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Post-Game Talk: Game VI Pens loss to Stars: Our Stars can’t dance

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Empoleon8771

Empoleon8771

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Human said:
At what point the bottom six is a Sully/coaching issue and not a players issue? How many f***ing bottom six players you plug around with the same result? How many f***ing changes you bring around before you finally shoot all the coaching stuff into the Sun?
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It is a system/coaching issue, I just don't know what that issue is.

Like I posted above, the Penguins bottom-6 was at minimum decent in the first half of last year. Something happened midway through the year that absolutely tanked it into the atrocious form it has been since then. I just don't have any clue what happened here.
 
Gurglesons

Gurglesons

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last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
MFW tonight…


IMG_0484.png
 
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ChaosAgent

ChaosAgent

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Ryder71 said:
Up until this game Geno was our best player by a wide margin. Maybe other guys need to pick it up a bit?
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He was on the ice for 3 goals tonight. His team scored none of them.

My favorite player, but even the best players at 25-32 are likely to be meh at 37.
We can't credibly say this core is good by the standards of today's game. We have a bunch of same-y guys surrounding them, Tristan Jarry in goal, and oh by the way Letang continues to fall off a cliff.
The core also sucks at the PP, the one element of the game where their lack of foot speed shouldn't hinder them.

My preference is to fire Sully, but if the org is seriously too stubborn to do that I'd still move everything possible at the TDL. It's over.
 
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ZorkEnchanter

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Man...

1. Our goalie really needs to steal a goal or two? Am I doing this right?
2. Our Def Bot 6 is really good at just packing it in and not allowing goals?
3. We got tons of shots... we are unlucky.

HF Pens
 
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Phil68

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I said this before, a big man on line 1 to give Criby space is that is needed. Smith provides Malkin time and space and big as Malkin is Rust cannot do that for Sib. OCCONOR OR Zohorna can do this for line 1. And Sullivan's system is not good for a guy like Karlsson or the current version of Sid and Geno. Which is why, in the last 5 years, guys that leave the pens do better in other teams and systems specifically the younger ones.
 
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DesertedPenguin

DesertedPenguin

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Empoleon8771 said:
It is a system/coaching issue, I just don't know what that issue is.

Like I posted above, the Penguins bottom-6 was at minimum decent in the first half of last year. Something happened midway through the year that absolutely tanked it into the atrocious form it has been since then. I just don't have any clue what happened here.
Click to expand...
I mentioned in the game thread that Matt Vensel of the Post Gazette was on Mark Madden's show today. He said he had a conversation with Ryan Graves, just kind of checking in and seeing how Graves was adjusting.

Graves was positive, upbeat but said that the Pens have a lot more structure than he is used to compared to Colorado and New Jersey, and that it has been a big adjustment.

My eyes kind of popped open there. I wasn't expecting that answer.

I'm beginning to wonder if the problem with the system is that it is too rigid and it's forcing some guys to slow down and think rather than simply play.
 
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AuroraBorealis

AuroraBorealis

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Oct 16, 2018
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Flying Dego said:
I honestly think they'd let him miss the playoff in poor fashion this year. They haven't even got into his extension yet. I just can't see them doing the right thing and eating the bill.
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My national soccer team just fired their coach with 3.5 years left on his deal. It'd be nice to see that kinda accountability here too.
 
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pistolpete11

pistolpete11

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molon labe said:
In fairness to the bottom 6, which is trash-

Smith (5M) and Rakell (5M) make as much as the entire bottom 6 combined. And they have pretty much been nonfactors offensively (called that long ago with Smith). Dubas jumped the gun getting Smith for free. His test will be getting value out of him to bring in the banger we needed in the first place (Kunitz type).

I'd hate to give up on Rakell based on his successes with both Sid and Geno..but man even when he shoots it never feels like the puck is gonna go in. Still, I'd move on from Smith a hell of a lot faster if we're shipping out some of our top 6. Dude should get about another dozen games to show a pulse here.
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Really? Outside of like Malkin, Karlsson, and Rust (don't throw things at me), Smith has been one of the few bright spots to me.

Throwing him away so soon seems to be repeating the same thing they've been doing for the last 5 years.....blaming the players instead of the coach.
 
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Empoleon8771

Empoleon8771

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DesertedPenguin said:
I mentioned in the game thread that Matt Vensel of the Post Gazette was on Mark Madden's show today. He said he had a conversation with Ryan Graves, just kind of checking in and seeing how Graves was adjusting.

Graves was positive, upbeat but said that the Pens have a lot more structure than he is used to compared to Colorado and New Jersey, and that it has been a big adjustment.

My eyes kind of popped open there. I wasn't expecting that answer.

I'm beginning to wonder if the problem with the system is that it is too rigid and it's forcing some guys to slow down and think rather than simply play.
Click to expand...

Yeah that has been a criticism of Sullivan's system for years, that's not anything new. But that doesn't necessarily explain what happened to cause it all to go to shit in January.
 
DesertedPenguin

DesertedPenguin

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AuroraBorealis said:
My national soccer team just fired their coach with 3.5 years left on his deal. It'd be nice to see that kinda accountability here too.
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If/when the time comes, FSG will have no issue swallowing Sullivan's deal.

They've done it multiple times with the Boston Red Sox, as well as with Liverpool prior to getting their current prized manager there.
 
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Empoleon8771

Empoleon8771

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ChaosAgent said:
He was on the ice for 3 goals tonight. His team scored none of them.

My favorite player, but even the best players at 25-32 are likely to be meh at 37.
We can't credibly say this core is good by the standards of today's game. We have a bunch of same-y guys surrounding them, Tristan Jarry in goal, and oh by the way Letang continues to fall off a cliff.
The core also sucks at the PP, the one element of the game where their lack of foot speed shouldn't hinder them.

My preference is to fire Sully, but if the org is seriously too stubborn to do that I'd still move everything possible at the TDL. It's over.
Click to expand...

This is a bit further than the point I'm at right now, but it's hard to argue against any of these.

People are complaining about the 4th line after this game as if Malkin wasn't on the ice for 3 goals against. If the bottom-6 chips in an extra goal or two late in that game, they still lose 4-3 because of those goals against.
 
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DesertedPenguin

DesertedPenguin

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Empoleon8771 said:
Yeah that has been a criticism of Sullivan's system for years, that's not anything new. But that doesn't necessarily explain what happened to cause it all to go to shit in January.
Click to expand...
That criticism was coming from fairly dumb players, though, who had an obvious beef. Like even Kapanen isn't the brightest bulb in the drawer.

Maybe the Pens just had enough smart players for a while that they could overcome that particular issue. Or the high end talent was so skilled that it provided a buffer, but now that they're older, that buffer is gone.
 
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Gurglesons

Gurglesons

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DesertedPenguin said:
That criticism was coming from fairly dumb players, though, who had an obvious beef. Like even Kapanen isn't the brightest bulb in the drawer.

Maybe the Pens just had enough smart players for a while that they could overcome that particular issue. Or the high end talent was so skilled that it provided a buffer, but now that they're older, that buffer is gone.
Click to expand...

Maybe Sullivan has sucked for years and anyone paying attention would realize it.
 
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Ryder71

Ryder71

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ChaosAgent said:
He was on the ice for 3 goals tonight. His team scored none of them.

My favorite player, but even the best players at 25-32 are likely to be meh at 37.
We can't credibly say this core is good by the standards of today's game. We have a bunch of same-y guys surrounding them, Tristan Jarry in goal, and oh by the way Letang continues to fall off a cliff.
The core also sucks at the PP, the one element of the game where their lack of foot speed shouldn't hinder them.

My preference is to fire Sully, but if the org is seriously too stubborn to do that I'd still move everything possible at the TDL. It's over.
Click to expand...
I agree it's over, I just think Geno beyond this game was a bright spot. I also agree that at their respective ages it could all down hill in a hurry.
 
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