Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part VIII

[topshelf15]

From this fan's perspective, would rather that money be spent on competent management, more scouting, basically increase the hockey ops budget. Do the little things that will help players develop, help us find better players, and make us a model organization players would want to come to.

That sounds like money much better spent than throwing away a few million on the Del Zottos, Gudbransons, Josh Browns, and Matt Murrays of the world. In fact, by spending a few million extra per year on hockey ops, I would hope that would reduce or eliminate the dumb signings like those.

Common sense has no place here ...Lol

 

[GCK]

we spent millions of dollars on MDZ, Murray, White and Tierney on the roster

Melnyk is cheap for sure but he has been willing to spend . This is on management

Replace Murray with another FA or traded for goalie and we are still looking at 5M likely. MDZ could be replaced with a replace t at half the price. Tierney and White make 9M combined so definitely could have saved 3-4M if they were properly paid. Still only comes to 5-6M which doesn’t pay for Eichel. Never mind the massive cost we would have needed to pay to get Eichel in division.

 

[Micklebot]

Replace Murray with another FA or traded for goalie and we are still looking at 5M likely. MDZ could be replaced with a replace t at half the price. Tierney and White make 9M combined so definitely could have saved 3-4M if they were properly paid. Still only comes to 5-6M which doesn’t pay for Eichel. Never mind the massive cost we would have needed to pay to get Eichel in division.

I think we were trending towards running with Nilsson and Hogberg and letting things play out with Gus, Daccord, Sogaard, and Mando until it became clear Nilsson was never getting healthy.

Imo we panicked a bit and tried to fast track things with a potential starter. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight we got it wrong with Murray, but we're probably right about not being comfortable with Hogberg and a mystery goalie once it was clear Nilsson was done.

 

[Beech]

I think we were trending towards running with Nilsson and Hogberg and letting things play out with Gus, Daccord, Sogaard, and Mando until it became clear Nilsson was never getting healthy.

Imo we panicked a bit and tried to fast track things with a potential starter. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight we got it wrong with Murray, but we're probably right about not being comfortable with Hogberg and a mystery goalie once it was clear Nilsson was done.

Tuesday Morning's TSN1200 TGOR (or whatever they call it), had Simpson go off pretty good on Murray. But the part that stood out was, he took a pretty good dig at him for his work the previous two years in Pittsburg. Now, that had me thinking. How is that surfacing? What prompted Simmer? Maybe information leaking out about Murray's last two season in Pittsburg?

Which begs the question, how did the Sens not know that? How did the Sens not investigate this so hard? His failure was not a "hey, these things can happen, you never know". No, his failure was almost guaranteed.

MDZ...google, Lisa Ann and MDZ...and again, Simmer on air, sometime in August. He called his friends with Columbus. "His line, you know MDZ is a 3rd pair D, right?"...

Zietsev..his one season in TO after the big contract!!! A TO reporter was on TSN1200 with one of the hosts. "if you are looking for a get the puck off the glass guy, he is it". At $4.5 million, we get another 3rd pair D man. So, if a TO reporter can say this on the air in Ottawa, where the F were the Sens scouts and management? Out goes The Cecci and his expiring contract, in comes Niki and his 5 years. The Cecci's contract today is for 2.25 million. Similar player, half the cost.

Has anyone walked through the doors (less Norris) the last 5 years that has either played well here, or played well after leaving here? Just once, it would be nice to see a guy play well (and I mean relative to expectations) or play well after leaving (this way we can say, the Sens are this bad).

The team seems to be reaching for the bottom of the barrel. Character, fuel left in the tank, and so on. This is now such a poor reflection on this team's front office, it has become a joke. Yet the pro scout side is untouched. There are times when I start wondering if it is being done on purpose. If I am The Euge, I would fire everyone, because I would start to wonder if they are doing it on purpose! And if they are not doing it on purpose, this is incompetence.

 

[Silencio]

Has anyone walked through the doors (less Norris) the last 5 years that has either played well here, or played well after leaving here? Just once, it would be nice to see a guy play well (and I mean relative to expectations) or play well after leaving (this way we can say, the Sens are this bad).

Duclair.

 

[Silencio]

It's kind of sad/funny that in Matt Murray's first "terrible" season in Pittsburgh he put up numbers that we'd probably all be thrilled to see here (.919 save pct, 2.69 GAA, 29-14-6 record).

 

[SPF6ty9]

Tuesday Morning's TSN1200 TGOR (or whatever they call it), had Simpson go off pretty good on Murray. But the part that stood out was, he took a pretty good dig at him for his work the previous two years in Pittsburg. Now, that had me thinking. How is that surfacing? What prompted Simmer? Maybe information leaking out about Murray's last two season in Pittsburg?

Which begs the question, how did the Sens not know that? How did the Sens not investigate this so hard? His failure was not a "hey, these things can happen, you never know". No, his failure was almost guaranteed.

MDZ...google, Lisa Ann and MDZ...and again, Simmer on air, sometime in August. He called his friends with Columbus. "His line, you know MDZ is a 3rd pair D, right?"...

Zietsev..his one season in TO after the big contract!!! A TO reporter was on TSN1200 with one of the hosts. "if you are looking for a get the puck off the glass guy, he is it". At $4.5 million, we get another 3rd pair D man. So, if a TO reporter can say this on the air in Ottawa, where the F were the Sens scouts and management? Out goes The Cecci and his expiring contract, in comes Niki and his 5 years. The Cecci's contract today is for 2.25 million. Similar player, half the cost.

Has anyone walked through the doors (less Norris) the last 5 years that has either played well here, or played well after leaving here? Just once, it would be nice to see a guy play well (and I mean relative to expectations) or play well after leaving (this way we can say, the Sens are this bad).

The team seems to be reaching for the bottom of the barrel. Character, fuel left in the tank, and so on. This is now such a poor reflection on this team's front office, it has become a joke. Yet the pro scout side is untouched. There are times when I start wondering if it is being done on purpose. If I am The Euge, I would fire everyone, because I would start to wonder if they are doing it on purpose! And if they are not doing it on purpose, this is incompetence.

No question, the Sens due diligence is awful and next to non-existent (Stepan is a pretty clear example). It's possible the front office is the least connected in all of the league. Maybe Pierre has no one to call to vet these things. Hopefully someone got him that Dale Carnegie book for Christmas and we can let him lose at the next GMs meeting to work the room and build up that rolodex.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[topshelf15]

View attachment 496033

It will look like a senior softball game....So many slow lobbed softballs

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Best dorion interview he’s ever done.
Andrei Kuzmenko confirmed target

 

[StoicSensFan]

It will look like a senior softball game....So many slow lobbed softballs

Best dorion interview he’s ever done.
Andrei Kuzmenko confirmed target

The duality of Sens fandom

 

[HSF]

Best dorion interview he’s ever done.
Andrei Kuzmenko confirmed target

he still doesnt have a plan for Murray which I find odd

other than that it was good.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The duality of Sens fandom

Well it absolutely was softball questions lol. But dorion seemed relaxed. He had his talking points and stuck to them

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Well it absolutely was softball questions lol. But dorion seemed relaxed. He had his talking points and stuck to them

Scripted maybe? I would not doubt it. It came across like it could have been. Come on the station Pierre. We want to discuss these specific things . Pierre may have even offered ask me about Kuzmenko.. where he replied smoothly about them looking at his texts .

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Scripted maybe? I would not doubt it. It came across like it could have been. Come on the station Pierre. We want to discuss these specific things . Pierre may have even offered ask me about Kuzmenko.. where he replied smoothly about them looking at his texts .

Totally possible. I am glad Pierre didn’t give some cliche answer on that tho. I like that he just said yeah we’re interested.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Totally possible. I am glad Pierre didn’t give some cliche answer on that tho. I like that he just said yeah we’re interested.

The training has improved him. Next a style makeover?

 

[Beech]

Scripted maybe? I would not doubt it. It came across like it could have been. Come on the station Pierre. We want to discuss these specific things . Pierre may have even offered ask me about Kuzmenko.. where he replied smoothly about them looking at his texts .

Totally possible. I am glad Pierre didn’t give some cliche answer on that tho. I like that he just said yeah we’re interested.

Normal practice. Many if not all interviews are scripted. Few Managers would be stupid enough to come on air without prep.

People who complain about Dave Poulin or Mike Johnson. They come on 10-20 before their slot and run through the talking points. Poulin and Johnson would be so much worse if unscripted.

Dorion most likely got a list of questions either a few hours earlier or a day or so earlier. Again, standard practice. It is why they hate press conferences, they cannot pre-prepare. And all hell breaks loose when they get surprised by a question.

in Media, everything is scripted. You have heard them say the "green room".

I once saw a show script for Mendes' show. It was detailed and very methodical. There is far less ad-libbing than you think...Which is more disappointing when you consider how bad some of these shows come off..

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Normal practice. Many if not all interviews are scripted. Few Managers would be stupid enough to come on air without prep.

People who complain about Dave Poulin or Mike Johnson. They come on 10-20 before their slot and run through the talking points. Poulin and Johnson would be so much worse if unscripted.

Dorion most likely got a list of questions either a few hours earlier or a day or so earlier. Again, standard practice. It is why they hate press conferences, they cannot pre-prepare. And all hell breaks loose when they get surprised by a question.

in Media, everything is scripted. You have heard them say the "green room".

I once saw a show script for Mendes' show. It was detailed and very methodical. There is far less ad-libbing than you think...Which is more disappointing when you consider how bad some of these shows come off..

You conflate two things: preparation and scripting. Yes, of course there's a lot of preparation that goes into talking for four hours at a time... more so among those who are good at the job. It's an art form to take hours of prep work and make it seem relatively effortless.

There's preparation on the interviewer's side to have thoughtful, well-researched questions to ask. There's preparation on the interviewee's part to know the subject being discussed and the official stance/policy of the group being represented.

But scripted interviews? No reporter worth their salt would ever agree to that. It probably happens more than I'd like that a friendly interviewer will send the subject their question list, a process which I think is shady and contra to good journalism. But "normal practice"? I've worked both sides of the microphone and I can say that's categorically untrue.

 

[Beech]

You conflate two things: preparation and scripting. Yes, of course there's a lot of preparation that goes into talking for four hours at a time... more so among those who are good at the job. It's an art form to take hours of prep work and make it seem relatively effortless.

There's preparation on the interviewer's side to have thoughtful, well-researched questions to ask. There's preparation on the interviewee's part to know the subject being discussed and the official stance/policy of the group being represented.

But scripted interviews? No reporter worth their salt would ever agree to that. It probably happens more than I'd like that a friendly interviewer will send the subject their question list, a process which I think is shady and contra to good journalism. But "normal practice"? I've worked both sides of the microphone and I can say that's categorically untrue.

Salt..Really. You mean TSN1200 does not have rights to broadcast. Or TSN (Bell media) does not own the Leafs. Or TSN (Bell has regional rights in most Canadian market. Do you really see them as separate?

Okay, Donno is who? Shane Donavan. The Sens coach. Best friends with Lloydie. So Lloydie who by the way, once worked for the Sens, was going to torpedo Donno's boss. AHHH

Or maybe Eugene hits Lloydie with "Bush league" or 'I will bury you". Lloydie, JR, The head of Bell media in Ottawa, The head of Bell media in Canada will allow another incident between local media and the Sens. UHHHH

And Dorion is this stupid? He will come on to possibly be torpedoed. You don't think that this is well controlled by the Sens? And do you not think Dorion would demand a list of questions? with the right to edit or delete? And do you not think a threat of; you will never have me on again if you go off script, was made?

Yes, in instances when you have the luxury of hard ball politics with interviewees, you would go un rehearsed. But that is not applicable here and not applicable in other areas. I have written in the past, Edward R. Murrow has been dead for 60 years. And read up on him. In many of his battles with McCarthy, he sent McCarthy a list of questions. The battle was over false answers, not torpedoing. Even he, knew not to.

Sure, a guest comes on with no "issues", yea off the cuff. You prepare and ask questions. If a delicate subject pops up, you render judgement on worthiness...THIS, with Ottawa's nuclear bomb in Dorion and the Sens!!

Don't get your shorts in a knot Dzingle. Morality is not part of real life. It is in fiction. Journalists exist in the real word and not Neverland. They do their job all the while realizing they have a a job to protect. Wally forgot that, as did Ian. I don't judge it, I would be worse. I am explaining. You guys in media are worse than the wwe and "wrestling is fake". Nothing gets your back up quicker. I ain't judging you dude ,nor your profession. But please stop telling me wrestling is real.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Salt..Really. You mean TSN1200 does not have rights to broadcast. Or TSN (Bell media) does not own the Leafs. Or TSN (Bell has regional rights in most Canadian market. Do you really see them as separate?

Okay, Donno is who? Shane Donavan. The Sens coach. Best friends with Lloydie. So Lloydie who by the way, once worked for the Sens, was going to torpedo Donno's boss. AHHH

Or maybe Eugene hits Lloydie with "Bush league" or 'I will bury you". Lloydie, JR, The head of Bell media in Ottawa, The head of Bell media in Canada will allow another incident between local media and the Sens. UHHHH

And Dorion is this stupid? He will come on to possibly be torpedoed. You don't think that this is well controlled by the Sens? And do you not think Dorion would demand a list of questions? with the right to edit or delete? And do you not think a threat of; you will never have me on again if you go off script, was made?

Yes, in instances when you have the luxury of hard ball politics with interviewees, you would go un rehearsed. But that is not applicable here and not applicable in other areas. I have written in the past, Edward R. Murrow has been dead for 60 years. And read up on him. In many of his battles with McCarthy, he sent McCarthy a list of questions. The battle was over false answers, not torpedoing. Even he, knew not to.

Sure, a guest comes on with no "issues", yea off the cuff. You prepare and ask questions. If a delicate subject pops up, you render judgement on worthiness...THIS, with Ottawa's nuclear bomb in Dorion and the Sens!!

Don't get your shorts in a knot Dzingle. Morality is not part of real life. It is in fiction. Journalists exist in the real word and not Neverland. They do their job all the while realizing they have a a job to protect. Wally forgot that, as did Ian. I don't judge it, I would be worse. I am explaining. You guys in media are worse than the wwe and "wrestling is fake". Nothing gets your back up quicker. I ain't judging you dude ,nor your profession. But please stop telling me wrestling is real.

Lol

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

he still doesnt have a plan for Murray which I find odd

other than that it was good.

What can they even do anymore with a guy proving he's just not capable anymore?

Best case he gets it together enough to backup. Worst case he needs to be bought out.

Either way he probably doesn't stay healthy.

 

[HSF]

What can they even do anymore with a guy proving he's just not capable anymore?

Best case he gets it together enough to backup. Worst case he needs to be bought out.

Either way he probably doesn't stay healthy.

i would stick with the original plan and actually put him in games in the AHL and bring up his confidence and run with Gus for a while here

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

i would stick with the original plan and actually put him in games in the AHL and bring up his confidence and run with Gus for a while here

I might agree and I can see them sending him back down, but I think that's a pointless exercise. I think they see what many others can see, in that he's just not capable anymore, and are probably looking at more of a way to turn the page on him going forward.

My bet is on a buyout this summer to just move forward without the distraction and because of his inability to stay in the lineup regardless.

 

[aragorn]

I might agree and I can see them sending him back down, but I think that's a pointless exercise. I think they see what many others can see, in that he's just not capable anymore, and are probably looking at more of a way to turn the page on him going forward.

My bet is on a buyout this summer to just move forward without the distraction and because of his inability to stay in the lineup regardless.

I think so too, but the sign might be if they re-sign Forsberg before the end of this season, then buying out Murray would be next IMO. Unless there is some other goalie out there who they might want to sign, but I doubt it.

 

[Rals]

Remember when they signed Matt Murray?

That's 2 years of embarrassing preventable losing seasons.


I don't know about the rest of it but putting Matt Murray on your team should be a firing offense.