Value of: Gaudreau for Lindholm?

[Vipers31]

No, I didn't. Try reading.

You worded it ambigously. You said there were many great young d, many of which being objectively better, then listed names. Unclear whether you went on to list the "many great young d" or the "ones objectively better".

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So you're valuing point production over defensive play...that's why you consider Gaudreau a top 3 LW. That explains everything then.

What is wrong with Gaudreau's defensive play? Other than the fact that you have never watched close enough to evaluate it?

 

[Draw Me a McElephant]

There are a ton of great U24 defenders in the league today, many of whom are objectively better than Lindholm.

Faulk
Jones
Ekblad
Rielly
Jones
Klingberg
Hamilton
Parayko
Murray
Gostisbehere
Larsson
Slavvin
Maatta
Klefbom
C Murphy

With Provorov, Hanifin, Werenski etc all on the way.

This is every bit as silly as the guy you just ridiculed for suggesting that Hall, Marchand, Landeskog, and Forsberg are better than Gaudreau.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Ekblad, Jones, Rielly, Faulk, Gostisbehere, Parayko, Klingberg, Larsson, and Murray are all pretty clearly better. His offense just isn't good enough to be an elite top pair defenseman at this point. Adam Larsson scored more ES points playing for the Devils . . .

For the record I think the ducks had the lowest Even strength shooting percentage in the league when lindholm was on the ice so playing the "he played on devils card" isn't very effective.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

What is wrong with Gaudreau's defensive play? Other than the fact that you have never watched close enough to evaluate it?

Its clear you havnt seen too much of lindholm.

 

[Vipers31]

Ekblad, Jones, Rielly, Faulk, Gostisbehere, Parayko, Klingberg, Larsson, and Murray are all pretty clearly better.

I'll (again) give you Faulk, given his extra two years. Klingberg and Ghost are better in one dimension, "pretty clearly" not overall. The other guys don't even really have great claims at any one dimension.

 

[SaintMorose]

Even if this was fair value (and I would say Gaudreau is more valuable) Calgary has 3 top pairing D including Brodie who will be a stud for a long time. Calgary has 2 wingers that you might be able to consider top 6 after Gaudreau were taking long looks at rookies and energy players to play in the 3 open spots for our top 9. And to boot it would cost us 2 protection spots in the Vegas Draft. So there is no possible way to make this work from a Flames perspective.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

Curious who you think is more valuable of those two? I think both are equal...

Josi ≠ 121 points in 123 playoff games

 

[Goose of Reason]

"Many" being the key word. I just listed a bunch of good young D to show that he is not some special case. Many in that list are better than Lindholm, not all.

And I'm not even a flames fan . . .

So your argument is that there are other defensemen in the league? Damn, us Ducks fans never considered that before. Lindholm is trash now that I know other teams have defensemen too.

Even if this was fair value (and I would say Gaudreau is more valuable) Calgary has 3 top pairing D including Brodie who will be a stud for a long time. Calgary has 2 wingers that you might be able to consider top 6 after Gaudreau were taking long looks at rookies and energy players to play in the 3 open spots for our top 9. And to boot it would cost us 2 protection spots in the Vegas Draft. So there is no possible way to make this work from a Flames perspective.

I agree. Flames have Gio and Brodie, both of whom are better than Lindholm right now, it's not like you guys are hurting for defense.

I think Gaudreau has more value than Lindholm as well, for the record. Hampus is also not a top 10 defenseman that's just ridiculous.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

There are a ton of great U24 defenders in the league today, many of whom are objectively better than Lindholm.

Faulk
Jones
Ekblad
Rielly
Jones
Klingberg
Hamilton
Parayko
Murray
Gostisbehere
Larsson
Slavvin
Maatta
Klefbom
C Murphy

With Provorov, Hanifin, Werenski etc all on the way.

Hampus Lindholm is better then all of those.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

What is wrong with Gaudreau's defensive play? Other than the fact that you have never watched close enough to evaluate it?

Its clear you havnt seen too much of lindholm.

neck and neck debate, who will come out on top?

 

[Beninho*]

Yea, because PPG 22 year old wingers are just a dime a dozen. Not at all like Lindholm. Oh wait, there are about a dozen young D that are better than him.



What's so laughable about the suggestion that he is a top 3 LW? Can you name 3 LW'ers in the game today who are better?

Some people are stuck in the past, the only 2 LW that are currently better than Johnny is Jamie Ben and Ovechkin. He's without a doubt a top 3 LW and top 5 winger in my eyes. No team would trade away Gaudreau for lindholm. Would you trade away Kane for Herman... Exactly

 

[Beninho*]

Yea, because PPG 22 year old wingers are just a dime a dozen. Not at all like Lindholm. Oh wait, there are about a dozen young D that are better than him.



What's so laughable about the suggestion that he is a top 3 LW? Can you name 3 LW'ers in the game today who are better?

Some people are stuck in the past, the only 2 LW that are currently better than Johnny is Jamie Ben and Ovechkin. He's without a doubt a top 3 LW and top 5 winger in my eyes. No team would trade away Gaudreau for lindholm. Would you trade away Kane for Hedman... Exactly

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Some people are stuck in the past, the only 2 LW that are currently better than Johnny is Jamie Ben and Ovechkin. He's without a doubt a top 3 LW and top 5 winger in my eyes. No team would trade away Gaudreau for lindholm. Would you trade away Kane for Hedman... Exactly

I know its crazy... would you trade hall for Larsson....




oh

 

[Beninho*]

Yes let's trade a game breaking forward for a player who isn't a top 20 defenseman, Smdh

 

[Beninho*]

A dozen young defensemen better than Lindholm? Really? Ekblad is probably the only one you can make that argument for. Unless you're going to count players who haven't played in the NHL and just go by potential.

Ovi, Benn, Hall, Forsberg, Marchand, Landeskog are all better than Gaudreau, since there's more to being a good player than putting up points and making fancy dekes. Players who can put up points away from their own barn is pretty big thing as well.

Oh my that last paragraph... Please turn off your computer.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Yes let's trade a game breaking forward for a player who isn't a top 20 defenseman, Smdh

Lindholm is easily a top 20 defenseman.

 

[Vipers31]

Would you trade away Kane for Hedman... Exactly

I think that's not a bad comparision, and I also think that question isn't nearly as rhetorical in the real world as you think it might be.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Lindholm is easily a top 20 defenseman.

Eh its close, but IDTS.

As for the rest of this actually very enjoyable thread...

Value wise
Johnny > Lindholm

Kane > Josi
Kane trumps Josi in performance, ticket sales and viewership/interest. A lot of my friends who are die-hard NJD/NYR fans, have no idea how good Josi is, or maybe even who the dude is

 

[dracom]

Oh my that last paragraph... Please turn off your computer.

I'll take the players who might put up 10-15 fewer points, when they can make that up with other important aspects of the game. Screw me right?

 

[Beninho*]

I'll take the players who might put up 10-15 fewer points, when they can make that up with other important aspects of the game. Screw me right?

You don't watch Johnny, he's perfectly fine defensively and was very unlucky on the road. No team in the NHL makes this trade bud, Gaudreau is a star borderlining on superstar. Oh and you think the flames give him away to a team in their division? Let's just put an end to this, it's a big no. Taylor hall plays defense? Marchand isn't 5 years older? And i did laugh at the forsberg comparison, loved watching Gaudreau dominate that Swedish team with all there "great defensive" players

 

[Stuzchuk]

Gio, Brodie, Hamilton.... I think we're good for DMen

Just pay him, it will be a lot simpler

 

[dracom]

You don't watch Johnny, he's perfectly fine defensively and was very unlucky on the road and. No team in the NHL makes this trade bud, Gaudreau is star borderlining on superstar. Oh and you think the flames give him away to a team in their division? Let's just put an end to this, it's a big no

Whatever man. I'm clearly in the minority, so I'm done with this discussion. Keep your future GOAT winger, we'll keep Lindholm.

 

[NyQuil]

I think Gaudreau is at a different level.

 

[Kritty]

Just curious if both franchises can't get both players signed? Is there anyway we can do a swap?

Is it equal value? Franchise forward for franchise Defenseman.

Anaheim is desperate for wing players. And Flames needs a franchise D as well. Hence the Trouba posts in the other threads by flames being interested.

If both clubs can't make a deal with each player being RFA. Would this value work?

This is flawed right from the start. Since when is Lindholm a franchise d? I didn't think 2nd pairing dmen that are solid yet unspectacular were that rare compared to players with the sublime skill of Gaudreau.

And since when do the Flames need a franchise dman? Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton, I think they are doing just fine.