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German football season 2023/24

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cgf said:
Can you imagine how productive Kai would be for our NT if he had any goals in him? He's already scoring or assisting on a goal every 88 minutes. If Kai had any nose for goal, he could be putting up Füllkrug numbers! :sarcasm:
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Good for him. Maybe he could try to outscore Eddie Nketiah for a start.
 
Wee Baby Seamus said:
For me I don't really care about the national team - I put way more weight on club form than I do on NT form (if I didn't, then Harry Maguire would be a top ten centre back).

I don't rate Havertz because I spent three years watching him be basically useless outside of a three month spell under Tuchel where he was good (not great). I saw him never break a sprint, I saw him static, I saw him lethargic. I don't find him particularly good on the ball, his passing is meh, and his off-the-ball movement - which was HIGHLY HERALDED when he was arriving at Chelsea - was frequently non existent. He was given every opportunity to thrive at Chelsea and didn't. It's unsurprising that he's so far been super mediocre at Arsenal.

Happy that you're happy with his NT performances (I've never been blown away, but you've obvi seen way more of them than me and also watch the Mannschaft more carefully than me), but he really strikes me as a guy who coasted on raw talent and precociousness and never really developed. A shame really, I was so excited when we signed him.
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That's totally fair, and why I don't comment on his club career much or pump him as some great player. Staying in London was the give away to me that his priority is the paycheck rather than reaching the heights he could as a club player...but that hasn't been a problem for him with the NT.

He's very active, using his fantastic physical tools & touch to contribute all over the pitch...with & against the ball...and he produces really well. Wirtz, Musiala, and Sane are more dynamic dribblers, so I don't want him to start over any of them...but I just don't understand the criticism of his NT performances.

I feel like people who watch more of the EPL than I do let their feelings about his club performances influence their assessment of his NT performances. Like this post:

Brunkmeister said:
Good for him. Maybe he could try to outscore Eddie Nketiah for a start.
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:dunno: He does. Nketiah has 0 goals & 0 assists in 17 NT minutes compared to Kai's 13 goals & 14 assists in 2401 NT minutes.
 
cgf said:
That's totally fair, and why I don't comment on his club career much. Staying in London was the give away to me that his priority is the paycheck rather than reaching the heights he could as a club player...but that hasn't been a problem for him with the NT, where I watch him.

He's very active, using his fantastic physical tools & touch to contribute all over the pitch...with & against the ball...and he produces really well. Wirtz, Musiala, and Sane are more dynamic dribblers, so I don't want him to start over any of them...but I just don't understand the criticism of his NT performances.

I feel like people who watch more of the EPL than I do let their feelings about his club performances influence their assessment of his NT performances. Like this post:



:dunno: He does. Nketiah has 0 goals & 0 assists in 17 NT minutes compared to Kai's 13 goals & 14 assists in 2401 NT minutes.
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Pretty uninteresting to talk about games that are played just a couple of times every season. Low sample size. A player should be judged on what he performs during his regular games every week.

With that said i’m impressed about the level of effort he puts in. I don’t see what Wee Baby Seamus saw in him at Chelsea. He works hard as hell everytime he plays. Can’t blame him for that. But he just isn’t the one in offense.
 
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Brunkmeister said:
Pretty uninteresting to talk about games that are played just a couple of times every season. Low sample size. A player should be judged on what he performs during his regular games every week.

With that said i’m impressed about the level of effort he puts in. I don’t see what Wee Baby Seamus saw in him at Chelsea. He works hard as hell everytime he plays. Can’t blame him for that. But he just isn’t the one in offense.
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Happy to hear that for you guys, unfortunately wasn't the case when he played for us :(
 
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Brunkmeister said:
Pretty uninteresting to talk about games that are played just a couple of times every season. Low sample size. A player should be judged on what he performs during his regular games every week.

With that said i’m impressed about the level of effort he puts in. I don’t see what Wee Baby Seamus saw in him at Chelsea. He works hard as hell everytime he plays. Can’t blame him for that. But he just isn’t the one in offense.
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I don't disagree but I also don't care about Kai's rating as a player because I don't see what that matters in discussions about his performances for the NT. I'm not on here saying he is a superstar in London. I only get sucked into defending Havertz' play for the NT, because that's what is relevant to the NT.

And when wearing the German shirt he puts in the effort that he apparently didn't for Chelsea, and he's outproducing guys like Foden, Saka, Sane, Wirtz, and Musiala at the NT level...while doing it against both minnows & top opposition; in friendlies, qualifiers & tourneys.

Doesn't mean he's a better player than any of them, even at the NT level; just like Füllkrug's stupid goal-rate for the NT doesn't mean he's the second coming of Gerd. I only bring it up to say that the two big criticism of Kai's club career...effort and production...haven't been issues in his international career.
 
Wee Baby Seamus said:
For me I don't really care about the national team - I put way more weight on club form than I do on NT form (if I didn't, then Harry Maguire would be a top ten centre back).

I don't rate Havertz because I spent three years watching him be basically useless outside of a three month spell under Tuchel where he was good (not great). I saw him never break a sprint, I saw him static, I saw him lethargic. I don't find him particularly good on the ball, his passing is meh, and his off-the-ball movement - which was HIGHLY HERALDED when he was arriving at Chelsea - was frequently non existent. He was given every opportunity to thrive at Chelsea and didn't. It's unsurprising that he's so far been super mediocre at Arsenal.

Happy that you're happy with his NT performances (I've never been blown away, but you've obvi seen way more of them than me and also watch the Mannschaft more carefully than me), but he really strikes me as a guy who coasted on raw talent and precociousness and never really developed. A shame really, I was so excited when we signed him.
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I never just couldn't understand why it didn't work out better for Havertz at Chelsea. He was great at Leverkusen in a free role behind striker, and seemed to have everything you want from a player at that position.

You still see glimpses of it at German NT, but it just doesn't translate into his club appearances. Maybe he is just one of those people who can't adapt to living outside their home country.

It has kind of cooled me down on Wirtz too, being afraid that he might not adapt too well to playing in England either.

He probably isn't quite as talented and effective as Havertz was in Bundesliga, but if he adapts better, he could certainly have a better career in England.
 
gary69 said:
I never just couldn't understand why it didn't work out better for Havertz at Chelsea. He was great at Leverkusen in a free role behind striker, and seemed to have everything you want from a player at that position.

You still see glimpses of it at German NT, but it just doesn't translate into his club appearances. Maybe he is just one of those people who can't adapt to living outside their home country.

It has kind of cooled me down on Wirtz too, being afraid that he might not adapt too well to playing in England either.

He probably isn't quite as talented and effective as Havertz was in Bundesliga, but if he adapts better, he could certainly have a better career in England.
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Some guys just perform differently for the NT than they do their clubs. MAtS has never been as good for the NT as he was for BMG or Barca, and despite being a rock for BVB, Schlotterbeck can't go a NT game without something going disastrously wrong.

Havertz is just the other side of that coin, he may give no f***s about his club career now that he's got the bag, but for the NT he's still the same old Kai.
 
Gosens, Laïdouni, & Becker deserve better.

Chaïbi & Marmoush have been very lively for SGE whenever I watch them. Wish we had gotten Skhiri instead of Tousart.
 
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2-0 Leverkusen at half time, Grimaldo with a great shot. The fact he isn't Spain's starting left back is a travesty (so much better than Balde and it ain't even close) but I have no expectations from that facha De la Fuente anyway.

Also the Buli gets so much disrespect, I was watching the game on some Romanian channel who stopped the broadcast in the 30th minute to switch to City vs Bournemouth. They don't know Boniface > Haaland yet haha
 
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luiginb said:
Jinxed him haha

3-2 now for Leverkusen after Hoffenheim managed to get back into the game. That DM @cgf likes with a sweet strike of the ball to punish Hradecky for his mistake.
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Yeah that first Hoffenheim goal was all on him. The second was on Xhaka I think. Two careless mistakes.
 
No Süle. wich is good. Overrated player anyway.
Go, Dortmund, go.

So, every team has at least one win now. LOL Leipzig.
 
luiginb said:
Jinxed him haha

3-2 now for Leverkusen after Hoffenheim managed to get back into the game. That DM @cgf likes with a sweet strike of the ball to punish Hradecky for his mistake.
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Martel? He plays for Köln :-/

Oh Stach. I do like him...not as a NT starter like Martel could be...but I'd love him at Union whenever we have to sell Laïdouni.
 
Bayern's loss in the cup was the worst thing that could have happened to Dortmund. They're hungry.

Upamecano with a legendary moment. He tells Schlotterbeck a joke, makes him laugh, that at the corner blows by him and scores haha

That Sane-Kane combo is pure class.
 
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Juve said:
Is Dortmund even trying?
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It's not that they're losing, it's how they're doing it. No pressing, no aggression, no intensity when on the ball.

If the play didn't die every time Musiala is on the ball, Bayern would have blown them out tonight.
 
Juve said:
They should be ashamed of themselves playing at home against their biggest rival.
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