Post-Game Talk: Game VI Pens loss to Stars: Our Stars can’t dance

[Big Friggin Dummy]

As much as I'd enjoy Sullivan gone, I think we're riding this rebuild out with him. Even FSG wouldn't pay a coach for 4 years not to coach.

On one hand, I don't think Sullivan would be out of a job for very long if FSG miraculously decided to fire him. On the other hand, that's a whole lotta money to gamble on a guy not simply wanting to relax with his family or ride some cushy TV gig while getting paid by FSG before hopping back into coaching after his deal was up if he wanted to.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Wow, this game is pretty foul.

 

[Gurglesons]

As much as I'd enjoy Sullivan gone, I think we're riding this rebuild out with him. Even FSG wouldn't pay a coach for 4 years not to coach.

If FSG misses the playoffs this year they are probably looking at 5-10 years of no playoff revenue and low ticket sales.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This is the team Sullivan wants. It's constructed exactly how he wants it to be constructed.

Anyone still defending this clown really needs to understand the flaws of this team are because of Sullivan and won't change until he's fired.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If FSG misses the playoffs this year they are probably looking at 5-10 years of no playoff revenue and low ticket sales.

They bought a franchise already years into a decline, teetering on the precipice of full collapse in the standings because the two franchise icons who were holding it all together were 35 at the time of purchase. What'd they think was gonna happen? "His name says Crosby on the back, why aren't we winning?"

Also, lol to the people who say stuff like "Pittsburgh is a sports town, attendance won't plummet when Sid and Geno retire!" That arena's already lifeless as hell, it's gonna be a ghost town in a couple of years until they start giving tickets away via student rush again.

 

[deakka]

Gonna end up giving up a top 5 pick in the Karlsson trade...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Gonna end up giving up a top 5 pick in the Karlsson trade...

They can move it to next year's 1st if it's a top-10 pick iirc. But that one ain't gonna be better with how locked up this roster and coach is.

 

[Gurglesons]

They bought a franchise already years into a decline, teetering on the precipice of full collapse in the standings because the two franchise icons who were holding it all together were 35 at the time of purchase. What'd they think was gonna happen? "His name says Crosby on the back, why aren't we winning?"

Also, lol to the people who say stuff like "Pittsburgh is a sports town, attendance won't plummet when Sid and Geno retire!" That arena's already lifeless as hell, it's gonna be a ghost town in a couple of years until they start giving tickets away via student rush again.

I'm not sure what they thought was going to happen. But I guarantee they didn't just spend 100 million on player contracts, another 50 on Dubas and probably another 50 on arena modifications and office hires to miss the playoffs by November.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think if Sullivan had the success Cooper did throughout his coaching career he'd be getting a lot more rope.

Even I acknowledge that he's gotten substantial rope as it is. I think it's largely deserved, but I also think in some other markets and with some other GMs it would not have been as long.

If he had Cooper's success, or even if the Cups were more recent rather than the beginning of his career, he'd be coach for life here.

 

[Gurglesons]

Even I acknowledge that he's gotten substantial rope as it is. I think it's largely deserved, but I also think in some other markets and with some other GMs it would not have been as long.

If he had Cooper's success, or even if the Cups were more recent rather than the beginning of his career, he'd be coach for life here.

I feel like at this point you are just trolling me.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not sure what they thought was going to happen. But I guarantee they didn't just spend 100 million on player contracts, another 50 on Dubas and probably another 50 on arena modifications and office hires to miss the playoffs by November.

Nobody misses the playoffs by November. I don't think this team's good, but it doesn't take anything more than a mediocre or bad-but-not-awful team to eek into a playoff spot. Half the league makes it.

Also, nearly everything FSG has done (Sully extension, not immediately firing Hextall) or signed off on (loading up on multiple years and tens of millions for guys like Acciari, Eller, Graves, Jarry, and soon Jake) has seemed real f***in' dumb for an ownership group we were told up and down was emotionally disconnected, calculated, and entirely driven by winning.

 

[Gurglesons]

Nobody misses the playoffs by November. I don't think this team's good, but it doesn't take anything more than a mediocre or bad-but-not-awful team to eek into a playoff spot. Half the league makes it.

Also, nearly everything FSG has done (Sully extension, not immediately firing Hextall) or signed off on (loading up on multiple years and tens of millions for guys like Acciari, Eller, Graves, Jarry, and soon Jake) has seemed real f***in' dumb for an ownership group we were told up and down was emotionally disconnected, calculated, and entirely driven by winning.

Teams that are 4 points out of the playoffs on November 1st historically make the playoffs 15% of the time.

Thanksgiving is pretty much the same.

We currently are the 5th worst team in the league in terms of point percentage.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Half the league makes playoffs, sure

But the pens ain't in that half

I was high on em this summer

But this is for sure the same shit movie we've seen

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Teams that are 4 points out of the playoffs on November 1st historically make the playoffs 15% of the time.

Thanksgiving is pretty much the same.

We currently are the 5th worst team in the league in terms of point percentage.

Cool. I hope they bomb out hard because another 1st round of Sullivan-led, no depth, Jarry (or Ned) in net playoffs sounds much worse then missing by a mile.

Ottawa and Buffalo haven't looked like they're poised to make strides in the standings so far. Philly, Montreal and Columbus are overachieving thus far imo. The Pens will likely be hovering around a WC spot, for better or worse.

Half the league makes playoffs, sure

But the pens ain't in that half

I was high on em this summer

But this is for sure the same shit movie we've seen

I don't know if you're under the impression that I want them to make it or think they're any sort of contender. I'm just saying it doesn't take a good team to eek into the playoffs. I'd rather they faceplanted all season, Jake was dealt, and the entire coaching staff was nuked. /shrug

 

[Gurglesons]

Cool. I hope they bomb out hard because another 1st round of Sullivan-led, no depth, Jarry (or Ned) in net playoffs sounds much worse then missing by a mile.

Ottawa and Buffalo haven't looked like they're poised to make strides in the standings so far. Philly, Montreal and Columbus are overachieving thus far imo. The Pens will likely be hovering around a WC spot, for better or worse.

I don't know if you're under the impression that I want them to make it or think they're any sort of contender. I'm just saying it doesn't take a good team to eek into the playoffs. I'd rather they faceplanted all season, Jake was dealt, and the entire coaching staff was nuked. /shrug

Carolina, Islanders, and Florida are also all out right now.

 

[Zbynek]

Wow, this game is pretty foul.

I liked the part where a d-man threw a hit for the first time in 3 years and immediately hurt himself.

 

[Pancakes]

Carolina, Islanders, and Florida are also all out right now.

Which is why Dubas probably won't hit the panic button and do anything dramatic yet.

But you're 100% right that around Thanksgiving is the cutoff date for being a competitive team or not and the clock is ticking. And we'll probably be 2-5 after Thursday. Don't see us beating the Avs.

Tick tock, Kyle

 

[deakka]

They can move it to next year's 1st if it's a top-10 pick iirc. But that one ain't gonna be better with how locked up this roster and coach is.

the way this team is declinig, chances are pretty good there 2025 pick will be even higher

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Carolina, Islanders, and Florida are also all out right now.

We'd better steal the style of those first two.

I don't think the Canes will miss. I don't think the Isles are good, but I think they're better than this team. I think a Cinderella run last spring made people forget that Florida was pretty dogshit for stretches last year too. /shrug

I don't know. Like I said, I hope you're right and this team just f***ing craters and ends up with a top-5 pick. Losing, and losing badly, breeds change. If this team eeked into the playoffs last season, we might still have Hextall as GM.

If the team's as bad or worse than they've been so far, they fall ass backwards into a top-5 pick, nuke the coaching staff (hopefully), and then pressure's really off after two misses in a row. I'll take that.

-edit- I'm just not convinced the team's not gonna be hanging around a WC spot by the TDL. If for no other reason than because that's the worst possible situation imo, and well, I'm not quite Andy but I'm definitely pessimistic re: this team.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I liked the part where a d-man threw a hit for the first time in 3 years and immediately hurt himself.

Yeah, this team is just shredding all the optimistic predictions we made like 3 months ago.

 

[BobCole]

For the life of me I can't understand understand the idea of trading Guentzel.

First off, we haven't seen Crosby and a linemate look better together in Crosby's ~20 year career. If you think Crosby looks neutered now, how do you think he'll look for the next few years with Rust and [insert any other winger]?

Teams know Guentzel's not a standalone superstar, and between that and the fact that he's a UFA this Summer, it's unlikely that he fetches Grade A prospects or high first round picks.

 

[Gurglesons]

For the life of me I can't understand understand the idea of trading Guentzel.

First off, we haven't seen Crosby and a linemate look better together in Crosby's ~20 year career. If you think Crosby looks neutered now, how do you think he'll look for the next few years with Rust and [insert any other winger]?

Teams know Guentzel's not a standalone superstar, and between that and the fact that he's a UFA this Summer, it's unlikely that he fetches Grade A prospects or high first round picks.

# 1. He is the one player we can actually trade if we do fall out of the playoffs.

# 2. It avoids signing him to a contract that we regret.

# 3. It gives us assets that we can potentially package for a similar winger.

 

[BobCole]

# 1. He is the one player we can actually trade if we do fall out of the playoffs.

# 2. It avoids signing him to a contract that we regret.

# 3. It gives us assets that we can potentially package for a similar winger.

I can see an argument for point #2.

Re point #1: In theory there are other guys we could trade: Rust, Rakell, Smith, Pettersson, heck, even Karlsson. I'm not advocating for trading those guys, but Jake strikes me as the one forward after Sid and Geno who can be relied on to consistently put up 30g+. Trading him away makes our offense even more anemic.

Re point #3: What are you realistically expecting in a trade back for him? Again, all I see from trading him is Crosby potentially experiencing a meaningful drop in production and the team getting substantially worse as a result.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

For the life of me I can't understand understand the idea of trading Guentzel.

First off, we haven't seen Crosby and a linemate look better together in Crosby's ~20 year career. If you think Crosby looks neutered now, how do you think he'll look for the next few years with Rust and [insert any other winger]?

Teams know Guentzel's not a standalone superstar, and between that and the fact that he's a UFA this Summer, it's unlikely that he fetches Grade A prospects or high first round picks.

The alternative is what? Signing him to a deal that makes the return even worse in two years when Sid says f*** playing for a bottom feeder and hangs 'em up?

The team sucks ass right now. The team's no longer a Cup contender, and imo, hasn't been for years. It makes no sense to re-sign Jake, and letting him walk is an unforced error. So, you trade him and that's that. Rust has a NMC. Rakell's not a guy anybody's gonna care about. Smith just got picked up. Petts is the only blueline who can play any kind of a defensive game. Karlsson's still got his NMC iirc so that coupled with his cap hit means this team's getting shit back. /shrug

Jake's fine. He's a smart player who has chemistry with Sid and Geno. But he's the one valuable asset this team's got to either make a hockey trade to keep up the masquerade that they're contenders, or to try and reduce the pain of the impending rebuild by trying to load up on futures.

-edit- Some other words.

 

[Gurglesons]

I can see an argument for point #2.

Re point #1: In theory there are other guys we could trade: Rust, Rakell, Smith, Pettersson, heck, even Karlsson. I'm not advocating for trading those guys, but Jake strikes me as the one forward after Sid and Geno who can be relied on to consistently put up 30g+. Trading him away makes our offense even more anemic.

Re point #3: What are you realistically expecting in a trade back for him? Again, all I see from trading him is Crosby potentially experiencing a meaningful drop in production and the team getting substantially worse as a result.

I don't think any of those players are moveable outside of Smith in season. And he just returned a 3rd.

If we move Jake I'd expect a 1st, a roster player and a prospect. Colorado seems like a fit. 1st, Behrens, and Tatar or something?