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Question: Do you believe Sammy choked in the playoffs? He played decently and his numbers werent bad, but maybe that injury he got was not as bad, he just used it to get out of stressful games?
 
Anthrax442 said:
Question: Do you believe Sammy choked in the playoffs? He played decently and his numbers werent bad, but maybe that injury he got was not as bad, he just used it to get out of stressful games?
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You will notice rookie Joseph Woll playoff performance vs Sammy.
 
Samsonov, Woll, Murray

Three guys with a lot to prove. Who all might, maybe, be somewhat half decent. If they can stay healthy, that is.

The three together don't exactly give much hope for the fans.

You could put all three in net at the same time. At least two would get hurt. The other would let in a weak goal the first shot faced.

Thats just what they do.

The biggest failure of this management group has been treating goaltending as an afterthought. The Leafs could have God himself on the team. They'll still fail if goaltending doesn't hold up.

If the Leafs continue to treat the golatending as afterthought, I can only believe they planned for continued failure and mediocrity.

There is no other explanation. They're either stupid, or they're doing it on purpose. It's either one or the other.

Although I suspect it could be both.
 
Mess said:
View attachment 716244

You will notice rookie Joseph Woll playoff performance vs Sammy.
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Woll's goal allowed in OT was a rookie mistake, and not an NHL rookie, a 1st game ever playing net rookie mistake, it was just bad. ...he was okay and he seems calm in the net, but, i wouldnt bet a season on him yet.

Our defense is rubbish though, and Campbell tops that list, so, do you really need to look at those stats?
We let TB control the play in pretty much every game, and only outplayed Florida in one game, what do you expect our G's stats to look like.

Our D just cannot win the puck back in our own zone, and gives it away in our end much too often.

I think Samsonov was hurt entering the playoffs to be honest, but, if we can get an upgrade, I'd be open to it. ...but, very limited in Hart (i think has tons of potential as a game stealer), or Helle (who has his won playoff misgivings though looks better statistically, but, some of the goals he let in were pretty bad too)

Peace Frog said:
I would definitely be pretty stoked if we were to get Hart. Depends on what the cost would be, I guess.
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Samsonov would likely need to go back, and their value shouldnt be that far apart ...i'd offer Brodie or Robertson to get the deal made.
Brodie also clears cap space, and Pha may need a LHD to replace Provorov, Robertson they were rumored to like, so, the potential to make it a bigger deal too.
 
If Tre runs it back.... the only hail mary attempt to have a different outcome would be to solidify the net.
 
What would these numbers get an NHL goalie in salary arbitration?

42 games 2.33 0.919

$5M aav? Maybe more? Are we prepared to pay Samsonov that kind of money?
 
justashadowof said:
What would these numbers get an NHL goalie in salary arbitration?

42 games 2.33 0.919

$5M aav? Maybe more? Are we prepared to pay Samsonov that kind of money?
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IIRC, the Leafs have the ability to walk away if the arb award gets really close to this number (a few hundred K below?). I doubt any contract between the two parties will reach such an amount, and am hopeful that neither side will attempt to try its luck in arbitration.
 
I've seen Samsonov and Woll and Jack and Freddy play well enough to win.

I think our primary address has to be upgrading the defense.

I'm not sure what the approach is to trigger that killer's instinct from a shooting perspective in our core four. But not far from addressing our primary concern is to find forwards who wont wilt.

And I don't think Nylander is in that group. Until he gets 1PP minutes...

Winnipeg is seemingly crumbling and while the usual names are being bandied about, I'd be interested in Kyle Connor.
 
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Buds17 said:
IIRC, the Leafs have the ability to walk away if the arb award gets really close to this number (a few hundred K below?). I doubt any contract between the two parties will reach such an amount, and am hopeful that neither side will attempt to try its luck in arbitration.
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Why not do all of this negotiation now before qualifying the player? If the two sides can't meet on a number, don't qualify him. What good does it do to walk away from an arbitration ruling in late July after all of this summer's available goalies have been snapped up? Maybe you could take this approach if he were a forward. Also it's impossible for the Leafs to argue at an arbitration hearing that he really should be paid $2M aav, the numbers say otherwise.
 
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yubbers said:
So guilty until proven innocent? LOL

Or am I unaware of charges on him?
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There are no charges, just investigation, but....no one is talking so do you risk it?
I say no...same odds as Murray...not so good.
Why is Philly will to part?
 
Niagara Bill said:
There are no charges, just investigation, but....no one is talking so do you risk it?
I say no...same odds as Murray...not so good.
Why is Philly will to part?
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Philly was also willing to part with Provo for not wearing a jersey. Clearly, a bunch of progressive clowns run the joint. I'd prefer management that cares about results over woke PR.
 
yubbers said:
Philly was also willing to part with Provo for not wearing a jersey. Clearly, a bunch of progressive clowns run the joint. I'd prefer management that cares about results over woke PR.
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So would I but not to be found here in Toronto either………
 
www.dailyfaceoff.com

How should the Toronto Maple Leafs map out their goaltending for 2023-24?

Should the Leafs roll with something they have in-house or look for external help?
www.dailyfaceoff.com www.dailyfaceoff.com

If the Maple Leafs want to send Joseph Woll to the Marlies next season, he’d have to clear waivers. To me, that’s a non-starter. Woll would be claimed instantly. At 25 years old and with the upside he’s shown, Woll would be a steal for any other NHL team if acquired via waivers.

So long story short, pencil Woll into Toronto’s lineup. Because first off, I don’t think the Leafs have a choice. But secondly, Woll’s miniscule cap hit is a huge bonus for the club. He’s set to earn just $775k in each of the next two seasons. For a team as cap-strapped as Toronto, Woll’s tiny cap hit is incredibly valuable.

I think Woll has the potential to be a game-changer in the NHL. Not long ago he was on a very similar career path as current Dallas Stars netminder Jake Oettinger – his former junior teammate at the U.S. National Team Development Program. But Woll had a tough rookie year in the AHL. Then injuries and COVID-altered seasons in the minors slowed his progression even further.

.................

Ilya Samsonov’s new deal has to work for both sides. He needs to get paid like a No.1, and the Leafs need flexibility. Toronto cannot afford to get tied up long-term with Samsonov, especially knowing Woll has the potential to overtake him on the depth chart. It’s up to Treliving to find the solution.

I like the combination of Woll and Samsonov, and I think the tandem is capable of carrying the Leafs as far as the team’s defense will allow. But there’s still a missing piece of Toronto’s goaltending puzzle. And that’s Matt Murray.

In his first year with the Leafs, Murray posted a 14-8-2 record. But his game fell off drastically in the second half of the 2022-23 season. The two-time Stanley Cup Champion had a .926 save percentage through 10 games. But Murray’s .884 in his final 16 appearances was a major disappointment. And as has often been the case during his career, the Leafs netminder wasn’t available due to injury for a large chunk of the season

With one year remaining on Murray’s contract at a cap hit of just under $4.7 million, it doesn’t make any sense for Treliving to keep him on the Leafs roster. Murray hasn’t posted a save percentage above .906 since 2019 – four full NHL seasons ago. And he simply cannot be trusted to remain healthy.

Operating off the assumption that long-term injured reserve isn’t an option for Murray – which it still might be – the easiest route for Treliving would be to stash Murray in the AHL with the Marlies. But that move would only provide a savings of $1.125 million against the cap. Murray’s contract would still eat up just over $3.5 million towards the Leafs’ maximum cap total. That’s not ideal. And I don’t see any NHL team claiming him off waivers.

So unless Murray isn’t able to play next season, the stark reality is that Treliving will likely have to pay for his contract to go away. Maybe he’ll use some combination of the four fifth-round picks Toronto has between 2024 and 2025 NHL Entry Drafts. Or perhaps there’s another solution. I mean, the Arizona Coyotes will need to find players from somewhere. And they’ve never been afraid to go dumpster diving in an effort to stockpile draft picks.

Regardless, the Murray experiment has to end in Toronto. And I think Treliving would be wise to bet on a tandem of Woll and Samsonov. Not only are both goaltenders riding a positive wave of momentum from last season, but their combined cap hit would be manageable. And they’re both in-house options.

For me, there’s no reason for Treliving to trade for a goalie like Connor Hellebuyck or John Gibson. Giving up assets to obtain one year of Hellebuyck’s service doesn’t make sense. Yeah, the Winnipeg netminder’s $6 million cap hit is manageable. But he’s gone after the 2023-24 season when he becomes too expensive for Toronto as an unrestricted free agent. And Gibson would be yet another expensive reclamation project.

The Maple Leafs already have what they need in goal for the 2023-24 season. The franchise just needs to iron out the details. Look for Woll and Samsonov to battle it out. And possibly for years to come.
 
Hellebuyck sounds great but given age and likely contract demands I’m not sure I see the fit
 
justashadowof said:
What would these numbers get an NHL goalie in salary arbitration?

42 games 2.33 0.919

$5M aav? Maybe more? Are we prepared to pay Samsonov that kind of money?
Click to expand...

Nowhere near 5. Maybe a hair over 3 mil. Maybe under 3 considering it's only a 1-2 year contract

It's barely half a season. And his playoff stats aren't great either. He has a very weak arbitration case
 
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