Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part VIII

[Emerica]

I would not trade Holden, keep him and resign him at maybe 2 years.

Yeah he’s perfectly fine as a #6/7. Get him on a one or two year deal at $1-1.75M and he can come in and out of the lineup as needed. Easy contract to move at the deadline

 

[HSF]

Holden re-signing is the exact type of move that screws things up. It seems like everyone wants Dorion to learn, but apparently fans don't learn.

They need a Top 4 D. Period. This nonsense of heaping that pressure on Sanderson is not how you build a playoff team. And they should not do it. Be smart, stay focussed on long term and avoid tying up money in the Holdens of the workd, which are dime a dozen, and once they clean up the books this offseason, they absolutely have toa add a Top 4 D, and a top 6 forward with credentials.

Funny, with Stutzle playing at center, wonder if Dadonov getting another chance would have fixed a problem that the team has now

Chabot - Zub
Bransstrom - TOP 4 defensemen
Sanderson - Zaitsev
ex Holden

then call up Thompson or JBD when injuries come up which they will

 

[coladin]

But knowing they won't go out and get a top 4 as the most likely scenario, there's some logic to the idea. Holden has at least shown he's capable of playing at the NHL level, is now somewhat of a known commodity, and he has a role he can fit in and actually play up to. It's not like bringing in a wild card like Hainsey, Gudbransson or Del Zotto that's then expected to be something they're not. I'm on the fence, but hanging on to actual NHL players is not their worst strategy imo.

I like Holden, and that was before the cool video after the game.

But they are going to clear 8-10M off the books to get two proper pieces, they have the money or will have the money just from their internal moves

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I like Holden, and that was before the cool video after the game.

But they are going to clear 8-10M off the books to get two proper pieces, they have the money or will have the money just from their internal moves

Yes, he's been solid imo.

If they're prepared to make it happen for a real top 4, I'm on board for not re-upping him.

 

[bert]

Holden re-signing is the exact type of move that screws things up. It seems like everyone wants Dorion to learn, but apparently fans don't learn.

They need a Top 4 D. Period. This nonsense of heaping that pressure on Sanderson is not how you build a playoff team. And they should not do it. Be smart, stay focussed on long term and avoid tying up money in the Holdens of the world, which are dime a dozen, and once they clean up the books this offseason, they absolutely have toa add a Top 4 D, and a top 6 forward with credentials.

Funny, with Stutzle playing at center, wonder if Dadonov getting another chance would have fixed a problem that the team has now

He is perfect on the third pairing. Screws up absolutely nothing. If you can't see the difference between Holden and some of the guys they signed that's a you thing. Need a mix of vets and young players. He is clearly a real veteran that gets it. He is good in his role.

 

[coladin]

Chabot - Zub
Bransstrom - TOP 4 defensemen
Sanderson - Zaitsev
ex Holden

then call up Thompson or JBD when injuries come up which they will

At the worst, yes. But I don't think he is at that point to take 6-7 money. If he is, well, I guess. But he is just going to get in the way of Thomson and JBD. You have to consider Chabot-Zub-AZaitsev and Top 4 guy as vets. Do we need Holden too?

 

[coladin]

He is perfect on the third pairing. Screws up absolutely nothing. If you can't see the difference between Holden and some of the guys they signed that's a you thing. Need a mix of vets and young players. He is clearly a real veteran that gets it. He is good in his role.

I like Holden, and it isn't about him not being good enough for a role. This is just another typical, poor, and desperate signing that Ottawa routinely makes. Soon enough, it will be Del Zottoed because age catches up to these guys. There is no reason to have him next year IF you have:

Chabot-Zub
Brannstrom- Top 4 (with credentials)
Sanderson- Zaitsev
JBD - Thomson

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I like Holden but our backend is gonna get crowded pretty fast with Sanderson, JBD and Thomson coming in.

The only way keeping Holden works is if we manage to dump Zaitsev and Del Zottot and not take a D back. Fat chance of that happening.

 

[Tuna99]

Tierney won’t return much at all at the deadline - he has 1 point, -5 and avg. 12 minutes of icetime his last 12GP

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

On Holden and the D core, I would rather have too much talent than not enough. Barring some absurd overpayment or too much term, we can move players that can play NHL hockey easily if it comes to that. That's what a lot of teams do.

The problem isn't with guys that hold their own and get in the way unless their contracts make them unmovable.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I like Holden but our backend is gonna get crowded pretty fast with Sanderson, JBD and Thomson coming in.

The only way keeping Holden works is if we manage to dump Zaitsev and Del Zottot and not take a D back. Fat chance of that happening.

I think there's room for him as the 3rd pairing LD if Brannstrom is moved for forward help.

Chabot - Zaitsev
Sanderson - Zub
Holden - Thomson/JBD
MDZ, JBD/Thomson

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I don't think people understand what type of damage we can do next year if we add a top 4 RD. It doesn't even need to be someone top quality. Someone like Montour or Miller.

Sanderson on LD and another RD and this team will fly. Thomson replaces Zaitsev full time second half of next year and JBD replaces Miller or Montour full time in couple years. If only.

 

[TheDebater]

Still early for me to make a firm decision on Holden to be honest, so I will see how the rest of the season plays out before jumping on the "sign him" or "trade him" bandwagons.

I was indifferent about Demelo being traded, because he would have helped if he stayed, but would be taking up a valuable spot if we had signed him long-term and I do not see Demelo as a difference maker, same goes for Holden.

 

[aragorn]

Tierney won’t return much at all at the deadline - he has 1 point, -5 and avg. 12 minutes of icetime his last 12GP

The trade deadline is Mar 21, 2022 so there is still lots of time for him to increase his value & I'm quite sure they will try to showcase him to increase his value & give him more ice time to try & get more for him as they approach that date.

On another note:
- Ottawa has 4 experienced defencemen in Chabot, Zub, Zaitsev & MDZ. Zaitsev has 2 more yrs on his contract & MDZ has 1 more yr on his contract. Unless they trade either guy or buy them out I expect they will be back for next yr. For these reasons I'm not sure they will sign a top 4 D.

- Mete is rarely mentioned & he is an RFA, not sure if they will re-sign him or not. Heatherington is another guy who has quietly played a good stay at home defensive game, also not sure if he gets re-signed.

- Holden has been good but let's face it, he's an aging UFA that might be worth something decent at the TDL & it's most likely they will trade him for something. They could bring him back this summer, but I doubt it when they have other D in the system that are coming & are NHL ready.

- Sanderson is likely leaving school & he could be one of the best defencemen not in the NHL. Chances are that once he leaves school he will likely go directly into the lineup. Brannstrom is another guy that most think is NHL ready & should also be in their lineup already if he remains in the org.

- Thomson & JBD are both right shots & Thomson has shown that he is close to NHL ready. We'll soon see if JBD is also NHL ready but both have until the remainder of the season & next summer to prove they belong on the team. That's 10 defencemen in the org that could be fighting for a job on the team next yr if some of them are re-signed.

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Zaitsev
MDZ - Thomson
Brannstrom - JBD
Mete - Heatherington

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Still early for me to make a firm decision on Holden to be honest, so I will see how the rest of the season plays out before jumping on the "sign him" or "trade him" bandwagons.

I was indifferent about Demelo being traded, because he would have helped if he stayed, but would be taking up a valuable spot if we had signed him long-term and I do not see Demelo as a difference maker, same goes for Holden.

Sounds like your issue is term

 

[HSF]

At the worst, yes. But I don't think he is at that point to take 6-7 money. If he is, well, I guess. But he is just going to get in the way of Thomson and JBD. You have to consider Chabot-Zub-AZaitsev and Top 4 guy as vets. Do we need Holden too?

why would Holden get more than 6-7 money when that is what he has been?

If he wants top 4 money then trade him sure

 

[HSF]

I like Holden but our backend is gonna get crowded pretty fast with Sanderson, JBD and Thomson coming in.

The only way keeping Holden works is if we manage to dump Zaitsev and Del Zottot and not take a D back. Fat chance of that happening.

we aren't running with all of Sanderson JBD and Thomson next season I hope

thats going to be a disaster

 

[Micklebot]

why would Holden get more than 6-7 money when that is what he has been?

If he wants top 4 money then trade him sure

I think he's more of a 4-5 guy to be honest. He's pretty much has averaged 18-19 mins a night for a while, one season in Vegas where they had cap issues aside

 

[Do Make Say Think]

we aren't running with all of Sanderson JBD and Thomson next season I hope

thats going to be a disaster

Agreed but we probably need to give some term to Holden if he signs here.

We also have to retain Zub and he's gonna get a big raise.

 

[aragorn]

we aren't running with all of Sanderson JBD and Thomson next season I hope

thats going to be a disaster

I think Sanderson is almost a guarantee to be on the team next season, if & when he leaves school. If he does & most think he will, it's likely we'll see him by the end of the season to see how he fits in & where he is at with his development. Between JBD & Thomson I think one of them makes the team & it could be Thomson since he seems the closest but IMO JBD will be breathing down his neck & should also get some games at some point. Chabot & Zub are mainstays & Zaitsev (2 yrs left) & MDZ (1 yr left) could also be in Ottawa to start next yr, if they are not moved. And they still have Brannstrom who a lot of people think is already NHL ready.

Mete is an RFA & Heatherington a UFA & I have no idea if either gets re-signed for depth. They could sign a UFA during the summer or re-sign Holden, but I'm not sure that will happen although it could. There are a few ways this could go including bringing in someone new but they have a few young guys who could be ready. .

 

[TheDebater]

Sounds like your issue is term

Well that and it depends on how Sanderson looks and you know that I am pretty high on Brannstrom too. I would just hate to sign a guy to an extension if he is going to lose his spot starting next season.

 

[DrEasy]

We need to hang on to the players we have and who contribute to our team. Holden has been good, he's here, there's a lot more certainty he'll want to stay as opposed to some hypothetical free agent who, as history tells us, doesn't want to come here or is completely desperate and washed up.

I'm not worried about Holden blocking anyone. And signing Holden doesn't mean we shouldn't still try to get a top 4 D as well. Injuries happen, and so odds are all these players will get full playing time when they're healthy.

If we have too many good players, well then we have assets we can trade to address other weaknesses, but we haven't had such a problem in a long time, and I don't foresee it being an issue any time soon.

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - top 4 D
Holden/Brannstrom - Zaitsev/Thomson

 

[armani]

Dorion is costing Melnyk more than $9M in AHL/NHL swaps as Melnyk now also has to pay guys like JBD and Gus NHL salaries (and Murray's and Del Zotto's). Melnyk promises a luxury cruise ship to the fans (FYOUS), provides Dorion money to build a yacht ;-), which Dorion then invests in a leaky paddle boat. Rinse and repeat. Not sustainable financially for Melnyk for much longer. Dorion has a job because Melnyk's can use him as a puppet (figuratively and literally), someone who says yes to everything he says and is cheap enough for Melnyk to not replace him with someone that costs more.

Melnyk cannot be happy with these signings. It's possible he is liquidating his assets (based on all the turnovers with long-term people leaving, non-Melnyk people coming in, mainstream/local media chatters) for an ownership structure change, so he is not going to hire anyone new. Even though he is El Cheapo, Melnyk can see how much money Dorion has drained in wasted contracts.

Even if Melnyk is not entertaining ownership/partnership scenarios, he definitely knows Dorion's cheap salary is far outweighed by Dorion's mistakes that costs the team on ice, in the stands, and in the media/general public perception. He is losing all the revenue that would entail a winning/marketable line-up. In this scenario, I can't see Melnyk keeping Dorion for much longer.


Melnyk's cheap hire
Whom he doesn't fire
Costs him a lot
To run a Canadian Tire fire
Pierre McGuire
A direct Melnyk hire
Likely takes over
Shall Melnyk's remain the sole owner

Happy Friday motherf***ers!

 

[Hale The Villain]

Murray, MDZ, Tierney, White, Zaitsev, Sanford and J.Brown cost a combined 25M this year.

That's about 40% of the team's salary expenditures going to players that in the aggregate have hurt more than they've helped.

Every team has a bad contract or two, but my god is Dorion talented at wasting money.

 

[JackBauer]

Chabot - Zub
Bransstrom - TOP 4 defensemen
Sanderson - Zaitsev
ex Holden

then call up Thompson or JBD when injuries come up which they will

I think we can expect Lassi to start off in Ottawa full time next season, just like Sanderson. (Caveat: We take one of those two European Dmen and they rock our socks off in camp and we have to play them, or JBD does).