Toggle sidebar

German football season 2023/24

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
cgf said:
You say that like Evilo would dispute that Kimmich starts over Rabiot, were the free-thinker cursed to be French.
Click to expand...
Nah I wouldn't. Havertz wouldn't even be selected but Kimmich would probably start.
Though with Griezmann starting, Tchouameni, Camavinga, Rabiot and Zaire Emery playing time would be tight.

And Rabiot's been fantastic for the NT most games.
His WC was extremely impressive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bringer of Jollity
In the last few years Rabiot has been winning me over while Kimmich has been losing me. The German is still clearly the better player but I'd take Rabiot's defensive skills over Kimmich's.
 
Evilo said:
Nah I wouldn't. Havertz wouldn't even be selected but Kimmich would probably start.
Though with Griezmann starting, Tchouameni, Camavinga, Rabiot and Zaire Emery playing time would be tight.

And Rabiot's been fantastic for the NT most games.
His WC was extremely impressive.
Click to expand...

I figured as much. That all started from me joking about our depth, but if I'm being serious I'm not sure there are many NTs that Kimmich wouldn't start for.


Though I don't see why Kai wouldn't be selected when Thuram gets picked regularly.
 
Evilo said:
Because Thuram plays wing.
And we're many to think he shouldn't be there.
Click to expand...

Thuram playing on the wing is why I picked him as someone whose place Havertz would have taken had he come up through your system. Kai is more versatile than Marcus...playing up front, on the wing, off the striker, and at the 10 for us...he's better in the creative band, and he's been more prolific for the NT.

13 goals & 27 goal contributions in 2401 NT minutes for Kai -- a goal every 185min and a goal or assist every 89 minutes -- versus just 1 goal & 4 goal contributions in 460 NT minutes for Thuram; for a goal contribution every 115 minutes.


But I won't argue with you if you want to say that spot should go to a kid like Tel, Cherki, Doue, Barcola, etc. instead of either Thuram or Havertz, were Kai one of yours.
 
Last edited:
Oh I think Barcola is already better than Thuram. IMO Marcus has no business being on the NT.
But I don't like Kai on the wing at all. He' s way too slow.
 
Havertz slowly becoming the german Neal Maupay at this point. Putting in great effort but just doesn’t have any goals in him. That’s a player who can be very valuable for a team. If he’s cheap.
 
Evilo said:
Oh I think Barcola is already better than Thuram. IMO Marcus has no business being on the NT.
But I don't like Kai on the wing at all. He' s way too slow.
Click to expand...

Again, not arguing against that, just saying that Thuram has been part of your NT and Kai would have been better in Thuram's role.

I am gunna have to dispute the "way too slow" to play on the wing bit, though. IIRC Kai set the BuLi's top speed mark in one of his Leverkusen seasons and had a top 10 top speed in the others. He's much faster than Wirtz, Musiala, or Brandt; all of whom can successfully play on the wing.

...and he's even faster than Werner or Thuram. So if Marcus wasn't too slow, I don't see how Kai could be.
 
Last edited:
  • Wow
Reactions: luiginb
Thuram is faster, and I believe the BuLi speed tests show it.
And nobody would believe Kai is as fast as Thuram with the ball down the wing.
 
Brunkmeister said:
Havertz slowly becoming the german Neal Maupay at this point. Putting in great effort but just doesn’t have any goals in him. That’s a player who can be very valuable for a team. If he’s cheap.
Click to expand...

Can you imagine how productive Kai would be for our NT if he had any goals in him? He's already scoring or assisting on a goal every 88 minutes. If Kai had any nose for goal, he could be putting up Füllkrug numbers! :sarcasm:
 
Can't conceive of a world in which Kai is faster than Timo. I watched a frickin lot of them and there's no doubt that Timo is significantly faster. To be fair though, I'm not sure I ever saw Kai put in more than a light jog so who even knows what his top speed is
 
  • Like
Reactions: gary69
cgf said:
Can you imagine how productive Kai would be for our NT if he had any goals in him? He's already scoring or assisting on a goal every 88 minutes. If Kai had any nose for goal, he could be putting up Füllkrug numbers! :sarcasm:
Click to expand...
That might mean more if 60% of those stats weren't against Turkey, Costa Rica, Romania, North Macedonia, Iceland, Israel, Oman, Armenia, and Latvia. I'd wager Marvin Ducksch and Dennis Geiger would put up pretty solid numbers against that lot if given the same number of minutes as well.
 
Wee Baby Seamus said:
Can't conceive of a world in which Kai is faster than Timo. I watched a frickin lot of them and there's no doubt that Timo is significantly faster. To be fair though, I'm not sure I ever saw Kai put in more than a light jog so who even knows what his top speed is
Click to expand...

All 3 crack 35kmh according to the BuLi #s and I've watched Kai outrun Timo for the NT :dunno:

EDIT:
I was wrong to say Kai was even faster, the first #s I saw for Thuram were around 33kmh, but looking again I saw that Thuram topped 35kmh as well.
Bringer of Jollity said:
That might mean more if 60% of those stats weren't against Turkey, Costa Rica, Romania, North Macedonia, Iceland, Israel, Oman, Armenia, and Latvia. I'd wager Marvin Ducksch and Dennis Geiger would put up pretty solid numbers against that lot if given the same number of minutes as well.
Click to expand...

Argentina, England, France, and Portugal may not be as loaded as we are, but they are still decent teams.
 
Last edited:
cgf said:
All 3 crack 35kmh according to the BuLi #s and I've watched Kai outrun Timo for the NT :dunno:



Argentina, England, France, and Portugal may not be as loaded as we are, but they are still decent teams.
Click to expand...
The Argentina friendly was 4 years ago and that assist against France would have been made by anyone ambulant and capable of hitting a through ball. He did have a great match against England last year though, so I'll give you that one.
 
Bringer of Jollity said:
The Argentina friendly was 4 years ago and that assist against France would have been made by anyone ambulant and capable of hitting a through ball. He did have a great match against England last year though, so I'll give you that one.
Click to expand...

So Kai can't produce against good teams, except when he plays against them & does produce, but even then that only counts if he produces spectacularly?

Glad you're not being unreasonable & moving the goalposts :sarcasm:
 
cgf said:
So Kai can't produce against good teams, except when he plays against them & does produce, but even then that only counts if he produces spectacularly?

Glad you're not being unreasonable & moving the goalposts :sarcasm:
Click to expand...
I'm not shifting anything. I factored those into the initial statement--I don't find the numbers he puts up to be proof of anything since the majority are put up against grossly inferior competition. That's not his fault, it's part and parcel of international football and the Nations League set-up when you are part of a high-level team. I just don't see anything particularly unique or special in his play at the international level outside of some spot games here and there (England and Ukraine being notable exceptions), and feel like just about anyone else in the pool would do the same and put up about the same numbers if given the same role and opportunity. You see differently. That's cool.
 
Bringer of Jollity said:
I'm not shifting anything. I factored those into the initial statement--I don't find the numbers he puts up to be proof of anything since the majority are put up against grossly inferior competition. That's not his fault, it's part and parcel of international football and the Nations League set-up when you are part of a high-level team. I just don't see anything particularly unique or special in his play at the international level outside of some spot games here and there (England and Ukraine being notable exceptions), and feel like just about anyone else in the pool would do the same and put up about the same numbers if given the same role and opportunity. You see differently. That's cool.
Click to expand...

If it was so easy then why don't more players produce as prolifically as Kai for their NTs? Do Saka & Foden not get to play against grossly inferior competition as well? Why is it no big deal for them to produce worse against top opposition than Kai does?

I have no issues with people rating players differently than I do, but folks are irrational with their Kai hate...at least as far as the NT is concerned.
 
For me I don't really care about the national team - I put way more weight on club form than I do on NT form (if I didn't, then Harry Maguire would be a top ten centre back).

I don't rate Havertz because I spent three years watching him be basically useless outside of a three month spell under Tuchel where he was good (not great). I saw him never break a sprint, I saw him static, I saw him lethargic. I don't find him particularly good on the ball, his passing is meh, and his off-the-ball movement - which was HIGHLY HERALDED when he was arriving at Chelsea - was frequently non existent. He was given every opportunity to thrive at Chelsea and didn't. It's unsurprising that he's so far been super mediocre at Arsenal.

Happy that you're happy with his NT performances (I've never been blown away, but you've obvi seen way more of them than me and also watch the Mannschaft more carefully than me), but he really strikes me as a guy who coasted on raw talent and precociousness and never really developed. A shame really, I was so excited when we signed him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cgf and Evilo
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom