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Post-Game Talk: Game VI Pens loss to Stars: Our Stars can’t dance

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Oettinger is a phenomenal goaltender. Gigantic and eats pucks. Again...we need someone who can get to the crease and make life hell. We are far too perimeter.

Saw Shawn Horcoff leaving the rink. Not sure who he is working for. Isn't on the Stars site. Maybe Dubas has brought him on board? He looks like he works for the Red Wings. He was FLYING out of the building.
 
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ChaosAgent said:
Is there really someone in FSG who knows hockey systems better than Sullivan who is going to sit down with him about that?

They shouldn't have to tell him to change his style. They should just point to the trend line of the results and say "bye, let's try something else. We'll only have to eat his salary for 6 months max."
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I mean who in the previous ownership group knew hockey better than Sully? You could argue Mario, but we all know the rep Mario had with running coaches out of town while he was a player. Warranted or not
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Because I think Sullivan on the hot seat would bring better solutions than most other coaches you could bring in. You just need to pressure him into actually feeling the need to make those changes.

If Sullivan won't make changes, then you fire him. But put him on the hot seat first and see what he can come up with before just defaulting to firing him. IMO the issue here is "Sullivan isn't making changes to his system" more than "Sullivan shouldn't be the coach here".
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This, ALL of this.
 
JTG said:
Oettinger is a phenomenal goaltender. Gigantic and eats pucks. Again...we need someone who can get to the crease and make life hell. We are far too perimeter.

Saw Shawn Horcoff leaving the rink. Not sure who he is working for. Isn't on the Stars site. Maybe Dubas has brought him on board? He looks like he works for the Red Wings. He was FLYING out of the building.
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Sign him for the 4th line - Mike Sullivan
 
Just like people blame Sullivan for the players not doing their jobs, I'd easily throw blame at the owners for giving Sullivan the insane level of job security he has and seemingly buying into the media hype about how he's this amazing coach. I'm not excusing or defending Sullivan's traits, but you don't develop the stubbornness he has without being in an environment that enables it.

The owners and GMs of this team, not just the ones now but the ones since 2016, have completely drank the Kool-Aid for how amazing of a coach Mike Sullivan is. He gets no pushback from the organization because the organization views him like they view Crosby. He needs to be challenged, he needs to be questioned because no coach can ever survive in a league without evolving. But I just don't get the impression that the team does that.

pistolpete11 said:
I dunno, man. If the competitive desire to win isn't enough, then what's pressure going to do? They fire him? So what? he gets paid anyway (unless he gets another job, which he almost surely would). What's the downside for him?

I think it's more likely he just doesn't recognize the issues and/or doesn't know how to address them.
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Maybe he believes that his system is the best way to win though, and he just feels like he's being let down by his players.

I think the issue here is that he fundamentally does not think that there is any chance they fire him, so he'll keep doing what he thinks is best. He doesn't feel any sort of drive to make changes because the people above him keep telling him how amazing he is.
 
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ChaosAgent said:
Is there really someone in FSG who knows hockey systems better than Sullivan who is going to sit down with him about that?

They shouldn't have to tell him to change his style. They should just point to the trend line of the results and say "bye, let's try something else. We'll only have to eat his salary for 6 months max."
Click to expand...

He can also just blame the players, and based on the moves so far under FSG and Dubas, they seem to agree it's a player issue and not a Sullivan issue.
 
Tacitus Kilgore said:
I mean who in the previous ownership group knew hockey better than Sully? You could argue Mario, but we all know the rep Mario had with running coaches out of town while he was a player. Warranted or not
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I think Sully is just a square peg in a round hole at this time. Coaches don't really change their stripes at the drop of a hat, and not in the same organization.

There's no arc in which Sully realizes the error of his ways. He's going to be the same and we either get better or worse. If you want a coach to do different things, hire a different coach.
 
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Gurglesons said:
Lol.

It’s goaltending
fire Hextall.
Sullivan doesn’t have his type of players.

The latest. The assistant coaches are bland..
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@Gurglesons that is why this is so f***ing funny...

The whole summer "everybody" was wrong and this team was awesome. I remember Lars going on his "heater" vs. AHL Fodder but somehow he was going to score 20....

Now it's the Assistants and he needs a little "heat" applied. Jesus.
 
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Tacitus Kilgore said:
He had Tocchet as well. So we need a 3rd coaching staff change? in 9 years?
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I don't think that level of turnover of assistant coaches is all that particularly noteworthy.

But more importantly, I don't think changing the assistant coaches does anything here. The pressure on Sullivan to make changes needs to come from above him, not below him. Unless FSG is explicitly saying "we're bringing in new assistant coaches to make changes to the system, if you won't comply we'll bring in someone new", changing assistant coaches won't matter.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Maybe he believes that his system is the best way to win though, and he just feels like he's being let down by his players.

I think the issue here is that he fundamentally does not think that there is any chance they fire him, so he'll keep doing what he thinks is best. He doesn't feel any sort of drive to make changes because the people above him keep telling him how amazing he is.
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I'll just say, I hope that's not true because that's a shittier coach than I already think he is.

"Only a poor craftsman blames his tools" and all that.
 
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Mike doesn’t even know what his players strengths are. Before the game he was going on about Rust and how he was so good at winning puck battles and was so awesome at retrieving pucks and how great a fit he’d be for PP1. The two times (because we normally carry the puck in) Rust had to go win a board battle to keep possession on the PP, the puck promptly left the zone and they had to go back and regroup.

Sometimes I think he’s really not this dumb and is just making excuses to play favorites. It’s hard to tell with this one.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
I don't think that level of turnover of assistant coaches is all that particularly noteworthy.

But more importantly, I don't think changing the assistant coaches does anything here. The pressure on Sullivan to make changes needs to come from above him, not below him. Unless FSG is explicitly saying "we're bringing in new assistant coaches to make changes to the system, if you won't comply we'll bring in someone new", changing assistant coaches won't matter.
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I think it becomes noteworthy when coaching assistants is used as an excuse for Sully's shit coaching
 
canadianguy77 said:
Mike doesn’t even know what his players strengths are. Before the game he was going on about Rust and how he was so good at winning puck battles and was so awesome at retrieving pucks and how great a fit he’d be for PP1. The two times (because we normally carry the puck in) Rust had to go win a board battle to keep possession on the PP, the puck promptly left the zone and they had to go back and regroup.

Sometimes I think he’s really not this dumb and is just making excuses to play favorites. It’s hard to tell with this one.
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In fairness, Rust scored a goal.
Something no one with a letter on their sweater did. Or Karlsson.
 
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pistolpete11 said:
I'll just say, I hope that's not true because that's a shittier coach than I already think he is.

"Only a poor craftsman blames his tools" and all that.
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I mean the dude has 2 Stanley Cups as a coach. He has accomplished more than a huge majority of coaches in the history of the NHL. It's really not a stretch to believe that he has an ego (or belief in himself if you want to be nice) on that level.

Again, I want to really emphasize that I'm not defending Sullivan here. I'm just making the point that I think his issues are because the organization has treated him like this god instead of just as a coach. The organization has enabled him to develop the bad habits he has today by buying into the hype of how good of a coach he is.

If you keep being told how amazing you are and how amazing of a job you're doing, you're never going to have the incentive to make changes or improvements on what you're doing. Even though they haven't won in the past few years, I fully believe that the people above him are doing that.

I genuinely believe this organization has treated Sullivan better than they've treated Malkin and put Sullivan on a higher level of importance than Malkin. I think they treat Sullivan to be #2 when Crosby is #1.
 
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canadianguy77 said:
Mike doesn’t even know what his players strengths are. Before the game he was going on about Rust and how he was so good at winning puck battles and was so awesome at retrieving pucks and how great a fit he’d be for PP1. The two times (because we normally carry the puck in) Rust had to go win a board battle to keep possession on the PP, the puck promptly left the zone and they had to go back and regroup.

Sometimes I think he’s really not this dumb and is just making excuses to play favorites. It’s hard to tell with this one.
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He’s remembering his players from how they played in 2017…literally everything he says about them he said 100 times over the last six years lol

ZorkEnchanter said:
Luckily there is:

Avalanche
Ottawa
Ducks

There may be a win where people can say we've righted the ship.
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It’s not looking likely lol…
 
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metalan2 said:
I'm in the trading Guentzel and firing Sully train. NUKE GCR once and for all. Make the team better now and in the future. Guentzel doesn't move the needle at all in reality.
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Much prefer we fire the staff and try to right the ship. If things really go bad, then trade Jake for a futures package and try to compete next year.
 
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