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WC: General Talk '14 — Finland (Part II)

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FiLe said:
I suggest you take a long hard gander at the tournament format pre-1990s.

Most of Swedish silver is from that era. No playoffs, no finals - just simple group stage play and the one with most points is the champion.

The Swedish commentators were right. Get new history books.
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Your correct mistook the original question for typical swedish silver medal trolling. Thanks for correcting.
 
Peter25 said:
Congrats to Finland about Bronze. It was a great effort after a disappointing round robin play.

I would also like to mention Jori Lehterä here. He is a special player and clearly the best Finnish player outside the NHL. This guy is a true superstar in the KHL. I have watched him play a lot of KHL games and he can occasionally take over a game there.

Now Lehterä managed to translate his KHL success to international level. He was the best center in this tournament, far above any NHL player.
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Not Bronze, but Silver of course (why can't I edit my posts anymore?)
 
Peter25 said:
Congrats to Finland about Bronze. It was a great effort after a disappointing round robin play.

I would also like to mention Jori Lehterä here. He is a special player and clearly the best Finnish player outside the NHL. This guy is a true superstar in the KHL. I have watched him play a lot of KHL games and he can occasionally take over a game there.

Now Lehterä managed to translate his KHL success to international level. He was the best center in this tournament, far above any NHL player.
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He played wing mostly, but it was an excellent tournament from him. Great passing as usual, impressive one on one play, and very good defensively too. If he could shoot and got a bit faster, he'd be a truly elite player.
 
Good year for us.

World Juniors: Gold
Olympics: Bronze
World Championships: Silver
 
rduck1 said:
He played wing mostly, but it was an excellent tournament from him. Great passing as usual, impressive one on one play, and very good defensively too. If he could shoot and got a bit faster, he'd be a truly elite player.
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Shiftiness is still his biggest weakness but I think he has improved a lot in recent years. I remember how slow he looked when he first came to KHL but now he is actually quite a powerful skater (although not that shifty).

Then again, Lehterä was great playing against NHL competition in this tournament. Lehterä outplayed every Canadian NHL player in the QF. Lehterä outplayed Jagr, Sobotka, Hudler, Hertl and other Czech NHL players in the SF. And today Lehterä was as good as Malkin.

In this tournament Lehterä showed that he can outplay players in opposing teams who are stars in the NHL. He is a world class player already.
 
Peter25 said:
Shiftiness is still his biggest weakness but I think he has improved a lot in recent years. I remember how slow he looked when he first came to KHL but now he is actually quite a powerful skater (although not that shifty).

Then again, Lehterä was great playing against NHL competition in this tournament. Lehterä outplayed every Canadian NHL player in the QF. Lehterä outplayed Jagr, Sobotka, Hudler, Hertl and other Czech NHL players in the SF. And today Lehterä was as good as Malkin.

In this tournament Lehterä showed that he can outplay players in opposing teams who are stars in the NHL. He is a world class player already.
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World class players prove it against World Class Defensemen, he's a very good player, but hold your horses on World Class, he's not in the same league as Malkin, it's one game.
 
Yea weve been waiting for Joris final international breakthrough to happen and it finally did. Happy for the guy.
 
habsrule4eva3089 said:
World class players prove it against World Class Defensemen, he's a good player, but hold your horses on World Class, he's not in the same league as Malkin, it's one game.
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Depends how you define a world class player.

Would Lehterä be a superstar in the NHL? Probably not.

Could Lehterä be a 1st line center in the NHL? Probably yes in a right team.
 
Peter25 said:
Depends how you define a world class player.

Would Lehterä be a superstar in the NHL? Probably not.

Could Lehterä be a 1st line center in the NHL? Probably yes in a right team.
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Agreed, I would say second/third liner on a good team, he can't carry an offense as a first liner, but he would be a good compliment.

If he was on a non playoff team as a first liner, I'd say he would probably be in Cervanka's range in terms of production in the NHL had he stayed, probably get around 50 pts or so.

Would be cool to see a player like him replace Selanne in Anaheim, that'd be fun to see him along Getzlaf and Perry.
 
habsrule4eva3089 said:
Agreed, I would say second/third liner on a good team, he can't carry an offense as a first liner, but he would be a good compliment.

If he was on a non playoff team as a first liner, I'd say he would probably be in Cervanka's range in terms of production in the NHL had he stayed, probably get around 50 pts or so.

Would be cool to see a player like him replace Selanne in Anaheim, that'd be fun to see him along Getzlaf and Perry.
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Lehterä is a superior player to Cervenka in every possible way. I can say this after watching both players to play a lot of KHL games.
 
Peter25 said:
Lehterä is a superior player to Cervenka in every possible way. I can say this after watching both players to play a lot of KHL games.
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Agreed, and his size can also help when protecting the puck more so then Cervenka, but I meant in terms of first year projections if he was on say, the Flames like Cervenka was, I think he'd probably amass around that many, but I find he reminds me of a Carl Soderberg on the Bruins, he could have a similar impact he did. And he's coming off a close to 50 point campaign and great playoffs also. If St. Louis can get this guy that's just going to be another great tool to have.
 
I, like many Canadians, feel a lot of affection for Finland. Nice to see you won the WJR's and shed that "always a bridesmaid" curse. Still think you would have played Canada for Gold in Sochi if your goalie hadn't got sick.
 
Well, it was a good showing from this no-name group, a great overall result. But in the end, skill prevailed. As usual.

It's been the same story in hockey over ages - grit and character can only get you so far. Extremely rare have been those cases when they can lift you over the top.

I'm not trying to say that picking some of those players Erkka snubbed would have made the trick - it would have been a wholly different tournament with them and there's of course no telling if we would even have got as far as we did, be it luck or Rinne or something else.

Still, I can't help going back to the earlier comment that this is not the way to go if you want to see more frequent wins. Yes, winning with grinders is possible as is losing with skill guys, but it's still pretty damn hard to get around to beating the opponent if one has to start by beating the odds.
 
KevyD said:
I, like many Canadians, feel a lot of affection for Finland. Nice to see you won the WJR's and shed that "always a bridesmaid" curse. Still think you would have played Canada for Gold in Sochi if your goalie hadn't got sick.
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You are such a sweety. A true Canadian girl who loves her hockey! amirite... :D
 
KevyD said:
I, like many Canadians, feel a lot of affection for Finland. Nice to see you won the WJR's and shed that "always a bridesmaid" curse. Still think you would have played Canada for Gold in Sochi if your goalie hadn't got sick.
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Sadly, it seems that we cannot completely get rid of it, no matter how hard we try...
 
FiLe said:
Well, it was a good showing from this no-name group, a great overall result. But in the end, skill prevailed. As usual.

It's been the same story in hockey over ages - grit and character can only get you so far. Extremely rare have been those cases when they can lift you over the top.

I'm not trying to say that picking some of those players Erkka snubbed would have made the trick - it would have been a wholly different tournament with them and there's of course no telling if we would even have got as far as we did, be it luck or Rinne or something else.

Still, I can't help going back to the earlier comment that this is not the way to go if you want to see more frequent wins. Yes, winning with grinders is possible as is losing with skill guys, but it's still pretty damn hard to get around to beating the opponent if one has to start by beating the odds.
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I agree with this post. I don't see any reason why we should "only" be the 6th or 7th best team on paper year after year. We have the hockey interest in this country to be a top 4 country in terms of player skill but we are not, for some reason. Grit and tactics are fine, but you need an "Ovechkin" or a "Malkin" to win these games more often. We just have too few NHL level stars, and it's very frustrating because there's no reason why we couldn't have more. Hockey has been our no. 1 sport since at least the early 1990s, but player development has actually been worse during this period than it was when the 70s born players learned to play hockey.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You guys are being too hard on yourselves.
 
Its that near 10 year gap in player development from our middle generation of Mikko Koivu to our Next generation of Granlunds and co. Now we are producing elite level talent if not two every "draft" year but the benefits of those fruits can only be harvested in few years time. The younger generation is more fearless and they talk openly going for the gold rather than fearing of loosing. Future is brighter than ever.
 
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