Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[bicboi64]

Forsberg was a great pickup. Condon saved our season in 2016/17 and then flopped. Nilsson was surprisingly good too before getting injured.

Obviously the early extension to Anderson was incredibly shortsighted and I said so at the time. Can't say the same about the Gustavsson/Talbot swap, but that's been a disaster. Murray also proved to be a terrible acquisition.

It says something when the Sens' pro scouting staffs record on goaltending is mixed at best, but still better than their history of acquisitions at forward and on D

I think we're cursed in terms of goaltending. Anderson is our best tender and wins leader, but he was pretty up and down, not the most consistent guy. Hasek got screwed by the Olympics, Lalime cracked under pressure, Emery (rip) played behind an insanely deep team, Gerber lost his game when he came here.

Nashville always develops good goalies, we gotta poach some of their goaltending scouts.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Forsberg was a great pickup. Condon saved our season in 2016/17 and then flopped. Nilsson was surprisingly good too before getting injured.

Obviously the early extension to Anderson was incredibly shortsighted and I said so at the time. Can't say the same about the Gustavsson/Talbot swap, but that's been a disaster. Murray also proved to be a terrible acquisition.

It says something when the Sens' pro scouting staffs record on goaltending is mixed at best, but still better than their history of acquisitions at forward and on D

LOL. I guess its the importance of the position and the so far mostly unsuccessful in the performance department that has me saying its the most concerning. You're right, it hasn't been all bad, and there's been some bad luck with injuries, but the assessments behind the roles, and particularly the contracts given, is what concerns me going forward. We will see. I also wasn't on the right side of all those decisions, like the Talbot/Gus swap I saw the reasoning behind it.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Any defense of Dorion's work has to rely on the flimsiest of arguments that fall apart upon the smallest inspection.

What has he done recently to make up for his awful moves during the rebuild and keep his job?

Dude took what we should have ponied up to re-sign Brown and Paul and gave it and an extra 3M or so to DeBrincat and Joseph, losing us the 7th overall pick in the process. Awful set of moves that were completely unnecessary.

Also dealt away Gustavsson for Talbot, which is one of the worst trades that has been made all year and may be the biggest reason the team didn't make the playoffs this year.

The Chychrun trade was good but you have to have the memory of a goldfish to think it makes up for yet another off-season of short-sighted moves.

Yawn.

Forsberg was a great pickup. Condon saved our season in 2016/17 and then flopped. Nilsson was surprisingly good too before getting injured.

Obviously the early extension to Anderson was incredibly shortsighted and I said so at the time. Can't say the same about the Gustavsson/Talbot swap, but that's been a disaster. Murray also proved to be a terrible acquisition.

It says something when the Sens' pro scouting staffs record on goaltending is mixed at best, but still better than their history of acquisitions at forward and on D

Yawn.

 

[Knave]

What an arcane statistic to present. The Buffalo Sabres haven't made the playoffs in 10 years, what does it matter if they had 1 GM during that time or 3? When Sakic took over Colorado, they had missed the playoffs 3 years in a row and missed 3 out of his first 4 years as GM. He already had Duchene [3OA, 2009], O'Reilly [33OA, 2009], Landeskog [2OA, 2011] and MacKinnon [1OA, 2013] when he took over and then some of his seasons were bad enough that they landed him Makar [4OA, 2017] and Rantanen [10OA, 2015].

So he missed the playoffs 3 out of his first 4 season on a team brimming with young talent. It'd be like the next GM of the Sens missing the playoffs 3 out of their first 4 seasons with the roster we have now. You'd probably call it outrageous.

And these are just a couple of examples from hockey. You said this was virtually "unprecedented in modern sports history", which is an outrageously stupid claim to make.

And none of this makes mention of who Dorion's boss was during the majority of his tenure as GM. A fickle, cheap, micromanaging, narcissistic, sociopathic buffoon who was obsessed with cost-cutting and penny-pinching for every year of Dorion's time as GM, with the exception of this year.

Yes, most GMs get 3-4 years.

Not 7 f***ing years of failure and missing the playoffs for the 6th straight year.

We are not on year 4 here with Joe Sakic, a famous Colorado player who thought he was going to get fired because the fanbase doesn't suffer from f***ing Stockholm Syndrome and wants results.

We are headed into year 8. And year 7 we still missed the playoffs as essentially a cap team.

This is nothing other than failure. This is Doug MacLean. This is Mike Milbury. They also had cap crunched teams with meddling owners. They produced similar results. Nobody looks back at Mike Milbury or Doug MacLean and goes "wow, what they achieved with so little was impressive". They have not achieved anything. And heading into year 8 with Dorion - we have achieved nothing. His biggest achievement is inheriting Bryan Murray's team and Erik Karlsson having a legendary season and playoff run that ended with a game 7 OT loss to the eventual Stanley Cup champs.

 

[Tuna99]

Yes, most GMs get 3-4 years.

Not 7 f***ing years of failure and missing the playoffs for the 6th straight year.

We are not on year 4 here with Joe Sakic, a famous Colorado player who thought he was going to get fired because the fanbase doesn't suffer from f***ing Stockholm Syndrome and wants results.

We are headed into year 8. And year 7 we still missed the playoffs as essentially a cap team.

This is nothing other than failure. This is Doug MacLean. This is Mike Milbury. They also had cap crunched teams with meddling owners. They produced similar results. Nobody looks back at Mike Milbury or Doug MacLean and goes "wow, what they achieved with so little was impressive". They have not achieved anything. And heading into year 8 with Dorion - we have achieved nothing. His biggest achievement is inheriting Bryan Murray's team and Erik Karlsson having a legendary season and playoff run that ended with a game 7 OT loss to the eventual Stanley Cup champs.

Dorion also got a hug and a handshake 7 years ago from the players in the dressing room - pretty big achievement if true

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

I'm neutral on PD. He's had to work with an awful, meddling owner with limited management support. He's made some moves that make me question his pro scouting, but he's got so little help. If new ownership wanted to replace him, I'm fine with that. If they wanted to give him a little longer with an actual management team and some more money for a good coach, I'd kind of prefer it, just to see how he'd do without so much restriction.

I think the meat of the team is set up nicely for the future, solid 5 dmen + a better than average group of top 6 forwards. We need a low cost player that can fit in the top 6 to really spread out the depth into a solid top 9. I hate Bunting, for example, but he's a cheap 50 point getter playing on the top line. Would be nice to identify cheap guys like that.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yes, most GMs get 3-4 years.

Not 7 f***ing years of failure and missing the playoffs for the 6th straight year.

We are not on year 4 here with Joe Sakic, a famous Colorado player who thought he was going to get fired because the fanbase doesn't suffer from f***ing Stockholm Syndrome and wants results.

We are headed into year 8. And year 7 we still missed the playoffs as essentially a cap team.

This is nothing other than failure. This is Doug MacLean. This is Mike Milbury. They also had cap crunched teams with meddling owners. They produced similar results. Nobody looks back at Mike Milbury or Doug MacLean and goes "wow, what they achieved with so little was impressive". They have not achieved anything. And heading into year 8 with Dorion - we have achieved nothing. His biggest achievement is inheriting Bryan Murray's team and Erik Karlsson having a legendary season and playoff run that ended with a game 7 OT loss to the eventual Stanley Cup champs.

It’s like you woke up and looked at nhl.com and know nothing about the Sens.

Either way, try and find a way to cope because he’s likely to be around for another season.

Folks have tried to explain things to you, but you’re all about 7 f***ing years and no context so you’re on your own now.

 

[Knave]

It’s like you woke up and looked at nhl.com and know nothing about the Sens.

Either way, try and find a way to cope because he’s likely to be around for another season.

Folks have tried to explain things to you, but you’re all about 7 f***ing years and no context so you’re on your own now.

There's nothing to be explained by people in complete denial of the facts on the ground.

5 years of missing the playoffs with no improvement
Trade away assets and compile a group of players that will essentially push us into cap trouble in the next 1-2 years.
Still miss the playoff wildcard spot by over 11 points.

No other ownership group in the league accepts this. The only reason it is accepted here is because we had an owner who was sick and died and now his daughters are in the process of selling the team.

He will be around for another year in all likelihood because of this. But that's not a reason to play pretend like we're 6 years old.

 

[Ice-Tray]

There's nothing to be explained by people in complete denial of the facts on the ground.

5 years of missing the playoffs with no improvement
Trade away assets and compile a group of players that will essentially push us into cap trouble in the next 1-2 years.
Still miss the playoff wildcard spot by over 11 points.

No other ownership group in the league accepts this. The only reason it is accepted here is because we had an owner who was sick and died and now his daughters are in the process of selling the team.

He will be around for another year in all likelihood because of this. But that's not a reason to play pretend like we're 6 years old.

Again, you keep shouting numbers without context as though it means something.

Numbers are just numbers without proper interpretation.

Your bewilderment is because you’re not open to understand the context around the numbers.

As for your assessment of the team, I’ll just let time bring you back to your impending plate of crow…

 

[Knave]

Again, you keep shouting numbers without context as though it means something.

Numbers are just numbers without proper interpretation.

Your bewilderment is because you’re not open to understand the context around the numbers.

As for your assessment of the team, I’ll just let time bring you back to your impending plate of crow…

I promise I'll treat you right this time! I swear!

 

[Ice-Tray]

I promise I'll treat you right this time! I swear!

We’ll see

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Some people don't care about winning.

It's more important that we're a team and both sides have fun I guess.

 

[robsenz]

I'm not convinced Dorion is solely the problem here. He made some bad deals here and there but it's really balanced itself out, he's active and has made some higher risk deals which seemed to be the right play at the time. I think everything will change once Alfie brings back the post game bikes.

 

[swiftwin]

There's nothing to be explained by people in complete denial of the facts on the ground.

5 years of missing the playoffs with no improvement
Trade away assets and compile a group of players that will essentially push us into cap trouble in the next 1-2 years.
Still miss the playoff wildcard spot by over 11 points.

No other ownership group in the league accepts this. The only reason it is accepted here is because we had an owner who was sick and died and now his daughters are in the process of selling the team.

He will be around for another year in all likelihood because of this. But that's not a reason to play pretend like we're 6 years old.

You're the one in denial of the fact that we deliberately went through a rebuild. It's not 7 years of failure. It's 7 years of success. Deal with it.

 

[swiftwin]

Some people don't care about winning.

It's more important that we're a team and both sides have fun I guess.

We all care about winning. But, some of us understand the concept of delayed gratification. You know, that thing people usually learn when they're toddlers?

 

[PlayersLtd]

There's nothing to be explained by people in complete denial of the facts on the ground.

5 years of missing the playoffs with no improvement
Trade away assets and compile a group of players that will essentially push us into cap trouble in the next 1-2 years.
Still miss the playoff wildcard spot by over 11 points.

No other ownership group in the league accepts this. The only reason it is accepted here is because we had an owner who was sick and died and now his daughters are in the process of selling the team.

He will be around for another year in all likelihood because of this. But that's not a reason to play pretend like we're 6 years old.

The whole point was to miss the playoffs.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

We all care about winning. But, some of us understand the concept of delayed gratification. You know, that thing people usually learn when they're toddlers?

there is delayed gratification and there is being a cuckold

 

[OttawaSenators11]

He's gone 1,000 % when new owners take over.

 

[SensHulk]

Anyone realize Pierre looks just like Mr. Martini (played by a young Danny devito)?

 

[Tuna99]

We all care about winning. But, some of us understand the concept of delayed gratification. You know, that thing people usually learn when they're toddlers?

How does this make sense? We could of been a playoff team this year?

Why would I wait to have fun next year when I have a finite amount of time on the planet and these players have about a 5 year window together. One year of that wasted without playoff experience. A Wasted not getting any playoff experience - how does this benefit the fans, the players or the team in any way?

You’re acting as if being bad was planned.

 

[JD1]

Any defense of Dorion's work has to rely on the flimsiest of arguments that fall apart upon the smallest inspection.

What has he done recently to make up for his awful moves during the rebuild and keep his job?

Dude took what we should have ponied up to re-sign Brown and Paul and gave it and an extra 3M or so to DeBrincat and Joseph, losing us the 7th overall pick in the process. Awful set of moves that were completely unnecessary.

Also dealt away Gustavsson for Talbot, which is one of the worst trades that has been made all year and may be the biggest reason the team didn't make the playoffs this year.

The Chychrun trade was good but you have to have the memory of a goldfish to think it makes up for yet another off-season of short-sighted moves.

You're the king of hindsight Hale.

A quick check of the Talbot thread and you were good with the Gus Talbot trade at the time

GMs don't get the benefit of looking back over the year, circling the best trade and then saying that's what I should have done. But that's your schtick.

Hale, this is what you said when the Talbot trade went down

I'm a fan of this one

Talbot has been a decent starter the last 3 years

Provides a lot more insurance than Gustavsson in case Forsberg goes the way of Hammond/Condon

It's right there on page 1 of the Talbot thread. 4 posts in.

Care to comment on that?

 

[GCK]

You're the king of hindsight Hale.

A quick check of the Talbot thread and you were good with the Gus Talbot trade at the time

GMs don't get the benefit of looking back over the year, circling the best trade and then saying that's what I should have done. But that's your schtick.

Hale, this is what you said when the Talbot trade went down

I'm a fan of this one

Talbot has been a decent starter the last 3 years

Provides a lot more insurance than Gustavsson in case Forsberg goes the way of Hammond/Condon

It's right there on page 1 of the Talbot thread. 4 posts in.

Care to comment on that?

I have to admit I was good with that trade. Here was my initial thought

“ Love the move. Talbot and Forsberg as 1A/1B. I like Gus’ potential but he wasn’t ready to be a backup on a team trying to make the playoffs and the org has Sogood penciled in as a future 1. Why Dubas didn’t make a move for Talbot instead of Murray who knows.”

Boy was I wrong.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I PD

PD his job!

#PDFOREVER

 

[JD1]

I have to admit I was good with that trade. Here was my initial thought

“ Love the move. Talbot and Forsberg as 1A/1B. I like Gus’ potential but he wasn’t ready to be a backup on a team trying to make the playoffs and the org has Sogood penciled in as a future 1. Why Dubas didn’t make a move for Talbot instead of Murray who knows.”

Boy was I wrong.

Here's the thing...the NHL is a competitive business. Some trades work out, some don't. An NHL GM is always making a trade with another hockey professional who is supported by hockey professionals.

I also liked the idea behind the Gus for Talbot trade. I thought we needed the veteran and I thought it signalled the organization's belief in Sogaard more than Gus.

Kudos to you for owning your belief.

But, believing something is right when it happens then leading the cheers when it fails...well, I just don't believe in that, it's hypocrisy at its finest

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I truly believe that even with Gus, he would not have shown that level of play here.

The structure (JD1 won't like this one) and inconsistency of our play was too difficult for our goaltenders to thrive/find consistency in.

Towards the end of the year, though, when our team D did start to look better, the goaltenders were already shot/started playing poorly/our 3rd string was in net.