Post-Game Talk: Game VI Pens loss to Stars: Our Stars can’t dance

[NeedleInTheHay]

Dubas set this team back with 6 years of graves to go along with 5 years of Jarry.

 

[66-30-33]

The Ferraro twins maybe?

How about we let the players play the game and not worry about things like "getting coached", they have been in the league long enough to know what to do, except Jack Johnson.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Dubas set this team back with 6 years of graves to go along with 5 years of Jarry.

If your team is "set back for 6 years" for paying a middle pair D middle pair money, that just says your team wasn't good to begin with.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

Dubas set this team back with 6 years of graves to go along with 5 years of Jarry.

Blaming the new GM and not the Head Coach who has not done anything in years. Man, I love this board.

Third GM now? They must all suck...

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Dubas set this team back with 6 years of graves to go along with 5 years of Jarry.

Ryan Graves is pretty far down the list of this team's issues right now.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I agree it's over, I just think Geno beyond this game was a bright spot. I also agree that at their respective ages it could all down hill in a hurry.

I still enjoy watching him and am curious if he'll ask out once Dubas begins the dismantling.

 

[Sorry]

This team needs a net mouth presence in the worst way.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Maybe I’m the minority here, but I liked Shea/Ludvig better than POJ/Ruh. Though I’d like to see POJ over Shea as I think he has more upside.

Everything I am seeing points to the coaching, at this point. Sure we may still not be good enough but I don’t think we are THIS bad.

Everybody looks so f-ing lost out there.

 

[Ryder71]

I still enjoy watching him and am curious if he'll ask out once Dubas begins the dismantling.

If we can get some young assets in the process I'm all for it.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think it's more likely that Sullivan makes it to the offseason than getting fired midseason.

But if there is a chance that he does get canned midseason, I do think right around Thanksgiving will be when it happens. Maybe early December at the latest.

And I know it's rare, but I do wonder if Dubas would try a shuffle of the assistants before firing Sullivan. Drop Reirden and Vellucci, keep Hennes, add guys like Daley or Cullen for the rest of the season.

 

[Rave7215]

This is a bit further than the point I'm at right now, but it's hard to argue against any of these.

People are complaining about the 4th line after this game as if Malkin wasn't on the ice for 3 goals against. If the bottom-6 chips in an extra goal or two late in that game, they still lose 4-3 because of those goals against.

Why are you focused and keying in on Malkin Emp? At least he's playing with a pulse. Crosby looks like dogshit out there. His lazy play in the neutral zone lead to third goal with Ned leaving the net and my interest in this team leaving my body. Line one may have scored but they were not looking good tonight other than that last minute in the first.

 

[pistolpete11]

I would not give up on ANY, not ONE, player until we see them under a new coach....


.....OK minus Carter....and Ruhwedel.

 

[mephisto1812]

Ned has been really good every game except that 3rd period.

I've had more confidence in him than Jarry so far.... I don't know, he has a calmness, and seems to be settled. Best case scenario, they both have great years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That criticism was coming from fairly dumb players, though, who had an obvious beef. Like even Kapanen isn't the brightest bulb in the drawer.

Maybe the Pens just had enough smart players for a while that they could overcome that particular issue. Or the high end talent was so skilled that it provided a buffer, but now that they're older, that buffer is gone.

I'd probably agree that Sullivan has this team to be too scripted and that's the primary reason for their offensive struggles. It makes the most sense for why the bottom-6 isn't producing well, they simply do not have the skill to run the type of offensive system/structure Sullivan wants. It's just weird to me because it seems like Sullivan made that change midway through last year, or that it didn't start causing problems until midway through last year.

I definitely buy the idea that the bottom-6's offensive struggles are due to Sullivan forcing the players to run a certain script that they're just not suited to play. And yes, I think "script" is the more appropriate word than "system" there.

It's not to the same level, but it seems like the Penguins almost run set plays when they're on the attack and it's very easy for teams to counter those plays when they recognize them. It's like if a NFL team called one play every single time and the defense knew what they were going to do.

Why are you focused and keying in on Malkin Emp? At least he's playing with a pulse. Crosby looks like dogshit out there. His lazy play in the neutral zone lead to third goal with Ned leaving the net and my interest in this team leaving my body. Line one may have scored but they were not looking good tonight other than that last minute in the first.

Because he was a -3 today? I'm not saying Malkin has been bad this year, he has been excellent. He's been way better than Crosby IMO. But he was still a -3 today.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I would not give up on ANY, not ONE, player until we see them under a new coach....


.....OK minus Carter....and Ruhwedel.

We must trade for Jack Johnson.

But actually I completely agree

 

[mephisto1812]

I mentioned in the game thread that Matt Vensel of the Post Gazette was on Mark Madden's show today. He said he had a conversation with Ryan Graves, just kind of checking in and seeing how Graves was adjusting.

Graves was positive, upbeat but said that the Pens have a lot more structure than he is used to compared to Colorado and New Jersey, and that it has been a big adjustment.

My eyes kind of popped open there. I wasn't expecting that answer.

I'm beginning to wonder if the problem with the system is that it is too rigid and it's forcing some guys to slow down and think rather than simply play.

That's actually an interesting take.... and if proven true, would actually make sense on a few levels. Not for just this year, but for a few years now.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

 

[Andy99]

Lol…”our expected goals were through the roof. So was our xGF and xGA. We were on top our numbers! Moral victory!”

 

[farscape1]

How things are looking so far, next year might be the last for Sid.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's actually an interesting take.... and if proven true, would actually make sense on a few levels. Not for just this year, but for a few years now.

Yeah I agree, I can very easily agree with the theory that Sullivan has this team playing way too scripted of an offensive system that is easy for teams to counter.

That would also explain why their bottom-6 offense went to shit so fast last year out of nowhere. The league figured out Sullivan's offensive script and it became incredibly easy to shut down that system, and the guys in the depth of their lineup just don't have the skill or creativity to deviate from that offensive script.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

Maybe I’m the minority here, but I liked Shea/Ludvig better than POJ/Ruh. Though I’d like to see POJ over Shea as I think he has more upside.

Everything I am seeing points to the coaching, at this point. Sure we may still not be good enough but I don’t think we are THIS bad.

Everybody looks so f-ing lost out there.

I'll disagree but everyone is really bad on this team. I"m sure it's all the goalies fault tho...

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Lol…”our expected goals were through the roof. So was our xGF and xGA. We were on top our numbers! Moral victory!”

He's not wrong, but he's going to need to find a way to turn process into results and on a far more consistent basis.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's very clearly a situation where a coach is just so spitefully stubborn and set in his ways that he will never change, and a case that the roster is also not good enough to be anything more than a borderline WC team that's the ritual 1st round sacrifice.

They can blow it up and nothing would be different. We'd still be watching awful hockey with a team that doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of making a deep run. The best players are too old to carry the water for a Cup run anymore, the supporting cast isn't good enough to make up the difference with depth scoring, the goaltending isn't good enough, and again, the coaching staff is in full mail it in mode.

 

[Rave7215]

I'd probably agree that Sullivan has this team to be too scripted and that's the primary reason for their offensive struggles. It makes the most sense for why the bottom-6 isn't producing well, they simply do not have the skill to run the type of offensive system/structure Sullivan wants. It's just weird to me because it seems like Sullivan made that change midway through last year, or that it didn't start causing problems until midway through last year.

I definitely buy the idea that the bottom-6's offensive struggles are due to Sullivan forcing the players to run a certain script that they're just not suited to play. And yes, I think "script" is the more appropriate word than "system" there.

It's not to the same level, but it seems like the Penguins almost run set plays when they're on the attack and it's very easy for teams to counter those plays when they recognize them. It's like if a NFL team called one play every single time and the defense knew what they were going to do.



Because he was a -3 today? I'm not saying Malkin has been bad this year, he has been excellent. He's been way better than Crosby IMO. But he was still a -3 today.

Alright, I can't really argue that. Sorry, I just got home from another in-game performance. It's going to be a long year for this STH and I am just not ready for it. Watching this team do this live this year and last is starting to make me question life choices. There's still so much hockey left to see too. *sigh*

O and Fire Sullivan

 

[66-30-33]

How things are looking so far, next year might be the last for Sid.

I doubt it, he will retire with his buddy Malkin.