Goaltending

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Question: Do you believe Sammy choked in the playoffs? He played decently and his numbers werent bad, but maybe that injury he got was not as bad, he just used it to get out of stressful games?

You need to go look at his numbers ago they were pretty bad.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

What would these numbers get an NHL goalie in salary arbitration?

42 games 2.33 0.919

$5M aav? Maybe more? Are we prepared to pay Samsonov that kind of money?

Not a chance that's ONE game above half a season.

 

[Gabriel426]

Sammy will be in the 3-3.5mil range on a 2-3 years prove me deal.

 

[koyvoo]

Question: Do you believe Sammy choked in the playoffs? He played decently and his numbers werent bad, but maybe that injury he got was not as bad, he just used it to get out of stressful games?

Probably didn’t play at his best, but not nearly to the same degree as the superstar forwards did.

Last couple of cup winners prove that if you’re best players play their best hockey when results mean something, you don’t need a marquee goalie.

And as much intangibles as people could throw at potential playoff success, from goaltending to trade deadline acquisitions, as much as those things have a impact, nothing will have as much impact the team’s fortunes as the potential of our best players playing to their abilities and standards in the playoffs.

When/if we win, it’ll be when the sleepy duo play at their best. When they are clearly the best players on the ic most nights ok the playoffs. The rest is window dressing.

 

[Stephen]

I've seen Samsonov and Woll and Jack and Freddy play well enough to win.

I think our primary address has to be upgrading the defense.

I'm not sure what the approach is to trigger that killer's instinct from a shooting perspective in our core four. But not far from addressing our primary concern is to find forwards who wont wilt.

And I don't think Nylander is in that group. Until he gets 1PP minutes...

Winnipeg is seemingly crumbling and while the usual names are being bandied about, I'd be interested in Kyle Connor.

There's an argument to be made that we need an "IT factor" goalie who can stand on his head and be the alpha on this team. Way back when, the Leafs went from a terrible team with a shaky goalie in Felix Potvin to a young run and gun team that managed to lead the league in scoring in one turnaround season. The reason, they had a peak Curtis Joseph who was just the backbone that let the scoring do their work.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Probably didn’t play at his best, but not nearly to the same degree as the superstar forwards did.

Why not just admit he was crap in the playoffs and got thoroughly outplayed by Bobrovsky?

Last couple of cup winners prove that if you’re best players play their best hockey when results mean something, you don’t need a marquee goalie.

Um... the Avs are pretty much the only team in the last decade to win in spite of thoroughly mediocre goaltending. Hill isn't a marquee goalie but he sure played like one for Vegas. Betting on Woll to be Hill 2.0 isn't the worst idea in the world, but Samsonov has had his chances in the playoffs and never showed anything remarkable.

 

[fahad203]

There's an argument to be made that we need an "IT factor" goalie who can stand on his head and be the alpha on this team. Way back when, the Leafs went from a terrible team with a shaky goalie in Felix Potvin to a young run and gun team that managed to lead the league in scoring in one turnaround season. The reason, they had a peak Curtis Joseph who was just the backbone that let the scoring do their work.

We havent' had that IT factor in ages. Maybe we saw a bit of that in Reilly this year but other than it's been long

Samsonov was never the IT factor, in fact he was the opposite. Hence why Washington lost confidence in him and let him go

There's no Tim Thomas in the market unfortunately

Helly can be that dude, but he doesn't want to play for Canada

Not sure if Carter has that factor either. Goalies are stretched thin around the league.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Goaltending has never a priority under Dubas.

Dubas inherited Frederik Andersen. And left behind Murray and Samsonov. The fans can thank Lou for Woll.

You reap what you sow.

Lamoriello got the goaltending he needed to make a bad team look good. Dubas got the goaltending he needed to make a good team look bad. You can't bemoan the inheritance if you don't try to fix the problem yourself.

It was a piss poor job for years.

If something smells bad in the basement, it will work its way up through the rest of the house. Which is why I'm really hoping Treliving can figure out a way to bring in a quality goaltender. I'm sorry, but I don't have any confidence Samsonov and Woll can do the job.

The Leafs keep hoping to catch lightning in a bottle with the most important position in the game.

They keep getting burnt instead.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Why not just admit he was crap in the playoffs and got thoroughly outplayed by Bobrovsky?



Um... the Avs are pretty much the only team in the last decade to win in spite of thoroughly mediocre goaltending. Hill isn't a marquee goalie but he sure played like one for Vegas. Betting on Woll to be Hill 2.0 isn't the worst idea in the world, but Samsonov has had his chances in the playoffs and never showed anything remarkable.

Tampa and Florida outplayed Leafs if you go by analytics .. to me Tampa v us was very very close series and Sammy won it for us .. Florida was just flat out da better team all series long and we lose even if Bobbo was in net .. we did not lose because of tending .. if anything we won round 1 because of Sammy

 

[The Iceman]

We havent' had that IT factor in ages. Maybe we saw a bit of that in Reilly this year but other than it's been long

Samsonov was never the IT factor, in fact he was the opposite. Hence why Washington lost confidence in him and let him go

There's no Tim Thomas in the market unfortunately

Helly can be that dude, but he doesn't want to play for Canada

Not sure if Carter has that factor either. Goalies are stretched thin around the league.

By the time Tim Thomas was 30 years old he had 4 NHL appearances, he was a massive late bloomer.

 

[saltming]

Tampa and Florida outplayed Leafs if you go by analytics .. to me Tampa v us was very very close series and Sammy won it for us .. Florida was just flat out da better team all series long and we lose even if Bobbo was in net .. we did not lose because of tending .. if anything we won round 1 because of Sammy

We won because vasy was atrocious at a .875%
Samsonov at .898% was not the difference. Both goalies were atrocious. We were the better team and goaltending was equal

 

[Mess]

We won because vasy was atrocious at a .875%
Samsonov at .898% was not the difference. Both goalies were atrocious. We were the better team and goaltending was equal

Tampa Bay simply ran out of gas .. 2 X Stanley Cups + SCF is a lot of extra high pressure hockey above any other team.

You could see they were fading down the stretch of the regular season ... Tampa Bay simply didn't play very well and neither did our Leafs for that matter and a few things simply bounced their way this time. Both goalies were very poor in the series and so that made the outcome questionable no matter who would have won.

I actually thought the Leafs played much better the year prior when they lost to Tampa in round #1.

 

[the Mighty Oak]

Tampa Bay simply ran out of gas .. 2 X Stanley Cups + SCF is a lot of extra high pressure hockey above any other team.

You could see they were fading down the stretch of the regular season ... Tampa Bay simply didn't play very well and neither did our Leafs for that matter and a few things simply bounced their way this time. Both goalies were very poor in the series and so that made the outcome questionable no matter who would have won.

I actually thought the Leafs played much better the year prior when they lost to Tampa in round #1.

I thought Tampa was a better team this year in the playoffs.

 

[saltming]

Tampa Bay simply ran out of gas .. 2 X Stanley Cups + SCF is a lot of extra high pressure hockey above any other team.

You could see they were fading down the stretch of the regular season ... Tampa Bay simply didn't play very well and neither did our Leafs for that matter and a few things simply bounced their way this time. Both goalies were very poor in the series and so that made the outcome questionable no matter who would have won.

I actually thought the Leafs played much better the year prior when they lost to Tampa in round #1.

Still means we were the better team

 

[JT AM da real deal]

We won because vasy was atrocious at a .875%
Samsonov at .898% was not the difference. Both goalies were atrocious. We were the better team and goaltending was equal

As you know i don't go by numbers ever .. i saw every game of series live and Sammy WON games 3 and 4 with OUTSTANDING 3rd periods and OTs .. i mean both those games were close and $$$ tenders makes HUGE 10 beller saves when it counts .. and when it COUNTED Sammy was outstanding .. even game 6 he was DAMN good .. Sammy BEAT Vasi flat out

 

[saltming]

As you know i don't go by numbers ever .. i saw every game of series live and Sammy WON games 3 and 4 with OUTSTANDING 3rd periods and OTs .. i mean both those games were close and $$$ tenders makes HUGE 10 beller saves when it counts .. and when it COUNTED Sammy was outstanding .. even game 6 he was DAMN good .. Sammy BEAT Vasi flat out

I'm not denying he made some big saves but in general he was just meh, numbers and my eyes agree on that.
Bobrovsky on the other hand was a game thief. He was on fire, but then that wore out and he normalized.
Was samsonov hurt or was it nerves? No clue but he was no where near his regular season form.
For the record, Imo, every save made is just as important as every other one. It's a great story to romanticize the acrobatic 10 bell save that preserves the less or keeps it tied but if he let's in the easy stop right after, it means nothing.
Bottom line is Sammy did not win us that series, or Imo, a game. He did his job, but was not as good as he was in the regular season.

 

[ToneDog]

As you know i don't go by numbers ever .. i saw every game of series live and Sammy WON games 3 and 4 with OUTSTANDING 3rd periods and OTs .. i mean both those games were close and $$$ tenders makes HUGE 10 beller saves when it counts .. and when it COUNTED Sammy was outstanding .. even game 6 he was DAMN good .. Sammy BEAT Vasi flat out

We have had the second best goalie in 7 of 8 playoff series. Sammy > Vasi this year. He won us the closeout game. Something Andy and Soup could not do.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I'm not denying he made some big saves but in general he was just meh, numbers and my eyes agree on that.
Bobrovsky on the other hand was a game thief. He was on fire, but then that wore out and he normalized.
Was samsonov hurt or was it nerves? No clue but he was no where near his regular season form.
For the record, Imo, every save made is just as important as every other one. It's a great story to romanticize the acrobatic 10 bell save that preserves the less or keeps it tied but if he let's in the easy stop right after, it means nothing.
Bottom line is Sammy did not win us that series, or Imo, a game. He did his job, but was not as good as he was in the regular season.

I could care less about regular season hockey .. after watching Freddy and Soup sh*t da bed for years i know Sammy is better than those 2 losers .. tender numbers are total garbage .. it comes down to 3rd periods and OTs and 1 tender beating da other .. Sammy destroyed Vasi in a very very very tight series .. and yes Bobbo was better than Sammy as well but Leaf team was not even remotely close to being in that series .. Patrick Roy would not have won us series 2

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I'm not denying he made some big saves but in general he was just meh, numbers and my eyes agree on that.
Bobrovsky on the other hand was a game thief. He was on fire, but then that wore out and he normalized.
Was samsonov hurt or was it nerves? No clue but he was no where near his regular season form.
For the record, Imo, every save made is just as important as every other one. It's a great story to romanticize the acrobatic 10 bell save that preserves the less or keeps it tied but if he let's in the easy stop right after, it means nothing.
Bottom line is Sammy did not win us that series, or Imo, a game. He did his job, but was not as good as he was in the regular season.

He most definitely was. I don’t think we ever found out what exactly it was that was aggravating him but he was not 100% the entire playoffs.

 

[saltming]

I could care less about regular season hockey .. after watching Freddy and Soup sh*t da bed for years i know Sammy is better than those 2 losers .. tender numbers are total garbage .. it comes down to 3rd periods and OTs and 1 tender beating da other .. Sammy destroyed Vasi in a very very very tight series .. and yes Bobbo was better than Sammy as well but Leaf team was not even remotely close to being in that series .. Patrick Roy would not have won us series 2

Soup was never good and Freddie never had a team this good.
I'm using regular season to compare the same goalies performance. It's way more prevalent than comparing him to past goalies when I'm discussing his performance.
I also feel Sammy put us behind the 8ball in the Fla series. Again, he did not play as well as he did in the regular season. I know you don't care but it is what it is.
The idea that it comes down to timely stops is great but if the goalie doesn't make every stop before that "timely stop" the point of it is moot. The idea is a great way to sell stories and create bonds. Every save is equally important. I will abmit its great to watch and very exciting when the goalie makes a great athletic save but it's no less important than every lame boring save he made before. Campbell is a great example of that, he made lots of "great saves" that had the fanbase oohung and ahhing but would let a beach ball in regularly.
We won vs tb because vasy was worse

He most definitely was. I don’t think we ever found out what exactly it was that was aggravating him but he was not 100% the entire playoffs.

This is my thought too.

 

[MicronMega]

Treliving should try Korpisalo? Not sure what the price tag would be?

 

[Frostitute]

Goaltending is the most important position on a team, period. I have been saying it for years, we need a star. I am actually a fan of Sammy, and I dont mind keeping him but only untill we find a star.

People may think I'm an idiot from here on out in the post, that's fine by me.

I don't care what it costs. Get me a stud goaltender. If you can get a Shesterkin level goalie, they can have Marner, my first rounder, Sammy and Robertson. They want 2x1sts? Fine. Done. Just give me the stud goalie.

I want a guy back there who steals games, gives his teammates the knowledge that a game has NEVER gotten away from us and who is in their prime.

I haven't seen a goalie in Blue and White inspire confidence since The Eagle, and even he was beyond his best days.

Do the damn thing. Give the assets, cut the cheque, whatever the hell ya gotta do. Its like we are an MLB team with amazing bats and AA pitchers. I'm sick of it already.

Once again, goaltending is the MOST important position in this sport. It's not even close. Let's act like it already.

Ok, crazy person rant done. I'll go back to normal now haha.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Soup was never good and Freddie never had a team this good.
I'm using regular season to compare the same goalies performance. It's way more prevalent than comparing him to past goalies when I'm discussing his performance.
I also feel Sammy put us behind the 8ball in the Fla series. Again, he did not play as well as he did in the regular season. I know you don't care but it is what it is.
The idea that it comes down to timely stops is great but if the goalie doesn't make every stop before that "timely stop" the point of it is moot. The idea is a great way to sell stories and create bonds. Every save is equally important. I will abmit its great to watch and very exciting when the goalie makes a great athletic save but it's no less important than every lame boring save he made before. Campbell is a great example of that, he made lots of "great saves" that had the fanbase oohung and ahhing but would let a beach ball in regularly.
We won vs tb because vasy was worse


This is my thought too.

He wasn't great but the team certainly let him down in front of him. That second period in game 2 was inexcusable from a defensive standpoint, and few teams will survive scoring only 2 goals a game in the playoffs. Could also argue Keefe and company should've seen the writing on the wall and pulled Samsonov for Woll before the Schenn collision ended his season.

 

[Super Mega]

Didn't we just watch Adin Hill win a cup? You need a goalie that can play competently, and a team that limits the opposition.

Overpaying for a stud goalie would weaken the team, and I do not want a large salary locked into that position given the general lack of consistency for all players at that position.

Sammy/Woll will be fine, I rather see assets used for F/D

 

[saltming]

He wasn't great but the team certainly let him down in front of him. That second period in game 2 was inexcusable from a defensive standpoint, and few teams will survive scoring only 2 goals a game in the playoffs. Could also argue Keefe and company should've seen the writing on the wall and pulled Samsonov for Woll before the Schenn collision ended his season.

Speaking spicifically about the Fla series, I think in general we were the better team but bob was just on another level and that second period, if we were up 2 or 3 goals by that time, and we could have been, probably would have played out differently.
I hope I'm not coming off as a samsonov detractor, because I see his potential. I just don't think he was on his game in the playoffs likely due to battling injury.
That said, from a technical standpoint I really like Woll and hopefully he gets a good shot next season.