GDT: Gold Medal Game Pt 3
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Pandaman11
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2009
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The officiating against the Czech Rep. was pathetic.
The officiating against Canada was at times questionable (just like Canada's D and goaltending).
Russia took dumb penalties.
Would have Finland won a QF against the USA? Who knows, probably yes. Finland deserved to win this tournament. The refs did not get them gold.
I've seen much worse in sports (e.g. South Corea at the 2002 football/soccer Worlds).
Well funny thing is in the final serie when MoDo won SHL they had 4-3 4-3 4-3 games against Linköping who pretty much had like 4-0 4-0 4-0 games.
And MoDo still won that final serie... and then the experts said oh MoDo had the advatange to have more games played
So i guess it dosent matter if you have had a harder serie,lesser time,more time there will allways be excuses like this
jj cale
Registered User
I agree, the refs did not give them the gold, they earned it.
Now I will wait and see if their fans will give other teams that will beat them in the coming year the dignity of not saying their win was due to bad or biased officiating.
To date from what I have witnessed on this matter their record is very spotty in this regard, as is the fans of most other teams also.
It's about the most annoying thing in International hockey.
I'll be watching to see how it plays out at this years WHC.
As I said earlier, I am not implying that Finland did not earn their victory on the ice, or that Russia deserved to be victors. Finland was amazing. Its hard to remember greater energy and emotion expended on the ice as there was on Tuesday by the Finns. If your team loses, you want them to lose to a great team, and the Finnish team more than satisfies that description.
The main point I was trying to make is that the penalties against the Russians in the 2nd period, at least in the eyes of many Russian fans, changed the complexion of the game. Russia had a lead and seemed to be continuously applying pressure in the Finnish zone. Then back-to-back penalties in the 2nd period put Finland on the offensive and Russia in a defensive mode to kill penalties. Going on the power play allowed the Finns to exert offensive pressure, back-to-back, and shifted the momentum to the Finns. Further penalties against Russia in the 3rd put Finland in a manpower advantage for much of the rest of the game.
Were the penalties legitimate, you ask? Probably yes. But that's not the point. I recall seeing a study to the effect that, in the average NHL game, about 60 rule infractions occur that merit a penalty. But of course, the fans would not tolerate the rule book being enforced if it meant having to sit through 120 penalty minutes per game. So they are required to use "discretion" to let some fouls go. To some Russian fans, there was just too much discretion in Tuesday's game.
Finland was playing at the highest emotional level I've probably ever seen, and they were running and checking and hitting everything in sight, especially in the latter 2nd and throughout the 3rd periods. And yet the last penalty called against a Finn was called only 8 minutes from the opening faceoff in the 1st period. How do you launch body attacks all over the ice and yet somehow mysteriously avoid committing any fouls? The answer is that you don't. We saw what seemed like dozens of infractions where the refs just swallowed their whistles. In that respect, penalties were a very important element of victory. But still, that doesn't mean that if the penalties weren't one-sided that the Russians would win or the Finns would lose. No one is saying that, because there is no support for such a statement.
IceHockeyDude
Registered User
The referees did pretty bad job. There is something seriously wrong in IIHF's refereeing and that has a very unfortunate impact on the experience of the game. It's sad for Finns and for others aswell. The players dont know when they will whistle and the fans get angry. In other tournaments as a finn I feel like we have got loads of crap from the referees. I gues this time it was on our favor though. Doesn't mean I would appreciate it at all but for sure im more than happy to win the gold medal.
Well, we have had our share of bad luck with the refs, sometimes it even feels like more than our fair share, but anyway. Homecrowd, our attacking style, perennially shaky iihf refs - these things happened, and have happened and will happen. But Finland deserved to win, and we did. End of story - I have absolutely no regrets that at times the calls went our way. Next time they very likely won't.
I think part of the complaints about reffing could also be chalked up to confirmation bias - I mean, people felt some of the calls even more unfair than they were because our guys were pretty damn lethal on power play. Had we had the "usual" 20-25 conversion rate instead of almost 40, this topic probably wouldn't have become the hot potato it is now.
You have every reason to feel great pride. What a performance by the Finns. They were amazing!
The Russian players have themselves to blame for that, not the refs. Again, the penalties called were legit. If you feel the calls shifted the balance of action and gave the momentum to the Finnish side, then Russia should have played more careful hockey. As simple as that. You cannot blame the refs for enforcing the rules.
Yes, the refs let the slightest and most questionable obstructions go without calling a penalty for the sake of securing the flow of a hockey game. But the "direction" they set by doing so last night was not in any way inbalanced against the Russians. If you think otherwise, please pinpoint for me the non-calls that you thought should have been called on a Finnish player.
As others have pointed out, you cannot just look at the number of penalties called against each team from which to draw a conclusion on the quality of reffing. The Russians were called more penalties against simply because they committed a higher number of infractions, which resulted from them playing on their heels since the midway through the game until the final 2 minutes. You're making an argument without a context.
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The refereeing in the final wasn't bad at all, definitely not against Russians. Actually they should have been on a 5 minute PK going into the last 2 minutes of the game because the captain injured an official by his careless actions. That is an automatic 5+20, no question about it. Instead he got a personal 10 minutes which allowed his team to continue on even strength and they tied the game.
There is absolutely nothing Russia can complain about when it comes to the refereeing. They got lucky it wasn't a 5 minute penalty.
And there really is NOTHING Russia can say about refereeing after the ****ing fiasco that was the world championships final in Belarus. That is what homerism looks like.
There is absolutely nothing Russia can complain about when it comes to the refereeing. They got lucky it wasn't a 5 minute penalty.
And there really is NOTHING Russia can say about refereeing after the ****ing fiasco that was the world championships final in Belarus. That is what homerism looks like.
Jussi
Registered User
Quotes from Russian tv commentator Sergei Gimajev who commented on the refereeing to Sovetski Sport:
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/mmkiekko/art-1452144779032.html
He disagrees heavily with notions that referees were the fault for Russia's defeat.
for the last part. It doesn't apply to Russians only, far too many fans of any nationality, especially on this site, do it far too often. To me it shows that these people often have not played organized team sports in real life and thus have no concept of losing gracefully and respecting the opponent.
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/mmkiekko/art-1452144779032.html
He disagrees heavily with notions that referees were the fault for Russia's defeat.
for the last part. It doesn't apply to Russians only, far too many fans of any nationality, especially on this site, do it far too often. To me it shows that these people often have not played organized team sports in real life and thus have no concept of losing gracefully and respecting the opponent.Actually, in any international tournament of any team sport, the playoffs schedule is usually made considering the host will secure the first seed of its round-robin group.
Usually, the host team looks for these things in the expected playoffs schedule of their team :
- playing in the arena they prefer (usually the bigger one),
- playing in prime time, especially if it's a week game,
- playing as soon as possible to have more rest for the team.
The first two points are money related and often prevail.
Now, the funny thing is that the team that won Group B was not Finland, but Russia !
So, Russia had the benefit of the schedule made for Finland.
And their coach actually complains.
You're a bit in the wrong here. The host is guaranteed certain game slots, regardless of seeding, as long as they make the given round. They're given this right to ensure maximum audience.
Still, the Russian complaint sounds hollow. In 2014, Finland had to work against schedule (with Sweden being guaranteed the optimal slots), and they still managed to win.
Quotes from Russian tv commentator Sergei Gimajev who commented on the refereeing to Sovetski Sport:
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/mmkiekko/art-1452144779032.html
He disagrees heavily with notions that referees were the fault for Russia's defeat.
If you are going to quote Gimayev, you should understand the context. He is a former CSKA defenseman who was very big, but too poor a skater and too much of an airhead when he had the puck to make it to the national team, other than for a couple of minor exhibition tournaments. But now he is the Don Cherry of Russian hockey broadcasts, always saying bombastic and eccentric things to goad the viewers. He "says what is on his mind," so to speak.
First, the fact that he felt the need to address the issue of the referees shows that refereeing was a very big issue among Russian viewers. And it is unwarranted to automatically conclude that because the flamboyant Gimaev said it, that it should automatically be accepted as truth. I'm not saying he's wrong - that's for everyone to judge on their own - but he clearly documents that refereeing was a major issue
on the minds of the viewers.
Even if no penalties were called against Russia for the entire game, it would be totally unwarranted to suggest that Russia would have won the game. There is no reason to believe that Russia would have won. In fact, the quality and zeal of the Finns would argue the opposite. But to observers of the game, it seems very accurate to conclude that the back-to-back penalties in the 2nd period totally shifted the momentum of the game away from Russia, and that further penalties in
the 3rd kept the Russians shorthanded and on the defensive the rest of the game.
And all of the penalties were against Russia. The only 2 penalties against Finland were in the first 8 minutes of the 1st period. After that, I guess they were saintly and angelic on the ice. Of course, under such circumstances, penalties were an issue, as they well should be. The IIHF has to get this right to ensure that all sides have a fair opportunity.
jj cale
Registered User
If it is totally unwarranted to think Russia would have won the game even if no penalties were called against Russia then why are you still questioning the reffing in that contest?.
Best team won, move on.
Best team won, move on.
Jussi
Registered User
Hockey is a momentun game and when the other teams gets it going and start to create pressure (saves were RUS 9 - FIN 2 in the second period), that tends to lead to penalties for the team at the receiving end of the pressure. As many neutrals even here noted, Russia's dmen were beginning to have issues with the speed of our forwards. Besides, the pnalties were prefectly legit would you have preffered that obvious penalties woudn't have been called just because Russia?
The IIHF does not have make sure each team has equal amount of penalties. That's complete ********. There's no rule that bothe teams need to have the same amount of penalties. Sometimes the other team is just better and the other team has to take the penalties.
Quotes from Russian tv commentator Sergei Gimajev who commented on the refereeing to Sovetski Sport:
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/mmkiekko/art-1452144779032.html
He disagrees heavily with notions that referees were the fault for Russia's defeat.
I think Finland won fairly and they were overall better - but the Finns were not entirely 'clean' in that match - for eg. for one of the penalties against Russia, the Finnish player clearly dove, attempting to draw a penalty, without the Russian defenseman doing anything to him. In a very silly move, our player made contact with the Finnish player (something of a smack to the helmet), after which a penalty was immediately called. But the dive obviously gets the attention of the referee.
could you tell me which penalty? if you got time to watch the game again. IMO i didnt see any diving, but some hits on the edge.
Jussi
Registered User
Which one? The whole game can be watched via TSN's site so please point out the exact situation.
http://www.tsn.ca/video/iihf-world-junior-hockey-gold-medal~776275
Jussi
Registered User
I assume you mean 1 hour 40 mark of the video? If so, that was in the 3rd period and Provorov got the penalty for jumping on Siikonen's back after Siikonen had already gone down. Finnish tv had the cameras on opposite side of the rink and that was in no way a dive. Siikonen went down on one knee while fighting for the puck and continued fighting for it.
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Meh, Provorov didn't force him down, looks like a dive to me. But whatever, the game's over - Provorov was still to have in any way touched the Finnish player, which drew the penalty.
Are you saying the bear-hug take down on Siikonen (#13 on Finland) didn't merit a holding call? Is that the incident you're referring to?
