Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[BloodRedArmy]

Dorion and the Sens at held at gun point by the non attending fans and their billboards.

The city is full of negativity and every new action viewed as negative makes it harder to sell tickets.

This is a market that was 100% convinced trading EK was the end of the world and the stupidest thing Dorion could do.

Ya... Ottawa is the only city like this in the NHL.

 

[Sens Vader]

Dorion is quite literally the worst salesman I’ve ever seen

 

[Silencio]

Allowing for the typical learning curve of a new job, I am confident there are certain posters on this forum who could do at least as well if not better at evaluating, acquiring and retaining pro talent as Dorion.

(I do not consider myself one of those posters, for the record).

 

[Sweatred]

Allowing for the typical learning curve of a new job, I am confident there are certain posters on this forum who could do at least as well if not better at evaluating, acquiring and retaining pro talent as Dorion.

(I do not consider myself one of those posters, for the record).

Really ? Who ? I’m curious what background you think a few posters have that would make them better. Personally, I don’t think many here could scout for a local junior team let alone get picked for their local minor hockey evaluations.

 

[OUT HOUSE]

Really ? Who ? I’m curious what background you think a few posters have that would make them better. Personally, I don’t think many here could scout for a local junior team let alone get picked for their local minor hockey evaluations.

Me, my chel teams are disgusting.

 

[Sweatred]

Me, my chel teams are disgusting.

I think you’re the lead candidate to far…

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Ice-Tray]

Bloated middle management with a confusing set of competing goals all needing to be managed by the head coach…..

Seems like a breeding ground for infighting and an organizational nightmare.

Sounds great as a though cloud with no deeper consideration though….

Having said that, each of those areas already have a specific ‘rep’ (coach, head scout), and there is a front office manager for both NHL, AHL teams, and drafting, along with a player development group already in place. Beyond boots on the ground scouts, do we really need more middle management bodies?

 

[swiftwin]

Dorion is quite literally the worst salesman I’ve ever seen

Good thing he's a general manager, and not a salesman.

 

[Sens Vader]

Good thing he's a general manager, and not a salesman.

How clueless if you don’t understand the role of sales in a managerial position.

Your sole purpose is to sell an internal vision to your employees, sell a brand to your fanbase, sell your assets to other teams, and sell your organization to players you want to keep/attract.

Communication, negotiation, damage control. All sales skills necessary to be successful in the role

 

[OD99]

Really ? Who ? I’m curious what background you think a few posters have that would make them better. Personally, I don’t think many here could scout for a local junior team let alone get picked for their local minor hockey evaluations.

Do you actually believe GMPD is still a scout?

At some point he has to help determine which picks are made but he may get a couple views of a player that a scout is touting after seeing them 20+ times.

Reading people, negotiating, managing salary cap (internal or otherwise), forging relationships with other NHL managers, etc...are some of the more significant aspects of his role. Perhaps he is acting as a scout and that is why he seems so poor at the rest of his job.

 

[Sens Vader]

Do you actually believe GMPD is still a scout?

At some point he has to help determine which picks are made but he may get a couple views of a player that a scout is touting after seeing them 20+ times.

Reading people, negotiating, managing salary cap (internal or otherwise), forging relationships with other NHL managers, etc...are some of the more significant aspects of his role. Perhaps he is acting as a scout and that is why he seems so poor at the rest of his job.

Exactly, people need to separate being a manager from being an employee with a particular role underneath them. Many employees individually contribute more to an organization than a manager, but great managers demonstrate a significant contribution and more importantly maximize the output of those around them.

The need for attributes of a great manager is amplified in any public management role as you are also tasked with managing a brand and fanbase/community.

Dorion is a good scout, but a horrible GM.

Now, can he improve in the elements required to be a good manager? I am sure he has in certain areas 6 years into the job, but still not there for me. A change would be the best outcome IMO, we have drafted well and that's enough for a competent manager to run things from here.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Sweatred]

Exactly, people need to separate being a manager from being an employee with a particular role underneath them. Many employees individually contribute more to an organization than a manager, but great managers demonstrate a significant contribution and more importantly maximize the output of those around them.

The need for attributes of a great manager is amplified in any public management role as you are also tasked with managing a brand and fanbase/community.

Dorion is a good scout, but a horrible GM.

Now, can he improve in the elements required to be a good manager? I am sure he has in certain areas 6 years into the job, but still not there for me. A change would be the best outcome IMO, we have drafted well and that's enough for a competent manager to run things from here.

I don’t think anyone is arguing him to be a good or bad GM … the point is as bad as you think he is … no one here would be better.

This forum has a terrible record on easy hockey decisions … like EK, Pinto, White, Norris, Sanderson, Hamonic, Murray, Dadonov, etc.

I’d hate to see it’s record on hard decisions.

I feel really safe when the masses here don’t like a decision. It’s a great indicator that it’s going to work out okay.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeesh, somebody is auditioning for the role...

 

[Knave]

I don’t think anyone is arguing him to be a good or bad GM … the point is as bad as you think he is … no one here would be better.

This forum has a terrible record on easy hockey decisions … like EK, Pinto, White, Norris, Sanderson, Hamonic, Murray, Dadonov, etc.

I’d hate to see it’s record on hard decisions.

I feel really safe when the masses here don’t like a decision. It’s a great indicator that it’s going to work out okay.

Apparently so does Dorion. Welcome to HF Dorion! Welcome to the club of 'easy hockey decisions but mostly terrible ones'

 

[Sens Vader]

I don’t think anyone is arguing him to be a good or bad GM … the point is as bad as you think he is … no one here would be better.

This forum has a terrible record on easy hockey decisions … like EK, Pinto, White, Norris, Sanderson, Hamonic, Murray, Dadonov, etc.

I’d hate to see it’s record on hard decisions.

I feel really safe when the masses here don’t like a decision. It’s a great indicator that it’s going to work out okay.

The discussion on if we would be better is in another thread, and that’s a fun hypothetical discussion that holds no actual weight so just enjoy it for what it is.

What we can actually discuss in an honest realm is if, at this stage, it would be best to bring in a new GM. In my opinion that is an outstanding yes.

Can he change my mind with some lights out off season moves? For sure, and I’ll just take his pathetic interview skills on the chin.

But his time has come, embarrassment every time he speaks and has made several fire worthy moves. However, he made the team absolutely shit for 5 years and drafted well - bring someone in who can actually play the role of GM, keep the Mann brothers, and I think they can really build off the prospects to make a competitive team

 

[Hale The Villain]

I don’t think anyone is arguing him to be a good or bad GM … the point is as bad as you think he is … no one here would be better.

This forum has a terrible record on easy hockey decisions … like EK, Pinto, White, Norris, Sanderson, Hamonic, Murray, Dadonov, etc.

I’d hate to see it’s record on hard decisions.

I feel really safe when the masses here don’t like a decision. It’s a great indicator that it’s going to work out okay.

Dorion tried to re-sign EK on a huge long-term contract, much like everyone else here.

Lots of people around here didn't like the Murray contract. Personally I liked him as a target but wouldn't have traded for him if we had to pay him 25M/4YRs.

Dadonov signing wouldn't have even happened if Dorion did the smart and obvious thing that everyone around here wanted him to do, which was re-sign Duclair.

 

[aragorn]

Seeing how the NYR rebuild has gone and what Gordon is doing in Montreal now with massive culture changes at all levels of the organization with big names coming on at all levels, Ottawa focused on the firing of PM shows how behind and dysfunctional the team is.

Ottawa releases a tweet about supporting pride month and the fan base thinks it’s showing incredible progress, that’s how far behind Ottawa is. We do 1 tweet correctly and the fanbase rejoices, Montreal hires leaders and big baked at every level of the organization and it’s just another day for a well run team.

And montreal placed last this season, but so far ahead culturally it’s like they are in a different league from Dorion’s team

Really? What has Montreal done over the last number of yrs? They had one lucky cup run which is similar to our lucky cup run that died against the NYR. They were crap before that & were crap last yr. Maybe this new management team revises the team but they have a lot of bloated contracts & aging vets they have to get rid of. Maybe Wright helps them in a few yrs, but they will have cap issues for a while until they get rid of some of those contracts & aging vets, don't you think?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Dorion tried to re-sign EK on a huge long-term contract, much like everyone else here.

Lots of people around here didn't like the Murray contract. Personally I liked him as a target but wouldn't have traded for him if we had to pay him 25M/4YRs.

Dadonov signing wouldn't have even happened if Dorion did the smart and obvious thing that everyone around here wanted him to do, which was re-sign Duclair.

That was part of the sale. It was hype.

No way he was coming back.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

That was part of the sale. It was hype.

No way he was coming back.

Easy to say with the power of hindsight. Not much to back up that viewpoint any more than the alternative.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Seeing how the NYR rebuild has gone and what Gordon is doing in Montreal now with massive culture changes at all levels of the organization with big names coming on at all levels, Ottawa focused on the firing of PM shows how behind and dysfunctional the team is.

Ottawa releases a tweet about supporting pride month and the fan base thinks it’s showing incredible progress, that’s how far behind Ottawa is. We do 1 tweet correctly and the fanbase rejoices, Montreal hires leaders and big baked at every level of the organization and it’s just another day for a well run team.

And montreal placed last this season, but so far ahead culturally it’s like they are in a different league from Dorion’s team

Rangers kept winning the lottery, so bad comparison, and is Gorton not Gordon in Montreal, and Kent Hughes is the GM.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Easy to say with the power of hindsight. Not much to back up that viewpoint any more than the alternative.

This whole thread is about hindsight. Mine is 20/20

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

This whole thread is about hindsight. Mine is 20/20

Yeah, well, mine is 20/5.

 

[Ice-Tray]

How clueless if you don’t understand the role of sales in a managerial position.

Your sole purpose is to sell an internal vision to your employees, sell a brand to your fanbase, sell your assets to other teams, and sell your organization to players you want to keep/attract.

Communication, negotiation, damage control. All sales skills necessary to be successful in the role

Not really.

The sole job is to have a vision for the team’s success, and then hire people and help draft and trade for players, to bring your vision into fruition.

The public side is a bonus, and is immaterial if the vision is successful. Nobody in the NHL cares whether a GM is awesome or awkward in front of the cameras. It’s so comically childish to think that the NHL operates like a middle school class during presentations.

Fans who get hung up on hating these people due to public awkwardness have lost the plot. No one actually cares about what fans think about public appearances. It all comes down to on ice performance for every GM from those who matter, which isn’t internet ‘super fans’ (dorks) like us.

Eventually PD’s time will run out, or his vision will be successful before the clock strikes midnight. The petty superficial fan bullshit about media appearances is just mud for pigs to play in, it has no bearing on the actual job of being a GM.