Post-Game Talk: Game VI Pens loss to Stars: Our Stars can’t dance

[DesertedPenguin]

How'd that go?

Shit in, shit out.

Firing someone is only part of the process. You have to hire good replacements. Reirden and Vellucci were not it.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

It’s not looking likely lol…

I did say "may" ... our goalie just needs to steal a save or two or five...

 

[DesertedPenguin]

He had Tocchet as well. So we need a 3rd coaching staff change? in 9 years?

Jon Cooper has had a similar level of turnover in Tampa.

 

[canadianguy77]

In fairness, Rust scored a goal.
Something no one with a letter on their sweater did. Or Karlsson.

Basically a tap in.

But he was just getting knocked down in front of the net when they did get something resembling puck possession. Jake too.

Their goalie can see over both of them when he’s crouched down and I saw Rust actually jump out of Oettingers’s way when Sid shot the puck.

It makes very little sense to have both of them on the PP. If you want a net front guy, maybe try the big Z guy, or someone else. Don’t just revert to the players you’ve known the longest and say it’s because of something else.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jon Cooper has had a similar level of turnover in Tampa.

We really going to compare Cooper and Sullivan?

Cooper has been to 4 SCF and 2 additional CF.

Sullivan won two cups and has not had any success since.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not gonna rake Sullivan over coals for not playing this team to its strengths because I genuinely don't think they have any f***ing strengths tbh. And shifting the team to a system where they try and clog up the neural zone in some bend but don't break trapping style sounds absolutely f***ing miserable as a fan.

But like, maybe coach the power play and penalty kill? Maybe change up the defensive structure around the net? Maybe don't be so embarrassingly attached to GCRust?

 

[pistolpete11]

I mean the dude has 2 Stanley Cups as a coach. He has accomplished more than a huge majority of coaches in the history of the NHL. It's really not a stretch to believe that he has an ego (or belief in himself if you want to be nice) on that level.

Again, I want to really emphasize that I'm not defending Sullivan here. I'm just making the point that I think his issues are because the organization has treated him like this god instead of just as a coach. The organization has enabled him to develop the bad habits he has today by buying into the hype of how good of a coach he is.

Oh, he definitely has an ego. I just don't think threatening his job is enough for him to change his ways.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Pens play 20mins

That's all

 

[66-30-33]

At least we aren’t the Oilers and have Campbell in net.

 

[HandshakeLine]

No, I agree. The media and organization have just heaped nothing but absurd positive reinforcement on him since the back to backs. But like, at what point does a person go "Maybe what I'm doing is also incorrect" after endless failures? I mean, a normal person, not Sullivan, whose ego rivals Jagr's.

I think we first need to determine if Sullivan is a small child before passing judgement. It is possible he just simply hasn’t developed basic pattern recognition and object permanence yet.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Pens play 20mins

That's all

That's generous.

I think we first need to determine if Sullivan is a small child before passing judgement. It is possible he just simply hasn’t developed basic pattern recognition and object permanence yet.

Another extension, as a vote of confidence, just to be sure this half decade was an anomaly.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

We really going to compare Cooper and Sullivan?

Cooper has been to 4 SCF and 2 additional CF.

Sullivan won two cups and has not had any success since.

Was referring more to their similar amount of longevity, but you do you.

 

[66-30-33]

I think we first need to determine if Sullivan is a small child before passing judgement. It is possible he just simply hasn’t developed basic pattern recognition and object permanence yet.

Put him in the special class just in case.

 

[Gurglesons]

Was referring more to their similar amount of longevity, but you do you.

I think if Sullivan had the success Cooper did throughout his coaching career he'd be getting a lot more rope.

 

[Andy99]

I'm not gonna rake Sullivan over coals for not playing this team to its strengths because I genuinely don't think they have any f***ing strengths tbh. And shifting the team to a system where they try and clog up the neural zone in some bend but don't break trapping style sounds absolutely f***ing miserable as a fan.

But like, maybe coach the power play and penalty kill? Maybe change up the defensive structure around the net? Maybe don't be so embarrassingly attached to GCRust?

And it’s less miserable watching the team’s play now? theyre Already boring to watch..

 

[ChaosAgent]

Basically a tap in.

But he was just getting knocked down in front of the net when they did get something resembling puck possession. Jake too.

Their goalie can see over both of them when he’s crouched down and I saw Rust actually jump out of Oettingers’s way when Sid shot the puck.

It makes very little sense to have both of them on the PP. If you want a net front guy, maybe try the big Z guy, or someone else. Don’t just revert to the players you’ve known the longest and say it’s because of something else.

I get that, but maybe consider for a moment that Sid is not playing with bad players. And he is playing with players he likes to play with.

26 year old Sid would be at 1.5-1.7 PPG flanked by this version of Guentzel-Rust.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

And it’s less miserable watching the team’s play now? theyre Already boring to watch..

Yes? Watching a team full of old guys and shit defensive players try and emulate teams like the Canes and Isles--who are actually built for those styles and have personnel capable of executing them--sounds absolutely wretched, and I'll never understand people who actively want that to be this team. Like, we all talk shit about how awful it is to watch games involving the Isles and Canes, and people want this team to try and copy their method with a roster wholly incapable of event protecting a 1 goal lead?

Wins and losses don't matter that much to me to want to watch this team embarrassingly try and eek out wins by playing a trap, with guys who are objectively awful defensively and a goalie as volatile as Jarry being the last line of defense.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yes? Watching a team full of old guys and shit defensive players try and emulate teams like the Canes and Isles--who are actually built for those styles and have personnel capable of executing them--sounds absolutely wretched, and I'll never understand people who actively want that to be this team. Like, we all talk shit about how awful it is to watch games involving the Isles and Canes, and people want this team to try and copy their method with a roster wholly incapable of event protecting a 1 goal lead?

Wins and losses don't matter that much to me to want to watch this team embarrassingly try and eek out wins by playing a trap, with guys who are objectively awful defensively and a goalie as volatile as Jarry being the last line of defense.

GCR trapping. The thought makes me giggle.
Not to mention Letang and Karlsson

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

GCR trapping. The thought makes me giggle.
Not to mention Letang and Karlsson

Everybody, really. GCRust, Geno, the bottom-6, Karlsson, Letang, Graves, and with Jarry as the guy left to make crucial saves? Yeah, sounds awesome.

 

[Gurglesons]

There’s a difference between trapping and playing a system built on taking advantage of the other team’s mistakes.

The Penguins ran a neutral zone trap in 15-16 and 16-17 for large periods of their playoff runs. Everyone enjoyed that.

 

[metalan2]

Even pressure on Sully to make changes might be something. We've already seen him angry and blast his players, he's never done that before.

I think there has to be internal pressure.

 

[TKalltheTime]

I’m just so happy and glad Todd Reirden is still here. All excellent and very, very cool!

 

[Andy99]

The Flyers are blocking shots like mad and they’re still beating the Knights…a lot positive going on with the Flyers even if it may be unsustainable…zero with the Pens…I’d even take Torts over Sullivan at this point lol

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

There’s a difference between trapping and playing a system built on taking advantage of the other team’s mistakes.

The Penguins ran a neutral zone trap in 15-16 and 16-17 for large periods of their playoff runs. Everyone enjoyed that.

I think it's safe to say things have changed quite a bit since the core was 28/29, the coach used to adapt and actually coach, the team had a still-prime Kessel and Jake that looked/played entirely different than current Jake, and the goalie situation was Murray/MAF as opposed to Jarry.

This team's not good enough defensively to play that style, Jarry's not a goalie to bail them out when the inevitable comical defensive breakdowns happen (as we know), and they sure as shit aren't fast enough for the quick strike counter attack thing.

If anything, the team plays too structured anymore. If they're gonna lose--and they are--just let 'em open up the gates and do some stupid but cool shit. Try and get Sid and Geno a buncha points like the Caps and accept the reality that this team's dug itself a hole it can't get out of after nearly six years of bungling. /shrug

 

[Headshot77]

As much as I'd enjoy Sullivan gone, I think we're riding this rebuild out with him. Even FSG wouldn't pay a coach for 4 years not to coach.