Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

[Gniwder]

Berggren is like Hudler. He's a catalyst. Play him with talent in scoring situations and he will improve those he plays with. Stick him with grinders and you fully deserve what you get which won't be much at all.

Offensively, he'll obviously put up more points with better linemates, but he still needs to be able to play defensively and win puck battles.

He'll be on the roster next season because he has to go through waivers. Whether or not he gets playing time will depend on if his testicles descend.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Berggren should be in the NHL.

The talent is there but the effort is looking like Mantha level this season.

If he’s in the NHL it’ll be for another team in a trade.

 

[heyfolks]

The talent is there but the effort is looking like Mantha level this season.

If he’s in the NHL it’ll be for another team in a trade.

I don't see it that way, or I see it the same way only from a different perspective. I don't think it is effort, I think it is worse.... he's soft. The latter is harder to correct. Said another way, it isn't effort that keeps him from the corners, it's guts.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I don't see it that way, or I see it the same way only from a different perspective. I don't think it is effort, I think it is worse.... he's soft. The latter is harder to correct. Said another way, it isn't effort that keeps him from the corners, it's guts.

Berggren last year and in Sweden was harder on the puck. He's never going to be a grinding cornerman so lower those expectations. He's a skilled, playmaking winger in the Gus Nyquist or Ales Hemsky mold.

Last year Berggren came into camp with a chip on his shoulder and wanted that roster spot. He earned it.
This year he came into camp and floated because he thought he didn't have to earn it again. I saw that in Grand Rapids, too. There's less jump in his step on the backcheck, less willingness to go to the hard areas.

Whether you want to call it guts or I call it work ethic or motor, the one thing that Berggren needs to change is his attitude.

I'll say this - I was a huge Berggren booster on these boards for years but this season has me thinking that Berggy is better off as a trade chip in a package for a better scoring winger or for an upgrade on RD.

 

[Ezekial]

I don't see it that way, or I see it the same way only from a different perspective. I don't think it is effort, I think it is worse.... he's soft. The latter is harder to correct. Said another way, it isn't effort that keeps him from the corners, it's guts.

I see it like that as well. I hope he becomes more aggressive and I think it would really elevate his game. At the NHL level I haven't seen him have the constitution to go out there and grind in the corners and fight for the puck. Teams started to put the body to him and push him off the puck and it worked. At this point I'm really hoping he can turn out to be a Tatar or Nyquist level player. He plays the game softer than both ever were, imo.

 

[19 for president]

Berggren last year and in Sweden was harder on the puck. He's never going to be a grinding cornerman so lower those expectations. He's a skilled, playmaking winger in the Gus Nyquist or Ales Hemsky mold.

Last year Berggren came into camp with a chip on his shoulder and wanted that roster spot. He earned it.
This year he came into camp and floated because he thought he didn't have to earn it again. I saw that in Grand Rapids, too. There's less jump in his step on the backcheck, less willingness to go to the hard areas.

Whether you want to call it guts or I call it work ethic or motor, the one thing that Berggren needs to change is his attitude.

I'll say this - I was a huge Berggren booster on these boards for years but this season has me thinking that Berggy is better off as a trade chip in a package for a better scoring winger or for an upgrade on RD.

I agree. He definitely was more committed to board work last year. I almost wonder if its injury related because he didn't seem to have this issue in the past.

I also would not be opposed to seeing him included as part of a deal as I think Kasper, Mazur, and Danielson are soon going to be passing him in callup order, and the Wings already have two smaller top 6 wingers in DCat and Ray.

 

[Dotter]

I think Berggren's fate is a top 6 player in the AHL. He's a tweener in the NHL that does nothing except chip in a goal here or there. If Wings are already scoring 4+ goals per game, then they don't need Bergy. He's soft and loses puck battles. He brings nothing to the table that Wings need.

I'd rather see a few less goals from a player like Rasmussen who brings size and can win battles, has reach and is defensively responsible than Berggren whose game is built around hiding in soft spots for goals.

Bergy isn't a Yzerman type player. And whoever compared him to Hudler is a bit far off. Bergy is much, much, much softer, no defensive awareness (or ambition), possibly lazy (or lacks hockey IQ), can't play along the boards. Bergy is a poor man's Hudler jockstrap without a fraction of the skill, strength, hockey sense, or defensively responsible.

Berggren is a Hirose: An AHL lifer.

At this stage of Berggren's career, the best we could hope for is Yzerman trading him to a stupid GM for assets. But I doubt his value is anything more than Hirose.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I agree. He definitely was more committed to board work last year. I almost wonder if its injury related because he didn't seem to have this issue in the past.

I also would not be opposed to seeing him included as part of a deal as I think Kasper, Mazur, and Danielson are soon going to be passing him in callup order, and the Wings already have two smaller top 6 wingers in DCat and Ray.

This begs the question, who would Detroit move him for?

Honestly, if he was packaged off with Copp and a pick I would hope the return is a top line scoring wing. Like a Sam Reinhart, Clayton Keller, Brock Boeser, Filip Forsberg, Kyle Connor level winger. Or Matt Barzal who can play C/W.

 

[Frk It]

Berggren last year and in Sweden was harder on the puck. He's never going to be a grinding cornerman so lower those expectations. He's a skilled, playmaking winger in the Gus Nyquist or Ales Hemsky mold.

Last year Berggren came into camp with a chip on his shoulder and wanted that roster spot. He earned it.
This year he came into camp and floated because he thought he didn't have to earn it again. I saw that in Grand Rapids, too. There's less jump in his step on the backcheck, less willingness to go to the hard areas.

Whether you want to call it guts or I call it work ethic or motor, the one thing that Berggren needs to change is his attitude.

I'll say this - I was a huge Berggren booster on these boards for years but this season has me thinking that Berggy is better off as a trade chip in a package for a better scoring winger or for an upgrade on RD.

Fine with keeping Berggren, and I'd actually like to see him get a chance in Detroit right now.

But I'll never understood why people were scared he was going to Ottawa in a package for a far better player.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I think Berggren's fate is a top 6 player in the AHL. He's a tweener in the NHL that does nothing except chip in a goal here or there. If Wings are already scoring 4+ goals per game, then they don't need Bergy. He's soft and loses puck battles. He brings nothing to the table that Wings need.

I'd rather see a few less goals from a player like Rasmussen who brings size and can win battles, has reach and is defensively responsible than Berggren whose game is built around hiding in soft spots for goals.

Bergy isn't a Yzerman type player. And whoever compared him to Hudler is a bit far off. Bergy is much, much, much softer, no defensive awareness (or ambition), possibly lazy (or lacks hockey IQ), can't play along the boards. Bergy is a poor man's Hudler jockstrap without a fraction of the skill, strength, hockey sense, or defensively responsible.

Berggren is a Hirose: An AHL lifer.

At this stage of Berggren's career, the best we could hope for is Yzerman trading him to a stupid GM for assets. But I doubt his value is anything more than Hirose.

I'm not sure if I saw the same player as you all...he wasn't great in the preseason this year but he was solid last year in a lot of games I thought. He's 23 and once again PPG in the AHL, he should have a spot on this team over Christian Fischer.

It's funny you bring up Rasmussen - I haven't seen a more useless player in the wings uniform since late career Dan Cleary. He has size, and that's it. He doesn't use the size, constantly falls on his ass, loses every puck battle, gets knocked off the puck easily, and does not contribute offensively. I'm actually not sure what his role on the team even is, other than being big. If Ras was 5'11" and played like he does he wouldn't be in the NHL. Berggren would do much better in Ras's spot on line 2 IMO.

Ultimately I do think Berggren will be a call up this year when the injury bug hits, so it'll be up to him to make the most of that opportunity. Maybe he's been a bit softer this year but he's got a lot of talent and we are lacking forward talent. The idea that he has no skill or hockey sense is crazy to me.

 

[wingerdinger]

I'm not sure if I saw the same player as you all...he wasn't great in the preseason this year but he was solid last year in a lot of games I thought. He's 23 and once again PPG in the AHL, he should have a spot on this team over Christian Fischer.

It's funny you bring up Rasmussen - I haven't seen a more useless player in the wings uniform since late career Dan Cleary. He has size, and that's it. He doesn't use the size, constantly falls on his ass, loses every puck battle, gets knocked off the puck easily, and does not contribute offensively. I'm actually not sure what his role on the team even is, other than being big. If Ras was 5'11" and played like he does he wouldn't be in the NHL. Berggren would do much better in Ras's spot on line 2 IMO.

Ultimately I do think Berggren will be a call up this year when the injury bug hits, so it'll be up to him to make the most of that opportunity. Maybe he's been a bit softer this year but he's got a lot of talent and we are lacking forward talent. The idea that he has no skill or hockey sense is crazy to me.

Disagree big time with the Fischer take, think he's been the ideal fourth liner.

Berggren's gonna to take over Perron's role next year if he retires or doesnt sign up again.

 

[lilidk]

Berggren is 23 and Nyquist first full NHL season was 25.

 

[Oddbob]

I'm not sure if I saw the same player as you all...he wasn't great in the preseason this year but he was solid last year in a lot of games I thought. He's 23 and once again PPG in the AHL, he should have a spot on this team over Christian Fischer.

It's funny you bring up Rasmussen - I haven't seen a more useless player in the wings uniform since late career Dan Cleary. He has size, and that's it. He doesn't use the size, constantly falls on his ass, loses every puck battle, gets knocked off the puck easily, and does not contribute offensively. I'm actually not sure what his role on the team even is, other than being big. If Ras was 5'11" and played like he does he wouldn't be in the NHL. Berggren would do much better in Ras's spot on line 2 IMO.

Ultimately I do think Berggren will be a call up this year when the injury bug hits, so it'll be up to him to make the most of that opportunity. Maybe he's been a bit softer this year but he's got a lot of talent and we are lacking forward talent. The idea that he has no skill or hockey sense is crazy to me.

No he shouldn't. Fischer is the perfect 4th liner. Can PK and has jam to his game. Having more offensive skill doesn't make you the better fit on the NHL team.

 

[Gniwder]

I agree. He definitely was more committed to board work last year. I almost wonder if its injury related because he didn't seem to have this issue in the past.

I also would not be opposed to seeing him included as part of a deal as I think Kasper, Mazur, and Danielson are soon going to be passing him in callup order, and the Wings already have two smaller top 6 wingers in DCat and Ray.

Burger is 5'11" 197lbs. He's just slightly under league average in both. He just plays small which is the issue.

I'd like to see a faster player on the 4th line instead of Fischer/Burger/Kostin. This team has issues against faster teams, now would be an ideal time to have Helm/LGD type players in the bottom line (with cheaper contracts of course). Kostin has been so useless I'd rather have a true enforcer instead of him.

 

[Murmansk16A]

Burger is 5'11" 197lbs. He's just slightly under league average in both. He just plays small which is the issue.

I'd like to see a faster player on the 4th line instead of Fischer/Burger/Kostin. This team has issues against faster teams, now would be an ideal time to have Helm/LGD type players in the bottom line (with cheaper contracts of course). Kostin has been so useless I'd rather have a true enforcer instead of him.

Sounds like you're describing Red Savage. Not as an enforcer, but the rest of the qualifications described.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Disagree big time with the Fischer take, think he's been the ideal fourth liner.

Berggren's gonna to take over Perron's role next year if he retires or doesnt sign up again.

Berggren taking over for Perron probably isn't far off, but there's some intangibles that Perron brings that Berggren just doesn't.

Perron is much more intense and brings his teammates to the fight. He's pretty chippy, though I could do without the dumbass slashing and hooking penalties he takes. And he's shown he's pretty savvy in multiple roles despite his lack of speed. Perron is ideal for a locker room leadership role as well.

Berggren is younger, faster, more talented by far. But it remains uncertain if he can develop some of those intangibles that make him more valuable.

Another thing to consider is that it's a pretty decent forward UFA class this year.

Nylander, Reinhart, Stamkos and Guentzel are the top guys.

Then there's others like Toffoli, Pavelski, Duchene, Teravainen, Lindholm, JVR, Niederreiter, Marchessault, Tarasenko, Monahan, Novak (who has come out of nowhere)

Trading Berggren in a package with Copp to make room for a big signing from the above (at 4 to 7.5million depending on who we get), signing Sprong to a 4 mil deal and bringing back Perron at 2.5-3ish is not a terrible idea.

 

[Gniwder]

Sounds like you're describing Red Savage. Not as an enforcer, but the rest of the qualifications described.

Oh, I like him based on just name alone. I also like that he's putting up some points after his transfer, the only issue is that he's probably gonna go 4 years and the Wings will only have one summer to sign him before losing rights to him. I think he'll sign though.

I think Kasper, Mazur, and Red will all be successful if they can get closer to Burger's weight. It's too bad Burger bulked up and doesn't use it. Ray bulked up over the summer (listed at 188) and he's thrown some big checks this season, that's what I want to see from all of the prospects.

 

[19 for president]

This begs the question, who would Detroit move him for?

Honestly, if he was packaged off with Copp and a pick I would hope the return is a top line scoring wing. Like a Sam Reinhart, Clayton Keller, Brock Boeser, Filip Forsberg, Kyle Connor level winger. Or Matt Barzal who can play C/W.

I mean I think Copp has a net negative value right now. He is overpaid for what he brings which is basically a pure shutdown center. Maybe he picks it up offensively, but right now I think he is a tad overpaid. Now if you want to hang on to 2 mil per season and deal him + Berggy and a 1st or 2nd, I think you could maybe land one of the lesser guys on your list.

Berggy is not a 4th line guy. Fischer, who I was not initially thrilled with, plays his role as a 4th line pker well. Berggy was competing with Perron, Fabbri, Veleno, and Ras. Ras is the only one I can say for certain has played badly enough for him to replace. Perron hasn't been great either but he provides leadership and winning experience. Plus he has still been productive points wise. Fabbri and Veleno have been great when playing and both get the ability to play center bonus. Berggren is the guy that was hurt most by us nabbing DBC. That plus Veleno playing well is going to make it harder on him to find something long term.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Look, if you want to trade someone because you subjectively think they are bad, you should not expect other organizations to want the player. Throwing additional shit into the deal won't move the needle, it needs to be something worthwhile.

 

[Dotter]

I'm not sure if I saw the same player as you all...he wasn't great in the preseason this year but he was solid last year in a lot of games I thought. He's 23 and once again PPG in the AHL, he should have a spot on this team over Christian Fischer.

It's funny you bring up Rasmussen - I haven't seen a more useless player in the wings uniform since late career Dan Cleary. He has size, and that's it. He doesn't use the size, constantly falls on his ass, loses every puck battle, gets knocked off the puck easily, and does not contribute offensively. I'm actually not sure what his role on the team even is, other than being big. If Ras was 5'11" and played like he does he wouldn't be in the NHL. Berggren would do much better in Ras's spot on line 2 IMO.

Ultimately I do think Berggren will be a call up this year when the injury bug hits, so it'll be up to him to make the most of that opportunity. Maybe he's been a bit softer this year but he's got a lot of talent and we are lacking forward talent. The idea that he has no skill or hockey sense is crazy to me.

I'm not seeing anything from Berggren that says NHL to me. If Yzerman can find a stupid GM to trade real assets for him, I say do it! Zadina was a more useful player.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Berggren scores at a 20 goal pace as a 22 year-old rookie and he's not an NHLer?
The Grand Rapids staff trusts him enough to play him more than any other forward on the team. He played 9 more minutes than Kasper, and more than doubled Mazur's ice time last game. He's not in Detroit because Yzerman signed Fischer and Sprong. Berggren will be in the NHL sooner or later, he has nothing left to prove in the AHL.

 

[lilidk]

I'm not seeing anything from Berggren that says NHL to me. If Yzerman can find a stupid GM to trade real assets for him, I say do it! Zadina was a more useful player.

You are talking about first line player who has 5 points in 20 games, Zadina is total bust

 

[Gniwder]

Berggren scores at a 20 goal pace as a 22 year-old rookie and he's not an NHLer?
The Grand Rapids staff trusts him enough to play him more than any other forward on the team. He played 9 more minutes than Kasper, and more than doubled Mazur's ice time last game. He's not in Detroit because Yzerman signed Fischer and Sprong. Berggren will be in the NHL sooner or later, he has nothing left to prove in the AHL.

Berggren is Sprong V2.0, lol, a younger version. He can shoot, makes some nifty passes, but won't battle for the puck, throw checks, or play defense. All the same reasons why Sprong was healthy scratched 7 seasons in a row on 4 different teams. Berggren will probably have a similar career as an NHLer unless he figures it out a bit sooner than Sprong did.

Sprong was dealt 3 times in midseason trades, I wouldn't be surprised if Burger winds up traded in similar fashion.

 

[19 for president]

Here's the thing. A lot of guys look lousy in their sophomore year. I mean even ostensibly better players like Larkin and Ray. So it's not like Berggren could not turn it around and player better next year. He just happened to be unlucky in the fact that Stevie went out and got a lot more roster competition for him this year, so he isn't getting the benefit of playing through it like others guys did. Adding 3 top 9 vet players can cause some roster shakeup and it did.

With that said the Wings probably aren't going to have a ton of mid 6 spots available going forward, so I'm not opposed to dealing him for a better player. I do think he is an NHLer, but much like Veleno he is a bit of a slower developer. Now he is in a spot where he not only has to beat vet players coming up but also pedigree prospects with more potential like Kasper and Danielson.

He has a chance again next year with Perron and Sprong being UFAs, but I could see Sprong being resigned. Then you have the chance of Kasper or Danielson beating him for a spot. It's going to be a hard go for him on the Wings at this point.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Soderblom hasn't played in the last 3 games. Does anyone know why?