GDT: Free Agent Frenzy 2022

[Buds17]

Kakkohnen getting 2.75 aav is pretty crazy

Yes and no. Hasn't played much but has been fairly effective whenever he has. SJ is looking to have a relatively inexpensive - and also a potentially inexperienced - tandem overall.

 

[jaric1862]

This simply doesn’t work with the cap. By trading Kerfoot, you still have to squeeze Sandin at $1.2M to fit a full roster under the cap by like 20,000. It’s why every dollar counts and why Dubas being so bad at negotiating cripples the team. No reason Engvall should get 2.25. Maybe 2. Lily should have gotten like 1.25 maybe that extra 400,000 could have been used to sign Sandin already and accrue cap space throughout the season but here we are

Not sure where you're getting those numbers.

Assuming the Leafs go 21 skaters as they have over the over the past few years.

With a Kerfoot trade the Leafs would have:

$3,519,384 to sign Sandin and a Kerfoot replacement.

Maybe you're thinking of a Holl trade?

In that case they would have $1,269,384 to sign Sandin with Benn as the 7th D.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Chychrun + Crouse
For
Sandin + Kerfoot + Hirvonen + 1st + 3rd

Holl for pick

Knies up after NCAA

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Crouse - Tavares - Robertson
Knies - Jarnkrok - Nylander
Engvall - Kampf - Aube-Kubel

Rielly - Chychrun
Muzzin - Brodie
Giordano - Liljgren

Murray
Samsonov

 

[Rielly4]

I think part of it is that there is a ton of leafs posters and they constantly see the leafs posters trying to ditch the same players which makes them assume they are very bad players.

Its not like most posters watch games of every team, they just watch their own team and see highlights and stats of other teams.

 

[GoodNewfieBoy]

Not sure where you're getting those numbers.

Assuming the Leafs go 21 skaters as they have over the over the past few years.

With a Kerfoot trade the Leafs would have:

$3,519,384 to sign Sandin and a Kerfoot replacement.

Maybe you're thinking of a Holl trade?

In that case they would have $1,269,384 to sign Sandin with Benn as the 7th D

I’m assuming no Holl trade and Benn is on the roster as he hasn’t been in the minors since 2013

 

[jaric1862]

I’m assuming no Holl trade and Benn is on the roster as he hasn’t been in the minors since 2013

If Kerfoot is the trade, I don't see the point in carrying two extra D.

Benn is likely an NHLer though, which means that the Holl trade is much more likely than the Kerfoot one.

 

[I am Canadian]

Holl is staying guys, you can't replace him. Boosh got 2.75M on the open market. Holl for 2M is still good value.

I don't like it either but it is what it is

 

[Fogelhund]

@NHLFlames

The Flames have filed for club-elected salary arbitration with Matthew Tkachuk. This provides us the opportunity to continue to work with his representatives towards a contractual resolution while removing the possibility of an offer sheet.


If it goes to Arb, Tkachuk gets to pick the term, 1 or two years. It’s really starting to look like he’s leaving at the end of that one year deal, or sooner if traded.

 

[LaPlante94]

Holl is staying guys, you can't replace him. Boosh got 2.75M on the open market. Holl for 2M is still good value.

I don't like it either but it is what it is

Sounds like even better trade value then.

 

[Stephen]

I’m guessing this much anticipated Holl/Kerfoot trade is not materializing anytime soon.

 

[Stephen]

Holl is staying guys, you can't replace him. Boosh got 2.75M on the open market. Holl for 2M is still good value.

I don't like it either but it is what it is

Ideally, you work the squeeze where another team in the market pays a nice return for Holl and then you go and find a guy late in the summer with no team to play on.

But it always feels like the Leafs are in the biggest rush to finalize things so I’m guessing other teams are slow rolling us on Holl/Kerfoot to trip us up from doing other stuff.

 

[Warden of the North]

I’m guessing this much anticipated Holl/Kerfoot trade is not materializing anytime soon.

And when it does is probably for future considerations or AHL players.

As I've detailed in the Dubas thread he just seems to let assets go without legitimate compensation.

I'll be very happy if he proves me wrong and actual talent or decent picks comes back

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If Kerfoot is the trade, I don't see the point in carrying two extra D.

Benn is likely an NHLer though, which means that the Holl trade is much more likely than the Kerfoot one.

Why? He hasn't played like one since he left Montreal 3 years ago.

We haven't learned anything if this guy is anything more than 8/9 on our depth chart, and even then, I expect him to be passed by guys like Kral fairly early in the season. Benn is this year's Biega, nothing more, and the only reason I can think of him getting a one-way deal (and same with Mete) is so we have zero risk of him getting claimed off of waivers.

If we are trading Holl, it is to get Sandin more ice time and we would sign a guy who can legitimately be a #7 defenseman (Hagg, de Haan, Subban, Stone, or Stralman).

 

[Stephen]

And when it does is probably for future considerations or AHL players.

As I've detailed in the Dubas thread he just seems to let assets go without legitimate compensation.

I'll be very happy if he proves me wrong and actual talent or decent picks comes back

My feeling is other teams are slow rolling the Leafs and we’ll be so impatient that we’ll be happy to move on while getting minimum value back. Meanwhile the lack of movement on those fronts keeps us from doing what we want in the free agent market which keeps the UFA supply plentiful.

 

[conFABulator]

Why? He hasn't played like one since he left Montreal 3 years ago.

We haven't learned anything if this guy is anything more than 8/9 on our depth chart, and even then, I expect him to be passed by guys like Kral fairly early in the season. Benn is this year's Biega, nothing more, and the only reason I can think of him getting a one-way deal (and same with Mete) is so we have zero risk of him getting claimed off of waivers.

If we are trading Holl, it is to get Sandin more ice time and we would sign a guy who can legitimately be a #7 defenseman (Hagg, de Haan, Subban, Stone, or Stralman).

Agreed. It has to be Holl to sign Sandin. That gives us 6 NHL d-men, plus Benn and Mete that we hope pass through waivers. As you said, there contract structures should help with this.

Does Jarnkrok possibly make Kerfoot a trade possibility now? I believe only do that if we can add two forwards that can play for us. Perhaps a middle six and a bottom six?

Bunting / Matthews / Marner
Robertson or UFA / Tavares / Nylander
Engvall / Kampf / Jarnkrok
Robertson or UFA / Gaudette or Steeves or UFA / Aubel-Kube

I don't really like those lines but they represent a depth chart. That second line is not defensively strong and the bottom six could include Anderson or Malgin. We may have training camp battles for the fourth line...which might not be a bad thing.

 

[showtime8]

Holl is staying guys, you can't replace him. Boosh got 2.75M on the open market. Holl for 2M is still good value.

I don't like it either but it is what it is

If Boosh got that coin, then I think you know how valuable Holl can be on the open market.

Move him for a pick or a good prospect.

Then you find a trading partner for Kerfoot to balance out the Leafs defense. Someone like Dillon with Winnipeg, Soucy with Seattle or a retained Roy with Los Angeles.

There are still guys available in free agency that can be had at a cheaper salary.

 

[613Leafer]

We're probably an off-season too early on the Muzzin trade. I think next off-season makes more sense to trade him

I think it's the opposite. Next offseason we're probably one too late, and need to pay a premium to move him like we did with Marleau (though not quite to that extent).

We've just seen too many physical players take a nosedive in their early 30s for me to trust Muzzin on that contract at this point, and the early warning signs were there last season.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If Boosh got that coin, then I think you know how valuable Holl can be on the open market.

Move him for a pick or a good prospect.

Then you find a trading partner for Kerfoot to balance out the Leafs defense. Someone like Dillon with Winnipeg, Soucy with Seattle or a retained Roy with Los Angeles.

There are still guys available in free agency that can be had at a cheaper salary.

Remember that Holl still has value to us, and it only really makes sense to move him unless we plan on using Sandin as a full time guy, or we like Stone/Stralman/Subban more than Holl for some reason.

I don't think a Holl move will be driven by clearing up cap space. Kerfoot makes a lot more sense in that regard. We have more internal prospect replacements for Kerfoot than we do for Holl, and there are a ton of solid bargain bin options which are solid bets to fill a role on this team (even if it is different than Kerfoot's was).

 

[2 Slick]

It's not like the Leafs have turned the dial enough to do any damage in the playoffs, they're essentially the exact same team with even more questionable goaltending and less depth on the bottom six. Holl staying or being traded is pretty negligible, as it won't change their favors much. Yeah, I'm being a downer, I have zero expectations headed into this season. I'll watch because I love my team, but realistically? They haven't improved any of their roster, not proven anyway.

 

[WTFMAN99]

My feeling is other teams are slow rolling the Leafs and we’ll be so impatient that we’ll be happy to move on while getting minimum value back. Meanwhile the lack of movement on those fronts keeps us from doing what we want in the free agent market which keeps the UFA supply plentiful.

I know people say Dubas isn't in the old boys club....eventually that shit starts to hurt your franchise if he can't establish relationships with his peers.

 

[showtime8]

Remember that Holl still has value to us, and it only really makes sense to move him unless we plan on using Sandin as a full time guy, or we like Stone/Stralman/Subban more than Holl for some reason.

I don't think a Holl move will be driven by clearing up cap space. Kerfoot makes a lot more sense in that regard. We have more internal prospect replacements for Kerfoot than we do for Holl, and there are a ton of solid bargain bin options which are solid bets to fill a role on this team (even if it is different than Kerfoot's was).

Holl has value to the Leafs based on a lower cap hit. IMO he's a good #6 on a team that is looking to contend. Problem is, the Leafs have their 3rd pairing. He's 1 year until free agency and there's no way he fits the cap situation next year based on comparable contracts.

Dubas tends to walk guys to free agency vs. trying to gain assets. Now I understand that you can't sign every guy that comes through the system and you have to let guys just walk away and find cheaper replacements. But IMO Dubas hasn't done a good enough job at turning over the roster to maintain the depth within the organization.

And I get it, the Leafs are in a win now mode. They shouldn't be loading up their prospects. But at some point, it would be okay to send out a piece and sign/trade for someone that can do a similar job.

In my previous post I mentioned that they trade Holl for a pick and a co-responding move would be to trade Kerfoot for a similar contract of a defenseman. So you gain a pick that can be used at the trade deadline. You trade Kerfoot and replace his contract with guys that are still out in free agency for next to nothing and you find yourself a defenseman that is more suited for playoff style hockey.

 

[andora]

Remember that Holl still has value to us, and it only really makes sense to move him unless we plan on using Sandin as a full time guy, or we like Stone/Stralman/Subban more than Holl for some reason.

If you can get any of them at a million they do the exact same job as holl but you save a buck

Stone maybe stralman might do league min

 

[Americanadian]

I’m guessing this much anticipated Holl/Kerfoot trade is not materializing anytime soon.

I've come to the conclusion that there's probably no market for them. It's a weird situation because they are useful players at their cap hit and it would be a clear loss of value to get rid of them for nothing. I could see them moving salary elsewhere (Nylander) and bringing back ELC(s) and keeping Kerfoot, Holl. Nylander has 2 fits - NJ and NSH, I'd target Tomasino+ or Mercer+. There's also the opportunity to move Muzzin but it's also probably a pure cap dump.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Holl has value to the Leafs based on a lower cap hit. IMO he's a good #6 on a team that is looking to contend. Problem is, the Leafs have their 3rd pairing. He's 1 year until free agency and there's no way he fits the cap situation next year based on comparable contracts.

Dubas tends to walk guys to free agency vs. trying to gain assets. Now I understand that you can't sign every guy that comes through the system and you have to let guys just walk away and find cheaper replacements. But IMO Dubas hasn't done a good enough job at turning over the roster to maintain the depth within the organization.

And I get it, the Leafs are in a win now mode. They shouldn't be loading up their prospects. But at some point, it would be okay to send out a piece and sign/trade for someone that can do a similar job.

In my previous post I mentioned that they trade Holl for a pick and a co-responding move would be to trade Kerfoot for a similar contract of a defenseman. So you gain a pick that can be used at the trade deadline. You trade Kerfoot and replace his contract with guys that are still out in free agency for next to nothing and you find yourself a defenseman that is more suited for playoff style hockey.

So as I said, we move him because we want to get Sandin ice time. We are not moving him to save cap or to trade a guy before his contract expires. Teams don't do that unless they have to.

 

[aingefan]

And when it does is probably for future considerations or AHL players.

As I've detailed in the Dubas thread he just seems to let assets go without legitimate compensation.

I'll be very happy if he proves me wrong and actual talent or decent picks comes back

He’s pretty consistently valued winning over futures, from day one.
Can’t blame that, even though I’d personally prefer a hybrid approach.