Post-Game Talk: Game VI Pens loss to Stars: Our Stars can’t dance

[BobCole]

The alternative is what? Signing him to a deal that makes the return even worse in two years when Sid says f*** playing for a bottom feeder and hangs 'em up?

The team sucks ass right now. The team's no longer a Cup contender, and imo, hasn't been for years. It makes no sense to re-sign Jake, and letting him walk is an unforced error. So, you trade him and that's that. Rust has a NMC. Rakell's not a guy anybody's gonna care about. Smith just got picked up. Petts is the only blueline who can play any kind of a defensive game. Karlsson's still got his NMC iirc so that coupled with his cap hit means this team's getting shit back. /shrug

Jake's fine. He's a smart player who has chemistry with Sid and Geno. But he's the one valuable asset this team's got to either make a hockey trade to keep up the masquerade that they're contenders, or to try and reduce the pain of the impending rebuild by trying to load up on futures.

-edit- Some other words.

I understand the hesitancy to commit to him long-term this offeason. But I think some of those guys are more moveable than you make them out to be. Rakell, for one, is moveable, IMHO. Smith is, too, regardless of whether he just got here. If we're committing to "the suck," then there's nothing stopping us from trading EK and retaining on him - his NMC isn't terribly restrictive.

Again, the one thing I fully understand is that moving Jake instead of reupping him to a long-term contract makes some sense. But I wonder if they could get away with signing him to a 3/4 year deal?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I understand the hesitancy to commit to him long-term this offeason. But I think some of those guys are more moveable than you make them out to be. Rakell, for one, is moveable, IMHO. Smith is, too, regardless of whether he just got here. If we're committing to "the suck," then there's nothing stopping us from trading EK and retaining on him - his NMC isn't terribly restrictive.

Again, the one thing I fully understand is that moving Jake instead of reupping him to a long-term contract makes some sense. But I wonder if they could get away with signing him to a 3/4 year deal?

I don't think there's any market for Karlsson tbh. Nobody else wanted him this summer aside from the Pens and Canes, and Carolina wasn't seriously interested at all imo. I don't think Smith or Rakell have any value; you're probably looking at shuffling around the deck chairs in the middle-6 and lateral moves.

I dunno. I just don't think there's any reason to keep Jake and re-sign him. Makes zero sense to me, and imo, comes from a standpoint of "Sid might pout" and the fact that people are emotionally attached to him because he's a mid-round pick that developed, in-house, to be a very good player. But he's the one asset they have to either try and keep pretending they're relevant (they're not lol) or to try and lessen the blow of the rebuild that's banging down the door with a SWAT battering ram.

Fwiw, I fully expect him to be re-signed. I'm not under the delusion he's gonna be dealt. I just think it's f***ing dumb and emotionally driven. Also, I don't see any reason for Jake's camp to settle for a 3 or 4 year deal when this might be his final shot at a colossal contract. He's gonna be 30 by his first game of the new deal, and if he falters, gets injured, or declines, accepting a 3 year deal is a great way to cost himself and his family tens of millions of dollars.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The bright side to sucking now is it likely will accelerate the return to playoffs post-rebuild. Management and ownership won't delude themselves for as long before pulling the plug.

 

[Smasher]

Loved the first period, but you kind of knew how it would go when they once again could not convert on their PP or numerous other chances. It's the same stuff we saw last season. They look good for a while, can't finish and then they just roll over and die.

A net-front presence would also be nice.

 

[deakka]

The bright side to sucking now is it likely will accelerate the return to playoffs post-rebuild. Management and ownership won't delude themselves for as long before pulling the plug.

And lose a top 5 pick in the process. We need to be good, or at least decent, this season or next. Don't wanna give up a top 5 pick to SJ for the EK trade

 

[AuroraBorealis]

And lose a top 5 pick in the process. We need to be good, or at least decent, this season or next. Don't wanna give up a top 5 pick to SJ for the EK trade

Don't need to worry about that. The 2024 1st SJ got from us is top 10 protected.

 

[deakka]

Don't need to worry about that. The 2024 1st SJ got from us is top 10 protected.

I know. But if it sides to 2025 it has no protection, and i hated it from the start. Shiuld have nase it top 10 as well othwrwise i would have transformed to a 2nd . And I wouldn't hold my breath we will be better in 2025 .

I'd say cances are pretty good we will look like absolute fools having to give up a top 10 pick in the middle of a rebuild

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

What's the worst that could happen with a Jake trade? Jake lights it up elsewhere? Sid pouts? The team goes from "borderline WC team with near certainty to be golfing after the 1st round" to missing the playoffs entirely? Who cares? This team's been circling the drain for years, their ineptitude for scoring goes from "oh that sucks" to "oh that sucks slightly more". I don't get being petrified into inaction and signing him to a crazy deal that ensures he's immovable once Sid retires and his game plummets because he can't ride Sid's coattails anymore.

Either move him to go for one more homerun swing for the era (not the right choice, imo), or try and build up some futures to avoid spending a dozen years in a rebuild like Detroit--whose blueprint for the end of their era subsequent rebuild the Pens seem weirdly intent on following.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I know. But if it sides to 2025 it has no protection, and i hated it from the start. Shiuld have nase it top 10 as well othwrwise i would have transformed to a 2nd . And I wouldn't hold my breath we will be better in 2025 .

I'd say cances are pretty good we will look like absolute fools having to give up a top 10 pick in the middle of a rebuild

We draft better in the 2nd round than in the 1st, since Staal. Let them have it lol.

 

[Pengu]

The rebuild is going to take a loooooong time as there will basically be no assests to jump start it...

 

[BusinessGoose]

The rebuild is going to take a loooooong time as there will basically be no assests to jump start it...

You can start by getting a draft pick and prospect for guentzel

Lol

Let sid retire, get some more shit from MTL for Letang, see what FLA wants for Geno.

See.. Boom goes the dynamite. Rebuild commence

 

[McGroarty2]

God help us. Four more years of Graves.

5

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't give a f*** about players performances as a poor of argument when the obvious issue is coaching.

Graves doesn't suck. Our coaching staff f***ing sucks. If you lot can't see that, you suck more than Sully does and if that makes you mad then go f*** off too.

 

[K Fleur]

Look good for about 10 minutes then lose by 3. That’s how a lot of games the last 3+ years have gone

 

[eXile3]

Surely Sully can’t survive a 3rd GM right? Right?

 

[wgknestrick]

So, what's a realistic amount of rope for Sullivan? How bad does the record have to get?

 

[Victor Z]

A net-front presence would also be nice.

If the Pens went out of their way to deal for someone like that, what makes anyone think Sully would utilize him properly? It may be the case that nearly anyone can fill that role if they are willing to and the "system" is designed for it.

With the Caps the past few seasons CONOR Freakin' SHEARY was being used in front of the opponent's net -- at least in games against the Penguins -- and somehow he wasn't terrible at it. Now perhaps against teams other than this marshmallow-soft one Sheary wasn't quite so fearsome, but the point is that pretty much *anyone* can provide a little traffic and it doesn't necessarily have to be Patrik Hornqvist 2.0. But it shouldn't be someone made of glass like Jake Guentzel either.

As to the Pens' problems in front of their OWN net, how predictable was it that the one guy who might have been able to help there may have destroyed himself while committing the unpardonable sin of trying to throw a good, clean open-ice hit while wearing a Penguin sweater? If Sully doesn't deter that type of non-wussy play, the refs will.

And if the refs don't, then apparently karma will.

EDIT: If Ludvig's NHL career doesn't turn out to be over just as it was starting, he's likely going to think long and hard before hitting anyone again, which is going to take away the majority of his effectiveness.

 

[Josey Wales]

That makes it all the more sad with your inability to understand this sport. Good luck sir, God bless.

Weird, yet you won't mention any criticism at all towards Sully. And use whataboutisms against the teams stars

They can fire Sullivan Yesterday It doesn't matter to me ! still not going to make the Pens SC Contenders or the stars 25 again

 

[Evergreen]

At what point do they put Letang back on the PP? It's not working with Karlsson.

 

[Icarium]

The Pens can't score dirty goals and excel at allowing dirty goals. The inevitable result of that is the Pens lose a lot of hockey games. At least this time they lost to a legit top goalie but this is going to keep happening. Either try playing in a different way or blow it up.

 

[Dangles78]

Was at the game - first period was about the only enjoyable thing. This team just can't finish.

 

[eXile3]

At what point do they put Letang back on the PP? It's not working with Karlsson.

You don’t. Letang has never been anything more than mediocre on the PP.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

So psyched for Ruhwedel to slot in over POJ now that Ludvig sent himself to the shadow realm

Please just hand me the razors and the Nitrous.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

People who are happy the team playing like shit could lead to a rebuild massively over-estimate the likelyhood of the success of a rebuild.

It is like when Michael Jordan was asked about the Bulls rebuilding in 1998 and he responded "the Cubs have been rebuilding for 40 years".

The idea that a mediocore organization amassing high picks will somehow change the fact that an organization is poorly ran is just not how it works.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

People who are happy the team playing like shit could lead to a rebuild massively over-estimate the likelyhood of the success of a rebuild.

It is like when Michael Jordan was asked about the Bulls rebuilding in 1998 and he responded "the Cubs have been rebuilding for 40 years".

The ides that a mediocore organization amassing high picks will somehow change the fact that an organization is poorly ran is just not how it works.

Not that your point is wrong but this is the wrong franchise and fan base to tell not to tank, rebuild and amass high picks/young talent.