Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Tnuoc Alucard]

It’s been six years man…six years

how long was the leaf, or Oiler rebuild?

I set my own goals for this team - they should of been a playoff team or at least had the guts to admit that was their goal.

Then You should be fired

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I’m really hoping the new ownership group bolsters the management and coaching staffs

Melnyk was never willing to commit funds to these areas.

Hoping the new leadership can take this to the next level

with the reported $450 Million debt being carried by the franchise, can you possibly try to understand why he might have ran a lean operation?

heck, half of the reported offers for the franchise, would pay off the debt .

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Nothing against Dorion, I don't wish him ill or anything but he has had 6 full seasons since last making the playoffs. This is the first year of significant movement. And people are making excuses for why we once again missed the playoffs despite being near the cap this time.

did you miss the announcement (about six years ago) that the Senators were going into a full, tear down to the studs, rebuild? The timeline was something along the lines of five years before making a run at the playoffs, and FYOUPS?

did you honest expect the Senators to make the playoffs within the laid out 5 year rebuild plan?


No one should consider not making the playoffs in the previous five season, a failure….

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Really? Calgary is a total mess and Toronto is about to finish 4th in the league.

Is there a banner for that?

No one cares a whole lot where you finish (in the league) during the regular season, as long as you qualify for the playoffs….. and then what have the leafs done in the playoffs recently


Fourth in the league is meaningless if you continually get bounced out of the playoffs in the first round.

 

[Knave]

did you miss the announcement (about six years ago) that the Senators were going into a full, tear down to the studs, rebuild? The timeline was something along the lines of five years before making a run at the playoffs, and FYOUPS?

did you honest expect the Senators to make the playoffs within the laid out 5 year rebuild plan?


No one should consider not making the playoffs in the previous five season, a failure….

Every other executive in the league and every other ownership group does which is why no GM has lasted this long missing the playoffs every year.

 

[Knave]

how long was the leaf, or Oiler rebuild?

And they just sat on the same GMs? Were they stroking their GMs egos as they failed to make the playoffs 6 years in a row?

No.

Tambellini - 5 years, no playoffs. Fired.
MacTavish - 2 years, no playoffs. Fired (rookie GM).
Peter Chiarelli - 4 years, 1 playoff appearance. Fired mid season.

Ferguson Jr - 4 seasons (5 years including lockout), 1 playoff appearance. Fired.
Brian Burke - well regarded GM, 5 seasons, no playoffs. Fired.
Dave Nonis - 2 seasons, 1 playoff appearance. Fired.

Now take a look at our list.

Something is genuinely and seriously wrong with you people. The entire hockey world, the entire world of sports is telling you things work a certain way. And you're on forums arguing the opposite is true.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

How does this make sense? We could of been a playoff team this year?

Why would I wait to have fun next year when I have a finite amount of time on the planet and these players have about a 5 year window together. One year of that wasted without playoff experience. A Wasted not getting any playoff experience - how does this benefit the fans, the players or the team in any way?

You’re acting as if being bad was planned.

being “bad” was planned… how else to you accumulate draft picks, pick high in a few drafts, to rebuild the prospect pool with high percentage prospects to build an NHL roster with a young core like the Senators have today?

Oh and then sign them all to long term contracts?


Is there another way to stockpile high draft picks?

 

[Tuna99]

how long was the leaf, or Oiler rebuild?



Then You should be fired

Isn’t the deal I but a ticket and can cheer or boo however I want.

I feel sorry for fans who are led by Pierre Dorion’s expectations and Projections - you must of been suckered enough to believe in the “elite team 1 goal away from the Stanley Cup finals” last time he set expectations for this team

 

[Tuna99]

being “bad” was planned… how else to you accumulate draft picks, pick high in a few drafts, to rebuild the prospect pool with high percentage prospects to build an NHL roster with a young core like the Senators have today?

Oh and then sign them all to long term contracts?


Is there another way to stockpile high draft picks?

before hearing it from Dorion’s mouth / do you expect them to make the playoffs next year (are you going to make your own expectations you crazy dab you) or are you going to drink the kook-aid of “don’t ever judge our team to be a success because that was never the plan and I only cheer so hard based on how the GM tells me to cheer ” type of leadership and management.

I

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

.

Something is genuinely and seriously wrong with you people. The entire hockey world, the entire world of sports is telling you things work a certain way. And you're on forums arguing the opposite is true.

It seems that you’re alone on this matter, as I don’t see anyone agreeing with you…. but everyone else is “wrong” except you.

It’s like a military parade with you being the only one starting off on your right, while everybody else starts off on their left….. with you being the only “ in step” and everyone else is “out of step”

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

before hearing it from Dorion’s mouth / do you expect them to make the playoffs next year (are you going to make your own expectations you crazy dab you) or are you going to drink the kook-aid of “don’t ever judge our team to be a success because that was never the plan and I only cheer so hard based on how the GM tells me to cheer ” type of leadership and management.

I

no need to lower yourself down to insults.

I suspect most fans listen to what the GM or Coach says at the beginning of each season, and understand there is a lot of spin in what they’re saying in respect to the Team‘s goal for the season. Also most people listen to the various pundits and commentators too.


And then we set out our own expectations for the team once the season starts.


But we’re not surprised and devastated if our expectations fall short, as you seem to be…. You could have been wrong, just as many of the pundits and commentators were.

 

[GCK]

And they just sat on the same GMs? Were they stroking their GMs egos as they failed to make the playoffs 6 years in a row?

No.

Tambellini - 5 years, no playoffs. Fired.
MacTavish - 2 years, no playoffs. Fired (rookie GM).
Peter Chiarelli - 4 years, 1 playoff appearance. Fired mid season.

Ferguson Jr - 4 seasons (5 years including lockout), 1 playoff appearance. Fired.
Brian Burke - well regarded GM, 5 seasons, no playoffs. Fired.
Dave Nonis - 2 seasons, 1 playoff appearance. Fired.

Now take a look at our list.

Something is genuinely and seriously wrong with you people. The entire hockey world, the entire world of sports is telling you things work a certain way. And you're on forums arguing the opposite is true.

Context is required. Melnyk wouldn’t spend to bring in proper support.

 

[Tuna99]

no need to lower yourself down to insults.

I suspect most fans listen to what the GM or Coach says at the beginning of each season, and understand there is a lot of spin in what they’re saying in respect to the Team‘s goal for the season. Also most people listen to the various pundits and commentators too.


And then we set out our own expectations for the team once the season starts.


But we’re not surprised and devastated if our expectations fall short, as you seem to be…. You could have been wrong, just as many of the pundits and commentators were.

Pierre Dorion started by trading Mika Zabinejef and ends it with Talbot.

The draft and development has been great, but how you can get excited by Dorion’s pro evaluations - Zibby, Duchene x 2, Stone trade, Paul trade, Murray trade, all those veterans that sucked, how poorly he handled the expansion draft with Phaneuf - his team collapsed with Duchene and now he’s 6 years out of the playoffs with a rebuilt team that is horrible 5 on 5 and survived off the PP this year and no goalie.

Anyways, I don’t have confidence in Dorion, maybe you do but I can’t loon at his body of work and say I think he can put it all together because he’s never shown em he can do that

 

[Burrowsaurus]

You're the one in denial of the fact that we deliberately went through a rebuild. It's not 7 years of failure. It's 7 years of success. Deal with it.

Well.. that’s a long time lol. We’re like 3rd longest playoff drought in the league.

Pierre Dorion started by trading Mika Zabinejef and ends it with Talbot.

The draft and development has been great, but how you can get excited by Dorion’s pro evaluations - Zibby, Duchene x 2, Stone trade, Paul trade, Murray trade, all those veterans that sucked, how poorly he handled the expansion draft with Phaneuf - his team collapsed with Duchene and now he’s 6 years out of the playoffs with a rebuilt team that is horrible 5 on 5 and survived off the PP this year and no goalie.

Anyways, I don’t have confidence in Dorion, maybe you do but I can’t loon at his body of work and say I think he can put it all together because he’s never shown em he can do that

His biggest mistake was likely keeping DJ this season. Other teams makes not so bueno trades as well.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Not a Dorion fan since forever. Won't be too soon for me whenever he is relieved of this duties,

 

[Golden_Jet]

As far as current GM’s without a contract for next season the two biggest names available are Brad Treliving and Kyle Dubas ( who grew up a Sens fan). I think Treliving is probably the better option of the two.

Hell no to Treliving.

 

[Sens Vader]

with the reported $450 Million debt being carried by the franchise, can you possibly try to understand why he might have ran a lean operation?

heck, half of the reported offers for the franchise, would pay off the debt .

Yes, I can understand.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

As far as current GM’s without a contract for next season the two biggest names available are Brad Treliving and Kyle Dubas ( who grew up a Sens fan). I think Treliving is probably the better option of the two.

I’ll take dubas with this core and this teams drafting and development.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Simmer talks Pierre Starting about 28+ minute mark

Mornings Hour 3

NHL analyst Mike Johnson on the NHL playoffs and Senators season coming to an end, Ottawa 67s playoff hockey and filling in the Senators roster.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Senator Stanley]

Is there a banner for that?

No one cares a whole lot where you finish (in the league) during the regular season, as long as you qualify for the playoffs….. and then what have the leafs done in the playoffs recently


Fourth in the league is meaningless if you continually get bounced out of the playoffs in the first round.

Then let's just set aside Toronto. What on earth makes Treliving a better option? Calgary never did anything in the playoffs with it's good-not-great core, and now is locked in to an expensive, mediocre, aging roster.

 

[Ice-Tray]

And they just sat on the same GMs? Were they stroking their GMs egos as they failed to make the playoffs 6 years in a row?

No.

Tambellini - 5 years, no playoffs. Fired.
MacTavish - 2 years, no playoffs. Fired (rookie GM).
Peter Chiarelli - 4 years, 1 playoff appearance. Fired mid season.

Ferguson Jr - 4 seasons (5 years including lockout), 1 playoff appearance. Fired.
Brian Burke - well regarded GM, 5 seasons, no playoffs. Fired.
Dave Nonis - 2 seasons, 1 playoff appearance. Fired.

Now take a look at our list.

Something is genuinely and seriously wrong with you people. The entire hockey world, the entire world of sports is telling you things work a certain way. And you're on forums arguing the opposite is true.

Yup some kind of conspiracy going on.

That or the context that you continue to ignore.

 

[bicboi64]

I’ll take dubas with this core and this teams drafting and development.

As much as I think Dubas is decent at shoring up things once a core is established, his contract extensions absolutely suck and he'd end up figuring out a way to overpay players that we can't afford.

being “bad” was planned… how else to you accumulate draft picks, pick high in a few drafts, to rebuild the prospect pool with high percentage prospects to build an NHL roster with a young core like the Senators have today?

Oh and then sign them all to long term contracts?


Is there another way to stockpile high draft picks?

I mean we also spent money to be bad. Some of the acquisitions we had cost dollars and actual salary. Those holes could've been plugged by waiver wire pick ups and low cost deals. Some of the picks we acquired when selling off players were used i horrible deals that stemmed from poor player evaluation.

Being bad doesn't have to cost money, which is something Dorion manage to do, despite being employed under Melnyk

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

You're the king of hindsight Hale.

A quick check of the Talbot thread and you were good with the Gus Talbot trade at the time

GMs don't get the benefit of looking back over the year, circling the best trade and then saying that's what I should have done. But that's your schtick.

Hale, this is what you said when the Talbot trade went down

I'm a fan of this one

Talbot has been a decent starter the last 3 years

Provides a lot more insurance than Gustavsson in case Forsberg goes the way of Hammond/Condon

It's right there on page 1 of the Talbot thread. 4 posts in.

Care to comment on that?

I dont understand this petty stuff. Does it take away someones right to say now it was a bad bet? I thought so too at the tjme and Im a dumb shit for thinking it, but its still the GM that wears the results. There's no argument it wasnt a bad deal with how it worked out and Hale isnt the GM. GMs should be judged in hindsight.

 

[swiftwin]

And they just sat on the same GMs? Were they stroking their GMs egos as they failed to make the playoffs 6 years in a row?

No.

Tambellini - 5 years, no playoffs. Fired.
MacTavish - 2 years, no playoffs. Fired (rookie GM).
Peter Chiarelli - 4 years, 1 playoff appearance. Fired mid season.

Ferguson Jr - 4 seasons (5 years including lockout), 1 playoff appearance. Fired.
Brian Burke - well regarded GM, 5 seasons, no playoffs. Fired.
Dave Nonis - 2 seasons, 1 playoff appearance. Fired.

Now take a look at our list.

Something is genuinely and seriously wrong with you people. The entire hockey world, the entire world of sports is telling you things work a certain way. And you're on forums arguing the opposite is true.

Something is genuinely wrong with you. The entire hockey world is abuzz about the Sens and their potential. Giroux chose to come here. Chychrun made his GM take a slightly lesser deal just so he could get sent here (instead of Buffalo).

 

[Hale The Villain]

You're the king of hindsight Hale.

A quick check of the Talbot thread and you were good with the Gus Talbot trade at the time

GMs don't get the benefit of looking back over the year, circling the best trade and then saying that's what I should have done. But that's your schtick.

Hale, this is what you said when the Talbot trade went down

I'm a fan of this one

Talbot has been a decent starter the last 3 years

Provides a lot more insurance than Gustavsson in case Forsberg goes the way of Hammond/Condon

It's right there on page 1 of the Talbot thread. 4 posts in.

Care to comment on that?

I said in this very thread I was wrong about the Gustavsson/Talbot trade, so this isn't the gotcha you think it is.