seider and Walman is really no better than what we have had in recent seasons. Lalonde also refuses to make changes in game when things are clearly not working or changing up lines really at all. Only time he does is when there is a guy in the box or hurt. The first line hasn't clicked in at least 8 games now, yet no changes.

Not trying to be a downer, but it is very hard to stay excited when nothing is really going great, main team or prospects, aside from ASP's great start in Sweden.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

For a rookie on a team that has struggled to score. Geez you’re negative.

Seeing the game from above is important to younger players. If you don't think the film breakdown is quite getting the point across giving them the birds-eye view is important. I actually used to sit with the AHL scratch guys in Milwaukee with my buddy. It was interesting to listen to what they picked up in game, but you could tell they processed concepts that were being preached.

I don't agree with it being a long scratch absent some unforeseen winning streak, but I totally get this tactic by coaches. It is tough, but I don't think it is out of bounds and a laundry list of NHLers have experienced this at several levels. Lombardi at the junior level was one of the best exploiter of space and progressive puck play in a while. His analytics last year really were off the charts. Getting that view of the zones where that space exists and the spacing with pace of the play is important in my opinion.

 

[Pavels Dog]

No Lombardi in the line-up tonight. Probably a healthy scratch. Just don’t see the point in that. Look maybe he’s injured but this organisation gives me no faith in the decisions they make.

It’s part of development.

 

[Gniwder]

He has 4 pts, that isn't anything special.

He's a Wings prospect as opposed to GR plugs like Shine, L'Esperance, and Spezia, or Stevie's garbage signing ZAR. I'll bet that ZAR winds up in Toledo before this season is over.

 

[Filppula]

Two goals conceded in 14 seconds and the Griffins are down 2-0 after less than 7 minutes lol

 

[HoweFan]

Where is Cossa?

 

[Christien]

Where is Cossa?

He started last night


This team is a disaster, wow

 

[raymond23]

Sucks we lost Jim Nill. Masterclass job in Dallas since he got there

What a shit year for our organization so far

 

[Filppula]

7-3 lol

At least they decided to play Lombardi tonight, and he scores. 2+3 in 12 on an abysmal team, no issues at all.

 

[Oddbob]

He started last night


This team is a disaster, wow

Not sure why a young guy can't start back to back. He wasn't even dressed tonight. Why do we need both goalies to be non NHL hopefuls?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Not sure why a young guy can't start back to back. He wasn't even dressed tonight. Why do we need both goalies to be non NHL hopefuls?

Running Cossa into the ground also isn’t smart. Let him get a reasonable amount of starts unless he absolutely kills it.

 

[HoweFan]

He wasn’t even on the bench. Surely we didn’t send him back to Toledo and bring Lethemon up to GR.

 

[lilidk]

Not sure why a young guy can't start back to back. He wasn't even dressed tonight. Why do we need both goalies to be non NHL hopefuls?

The way team plays , don't know if it's good environment for Cossa.
Just like Red Wings has too many veterans , GR has too many kids.